IDM Mailing Archive

2001-06-26 04:25Yulia Matusovmaybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity... where did the nam

From:: Yulia Matusov <ulia5@hotmail.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:25:53 -0700
Subject:: [idm] Trivia questions

maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity... where did the name Intelligent Dance Music come from? I personally wasnt even aware of the name until about 1 and 1/2 years ago, always called it 'abstract' or 'experimental' electronica or used less general titles... Anyway, the name kind of annoys me, its like saying "we are intelligent and you are not," but I do reluctantly end up using it, still though, who thought of this and can we please make up something else? Or is it too late? Was it a marketing gimmick? in other questions, has anyone heard of the kind of electronic music called 'hypno'? Maybe I am just really behind the times, but today was the second time I heard of this mysterious genre of music and was too intimidated by the sheer confidence of the person saying it, to ask. So what better place to do it then a 10000000000 person e-mail list? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 14:20Kent williamsOn Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Yulia Matusov wrote: > maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i

From:: Kent williