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Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'

18 messages · 16 participants · spans 3 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: eno's opinion of 'computer music' · the rantings of a bitter old man (was "eno's opinion of 'computer music'")
2001-10-28 18:30Peer [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
2001-10-28 19:01somrux Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
└─ 2001-10-28 20:34Danny [idm] The Rantings of a Bitter Old Man (was "Eno's opinion of 'computer music'")
└─ 2001-10-29 09:10Irene McC Re: [idm] The Rantings of a Bitter Old Man (was "Eno's opinion of 'computer music'")
└─ 2001-10-29 14:32Mxyzptlk Re: [idm] The Rantings of a Bitter Old Man (was "Eno's opinion of 'computer music'")
2001-10-28 19:45Aaron D Meyers Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
2001-10-28 23:08Ed Hall Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
2001-10-29 04:12Syntax Error the III Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
2001-10-29 05:29Kurt Hoffman Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
2001-10-29 13:07Hackett, Kelley M. RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
├─ 2001-10-29 15:12Pjotr Stam RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
└─ 2001-10-29 18:32Kurt Hoffman RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
2001-10-29 15:46Reading, John RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
└─ 2001-10-29 16:38Kent williams RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
2001-10-30 12:09no more rugby, ok? Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
└─ 2001-10-30 12:37Pjotr Stam Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
└─ 2001-10-30 13:41forel Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
2001-10-31 15:10Mark Kolmar Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
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2001-10-28 18:30Peerhttp://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,47670,00.html just came across this.. interesting
From:
Peer
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Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:30:39 -0800
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[idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <OE16B26tFW1MsB5ReKQ0000dce1@hotmail.com>
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,47670,00.html just came across this.. interesting article. i can't completely disagree with his opinion with regards to some of the current trends. but all computer-reliant music can't be so summarily categorized and dismissed, likening it to the wah-wah pedal. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-28 19:01somruxPeer wrote: i can't completely disagree with his opinion with regards to some of the curre
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somrux
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Cc:
Peer
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Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:01:40 -0600
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Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <000501c15fe2$fa58dd60$6402010a@soundwerkz>
Peer wrote: i can't completely disagree with his opinion with regards to some of the current trends. ---- Neither can I, but I disagree with about 90% of what I read in that article just now. You're right - Eno seemed to pretty much rake all computer-produced music into the 'it sucks' pile, which is just lame IMO. I figured that he'd be a bit more open-minded about it... Oh well. -somrux. http://www.somrux.com ---- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peer" <indecentrobotexposure@hotmail.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 12:30 PM Subject: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
quoted 7 lines > http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,47670,00.html > > > just came across this.. interesting article. i can't completely disagree > with his opinion with regards to some of the current trends. but all > computer-reliant music can't be so summarily categorized and dismissed, > likening it to the wah-wah pedal.
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2001-10-28 20:34DannyThat interview is just another example of Eno being bitter about the fact that he hasn't a
From:
Danny
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Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:34:46 -0500
Subject:
[idm] The Rantings of a Bitter Old Man (was "Eno's opinion of 'computer music'")
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <5.1.0.14.2.20011028141325.02507e48@mail.horsetrading.com>
That interview is just another example of Eno being bitter about the fact that he hasn't aged well. In the 70's, Eno was innovative.. but somewhere along the line (I'd say around the mid-to-late 80's), he lost his touch. There was a time when he was cutting-edge, changing the direction of the music world.. but for the past 15 years, he's been trendhopping and playing catch-up (see also: David Bowie). New styles come along and he just can't adapt. He talked a bunch of shit about how mechanical and soulless 80's pop was.. but listen to his 1990 album, "Wrong Way Up". Most of it sounds like it was recorded with him and John Cale singing over demo tunes from a $59.95 Casio keyboard at BestBuy. Nice hypocrisy, Brian. Just because you suck at something doesn't make it an inferior style of music. Brian Eno just isn't relevant anymore. Unfortunately, it seems like he'll be the last person to realize that. Quit your playa hating, Mr. Eno, and just quietly go away. At 01:01 PM 10/28/2001 -0600, somrux wrote:
quoted 4 lines Neither can I, but I disagree with about 90% of what I read in that article>Neither can I, but I disagree with about 90% of what I read in that article >just now. You're right - Eno seemed to pretty much rake all >computer-produced music into the 'it sucks' pile, which is just lame IMO. I >figured that he'd be a bit more open-minded about it... Oh well.
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2001-10-29 09:10Irene McCOn 28 Oct 2001, at 15:34, Danny wrote: > but listen to his 1990 album, "Wrong Way Up". You
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Irene McC
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Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:10:20 +0200
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Re: [idm] The Rantings of a Bitter Old Man (was "Eno's opinion of 'computer music'")
Reply to:
[idm] The Rantings of a Bitter Old Man (was "Eno's opinion of 'computer music'")
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On 28 Oct 2001, at 15:34, Danny wrote:
quoted 1 line but listen to his 1990 album, "Wrong Way Up".> but listen to his 1990 album, "Wrong Way Up".
You're right - most of it's total cr*p, except for Footsteps, which still rates as 3 minutes of bliss in my book, even now.
quoted 1 line Quit your playa hating> Quit your playa hating
Can somebody please explain this expression to me? Sorry, I'm of German origin and live in South Africa, and just haven't ever quite understood what this means. Thank you! I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-29 14:32Mxyzptlk> > > Quit your playa hating > >Can somebody please explain this expression to me? Sorry,
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Mxyzptlk
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,
Date:
Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:32:06 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] The Rantings of a Bitter Old Man (was "Eno's opinion of 'computer music'")
Reply to:
Re: [idm] The Rantings of a Bitter Old Man (was "Eno's opinion of 'computer music'")
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quoted 6 lines Quit your playa hating> > > Quit your playa hating > >Can somebody please explain this expression to me? Sorry, I'm of >German origin and live in South Africa, and just haven't ever quite >understood what this means.
I take it to be a great example of dramatic irony. It works like this : when someone says something you don't like or (more to the point) dismisses something in which you find value, you accuse them of "hating" - which, of course, is a major violation of the new moral code in a world where *everything* must be embraced with fervor (we do SO love these days, do we not?). Never mind that this is a genuinely silly way to define "hating". What's far more interesting is that the person lobbing the accusation is (using the same skewed understanding of "hate") certainly at least as guilty of the unconscionable crime as the accused and should also lose points for kowtowing to the concept and/or jumping on the trendy-term bandwagon. Having said all of that, allow me to clarify that in so doing I have not "hated" anyone here. I didn't even go back through my trash to see who it was who used to the phrase in question - I am merely commenting on the use of the phrase per se as I see it. Yes. I love everyone and everything. Dammit. Next time around I shall discuss the etymological significance of "playa" as it appears on the hermeneutical horizon we call email. loving and not playing, jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-28 19:45Aaron D MeyersYea... seriously. Eno is making some pretty sweeping statements in that article. How can y
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Aaron D Meyers
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somrux ,
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Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:45:12 -0500
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Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <16526ed16560b0.16560b016526ed@homemail.nyu.edu>
Yea... seriously. Eno is making some pretty sweeping statements in that article. How can you just dismiss such a huge catalog of music. And where does that leave us people who like that stuff? I guess we just don't understand what good music is. I think he's just jealous because he could never make Go Plastic and his generative tracks probably don't hold a candle to Confield. -Aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: "somrux" <bishop@somrux.com> Date: Sunday, October 28, 2001 2:01 pm Subject: Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
quoted 41 lines Peer wrote:> Peer wrote: > i can't completely disagree with his opinion with regards to some > of the > current trends. > ---- > Neither can I, but I disagree with about 90% of what I read in > that article > just now. You're right - Eno seemed to pretty much rake all > computer-produced music into the 'it sucks' pile, which is just > lame IMO. I > figured that he'd be a bit more open-minded about it... Oh well. > > -somrux. > http://www.somrux.com > ---- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peer" <indecentrobotexposure@hotmail.com> > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 12:30 PM > Subject: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music' > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,47670,00.html > > > > > > just came across this.. interesting article. i can't > completely disagree > > with his opinion with regards to some of the current trends. > but all > > computer-reliant music can't be so summarily categorized and > dismissed,> likening it to the wah-wah pedal. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2001-10-28 23:08Ed HallI think you folks are being a bit too thin-skinned on this one. Eno is talking about the s
From:
Ed Hall
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Imitate Discreet Music
Date:
Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:08:04 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <200110282308.f9SN84s53282@screech.weirdnoise.com>
I think you folks are being a bit too thin-skinned on this one. Eno is talking about the state of pop music in general, not just (or even particularly) computer-focused genres. And he's right. Turn your radio on and give a listen. Or do you really think that the largest users of cubase and the like are still the IDM crowd? And he's right on another thing. You aren't likely to create anything of lasting value on the "cutting edge." You're much more likely to do that long after the "cutting-edge" status has passed, and the strengths and weaknesses of your tools are well-explored, by both you and by listeners. The excitement of novel sounds lasts for only a little while, but while it lasts it conceals a multitude of defects. Whether a piece of music will continue to engage body and soul once its sounds become familiar is the issue (for me at least), and I'd claim that the over- whelming bulk of computer-generated music will turn out to have nothing but surface attraction that will wear off once the next new round of tools emerge. (And that's entirely OK, I suppose, if momentary novelty is all that you're looking for in music.) Whether Eno or his music is relevant any longer is a question I'm sure the list will explore ad nauseum, but that doesn't change the fact that most computer-generated music is guilty as charged. -Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-29 04:12Syntax Error the III"long after the "cutting-edge" status has passed" thats one view of cutting edge sure, but
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Syntax Error the III
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Imitate Discreet Music
Date:
Mon, 29 Oct 2001 04:12:43 -0000
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Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <004601c1602f$f6260220$4d6787d9@diakkal>
"long after the "cutting-edge" status has passed" thats one view of cutting edge sure, but people can make cutting edge music based on old technology. analog, hint hint ;) some music seems to push a boundry further, i would call that cutting edge. rather than music made with the latest gizmos. and the tracks that push may not end up been tunes that age well, they usually dont. but they still have a place in the history as the tracks that made us all go wtf! and got me excited at least... cheers, Syntax. http://www.electronicbrain.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-29 05:29Kurt HoffmanEd Hall wrote: >And he's right on another thing. You aren't likely to create anything >of
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Kurt Hoffman
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Ed Hall
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Date:
Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:29:14 -0500
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Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <p05100302b8028f58b33f@[66.114.245.52]>
Ed Hall wrote:
quoted 2 lines And he's right on another thing. You aren't likely to create anything>And he's right on another thing. You aren't likely to create anything >of lasting value on the "cutting edge."
True, but only because few people create anything of lasting value. You aren't likely to create anything of lasting value by tagging along on some established style either. Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Cage, Stockhausen, Xenakis come quickly to mind as having been on the cutting edge of music and making lasting contributions. being on the cutting edge can be a side effect of creative, even profound, thinking. k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-29 13:07Hackett, Kelley M.>>True, but only because few people create anything of lasting value. You aren't likely to
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Hackett, Kelley M.
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'Kurt Hoffman' , Ed Hall
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Date:
Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:07:58 -0500
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RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <154A66C813EED311AECB00508B8B8D09030F587A@iupuimbx06.uits.iupui.edu>
quoted 1 line True, but only because few people create anything of lasting value.>>True, but only because few people create anything of lasting value.
You aren't likely to create anything of lasting value by tagging along on some established style either. Part A is true, but part B is false. Part A: Look, its that same ole chime from me all the time, most IDM(and YES its a sweeping indictment) aint shit by itself, or compared to say older music! It has a shelf life of a year at best. That's probably why most of you dont talk about older music by IDM artists that was good when you first heard it but now it just gets dusty in your collection! Fact of that matter is that Eno is quite true in his assertion, most of the music out now aint shit, has no lasting power and its all electronic and thought based. Re-read the quote from Dego and Marc, music should be an emotional canvass, and computers dont have these. The programmer gets caught up in the silly notion of doing something better...or...taking a "new" approach..... Awwh fiddle sticks, if you new how horrible the shit sounds to most soul-full ears, you'd stop and take up butterfly catching...... Part B. Quite the contrary, I have said and have heard from musicians in Detroit that they like the different takes on Detroit Techno and Techno in general.....and those "takes"(some of them) still have the soul-full edge that's needed to get a crowd hopin or chill'n. Lastly, and I hate to cause a riot, but forget about it! Most IDM music--totally computer based with no expressed emotions--is good for a little while, but last about as long as it takes to get to the center of Tootsie roll tootsie pop(ahhh 1, ahhhh two..........:D!) BTW, I have been eating "Midnight Rendezvous" by Other People Place for breakfast each morning....and I still cant get enough of it! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-29 15:12Pjotr Stam> Lastly, and I hate to cause a riot, but forget about it! Most > IDM > music--totally com
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Pjotr Stam
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Hackett, Kelley M. , 'Kurt Hoffman' , Ed Hall
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Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:12:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject:
RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
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RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <20011029151212.48177.qmail@web14707.mail.yahoo.com>
quoted 8 lines Lastly, and I hate to cause a riot, but forget about it! Most> Lastly, and I hate to cause a riot, but forget about it! Most > IDM > music--totally computer based with no expressed emotions--is > good for a > little while, but last about as long as it takes to get to the > center of > Tootsie roll tootsie pop(ahhh 1, ahhhh two..........:D!) >
Totally DISagree with the long-lasting point as well as with the 'electronic music has no emotion' point-of-view! It really comes down to where you get your emotion from. I get much more emotion out of electronic-based music than from ANY other genre. I also get more out of the music than out of singing for that matter. I still listen to loads of older 'IDM' and I often prefer it to a lot of current stuff (and this isn't some nostalgia sickness either). Why do people always think computer-made music contains no emotion? A guitar doesn't contain any emotion either...it's what the musician does with it and what the listener does with it, that gives it life you know. Pjotr The Netherlands ===== Pjotr Stam || teccie@mindless.com http://www.fredscape.com Den Haag, The Netherlands "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." ____________________________________________________________ Nokia Game is on again. Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new all media adventure before November 3rd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-29 18:32Kurt Hoffman>music should be an >emotional canvass, and computers dont have these. computers, however
From:
Kurt Hoffman
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Hackett, Kelley M. , Ed Hall
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0500
Subject:
RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
Reply to:
RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <p05100305b80332a1fc42@[66.114.245.52]>
quoted 2 lines music should be an>music should be an >emotional canvass, and computers dont have these.
computers, however lifeless, are tools, just as much as drumsticks and K-Y jelly. emotions are fueled by minds, which can be profoundly moved by stimuli as chilly and abstract as printed text.
quoted 2 lines BTW, I have been eating "Midnight Rendezvous" by Other People Place for>BTW, I have been eating "Midnight Rendezvous" by Other People Place for >breakfast each morning....and I still cant get enough of it!
like that guy doesn't use a sequencer?
quoted 2 lines music out now aint shit, has no lasting power and its all electronic and>music out now aint shit, has no lasting power and its all electronic and >thought based.
odd to hear this assertion at a moment where electronic, computer-driven music dominates dance clubs. i think this epoch in music will go down like many others. It'll fall from fashion, sound awful for awhile, only to sound fascinatingly 'of its time' later on. (Ah! the music of the Pre-Nuclear Winter era!! so charming -- you can almost hear the sunlight!) for those of us living through the era, we can understand how it all fits together in a way that will be unavailable to future generations. we can appreciate the transient contributions of minor artists who will doubtless be forgotten later. there's no reason to be cynical about music of passing interest. what the hell, it's good to be alive. k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-29 15:46Reading, John> I think he's just jealous > because he could never make Go Plastic and his generative tr
From:
Reading, John
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Date:
Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:46:14 -0500
Subject:
RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <5E52E5CBD30CE84C8C8F4DA70881A9DC1DEAE2@excny2.corp.pxcm.net>
quoted 3 lines I think he's just jealous> I think he's just jealous > because he could never make Go Plastic and his generative tracks > probably don't hold a candle to Confield.
LOL! seriously though, I think Eno is generalizing way too much, however; it's nice to hear a dismissal of electronic music from the completely polar opposite of the tired "but it's not live" or "it's all just computers." At least Eno understands that it is simply another tool, like a flute or timpani. "attend to details at an infinitely fine level whilst ignoring the macro" I think is a fairly decent argument about any problem that gearhead types can develop, same can be said for music fashionistas with their squaking guitars. Personally, all my favortie records manage to completely transcend my very well-school, technical brain and simply give me a macroscopic view of the artist's vision. BOC or Scott Heren's work or maurmari rarely make me think of computers, quite the opposite. sorry Eno. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-29 16:38Kent williamsOn Mon, 29 Oct 2001, Reading, John wrote: > > > I think he's just jealous > > because he c
From:
Kent williams
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Reading, John
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Date:
Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:38:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
Reply to:
RE: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.1011029102537.28425D-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Mon, 29 Oct 2001, Reading, John wrote:
quoted 12 lines I think he's just jealous> > > I think he's just jealous > > because he could never make Go Plastic and his generative tracks > > probably don't hold a candle to Confield. > > LOL! > > seriously though, I think Eno is generalizing way too much, however; > it's nice to hear a dismissal of electronic music from the completely > polar opposite of the tired "but it's not live" or "it's all just > computers." >
I wonder just how much computer generated music he's heard. And he misjudges how the best practitioners use the tools. What he says describes perfectly things like BT's work with Britney and Boy Bands. Eno described his modus operandi about as well as BT did himself recently in 'Keyboard Magazine.' But there are people (Kid606 comes to mind) that aren't satisfied with how they've built a track unless it's susceptible to multiple gestural inputs that interact in unpredictable ways. The music ends up barely under control of the musician, and it could go hideously wrong at any moment. And some of Kit Clayton's stuff has the same chaotic edge to it. Just as walking is a form of controlled falling, his tracks illustrate how machinery threatening to fall apart can be form of dancing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-30 12:09no more rugby, ok?i can certainly understand the assertion that a lot of today's computer music is utter shi
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no more rugby, ok?
To:
Date:
Tue, 30 Oct 2001 04:09:29 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <DAV134ddqN19bBLmUjS0001775e@hotmail.com>
i can certainly understand the assertion that a lot of today's computer music is utter shit. Honestly though, it's not much of a groundbreaking, new or even interesting statement to make. a lot of the music of any genre and any time period is utter shit. it may not be an opinion which i'm brave enough to embrace as being my own, but it's worth looking at the possibility that perhaps things are about the same as they have been since the first developments of human culture and art. there is a lot of shit and a little bit of interesting stuff going on. when it comes down to it, it's the honest effort to do something interesting that seems to make the difference. i'm almost tempted to think that the main difference is in trying to do something which is interesting to one's own attentions rather than trying to do something which one would assume could be interesting or pleasing to a potential audience. (the stunningly pure attempt to keep yourself from being bored.) aside from that, in terms of breaking new ground... i think willingness to experiment and misuse current technology and structure is key. once again, just a viewpoint... not necessarily one which i agree with completely... (disclaimers, disclaimers... lack of confidence can lead to more expansive vistas...) i'm sure everyone knows analog purists. i had a discussion with an analog purist recently. a friend of mine. a good part of the gist of his argument seemed almost to be a righteous indignation at the fact that all the experimentation he did for years... hooking two four tracks together, making loops, playing things backwards and at altered speeds.. etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum... all these things can now be emulated by the a few keystrokes or mouse clicks on a computer... i also went through years of experimentation on the analog front... using cheap cassette four-track recorders hooked together in odd configurations with guitar pedals... i think the difference is in doing what you can with the technology and in trying to do more than you can do or should be able to do with the technology. to try to misuse it to interesting or intriguing effect. you can do the same thing with computers... just on different and new levels. thus experimentation evolves with new and old technology. (in my opinion.) granted, a lot of this can be considered to be pre-compositional. which gets us into the context which i think eno was in with his statements. sonic experimentation is very musical by itself. but it is not what everyone considers to be cohesive "music". traditionalists (of which, in this context, Eno could definitely be considered) demand that "music" has to have "macro" compositional aspects... certain gestures (cliches?) which indicate compositional development... almost like structures in poetry... sonnets... haiku... or structures in pop songs... verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, etc... repetition almost always seems key in this definition of music. this is why perhaps eno wouldn't like otto von schirach's "8,000 B.C." or any number of other records for that matter. rarely is Eno described as a traditionalist. i've never spoken with Eno. but the description seems fitting here. on a certain level. perhaps, if one were to desire to achieve merit in both worlds, one would have to experiment long enough and thoroughly enough that the experimentation becomes an integral part of the compositional process. i think this happens on its own. unless someone is simply trying to emulate the sound of another artist. which happens frequently. very frequently. i also don't think there is anything wrong with set structures. many people view them as a "cop-out" i can understand that viewpoint and even agree with it in a lot of instances... but i think structures can also be viewed as a challenge. taking an idea which is individualized and experimental (thus somewhat volatile) and applying a preset format or structure to it can have incredibly interesting results. maybe it's just this: the less important thing is HOW you make music. the more important thing is THAT you make music. interesting music. selfishly interesting music. or maybe i've got all my hypotheses entirely backward. either way, it's all bullshit rhetoric, opinion, and philosophy. anyway. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-30 12:37Pjotr Stam"selfishly interesting music" What a term (especially if you've read the post in which it'
From:
Pjotr Stam
To:
no more rugby, ok? ,
Date:
Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:37:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <20011030123717.97713.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com>
"selfishly interesting music" What a term (especially if you've read the post in which it's stated)!! Much better than IDM imho. (and I'm not being sarcastic either, I mean it!) ===== Pjotr Stam || teccie@mindless.com http://www.fredscape.com Den Haag, The Netherlands "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." ____________________________________________________________ Nokia Game is on again. Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new all media adventure before November 3rd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-30 13:41forelI think what everyone is missing in this discussion is that Eno is not talking about IDM o
From:
forel
To:
Date:
Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:41:25 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <B8041820.54DB%forel@mac.com>
I think what everyone is missing in this discussion is that Eno is not talking about IDM or electronic music exclusively, he is talking about computer based production of music. I remember an anecdote from and article earlier this year about an installation he had done in a museum. It described very accurately I think what he expressed in the article that started this thread. Eno was in a recording studio where someone was producing and album (I don't think they said exactly whose album or what he was doing on it), and the producers have this guitarist come in one day for a song where they needed some guitar. So the guitarist is in the studio, tuning up. Unbeknownst to him, the sound engineer was recording the sounds of him tuning his guitar. When the kid finished tuning up, the sound guy said that they didn't need him anymore as they could recreate his part from what he had just recorded on to the computer. Eno apparently flew off the handle. I think these are the sort of things he is referring to when he describes computer music as emotionless or too technical. -- forel elitist fuck --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-31 15:10Mark KolmarEno seems to discount the ability of software other than Sseyo Koan to produce random/stoc
From:
Mark Kolmar
To:
IDM List
Date:
Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:10:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Eno's opinion of 'computer music'
permalink · <Pine.WNT.4.21.0110310859520.-523755@endgame>
Eno seems to discount the ability of software other than Sseyo Koan to produce random/stochastic effects. Also sounds like he would like to keep himself stuck in the world of conventional scales. Eno's music will sound like the 70s. No shame in that, however. Nearly impossible to avoid actually. --Mark __ http://www.burningrome.com/ > MP3s; hear RealAudio first --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org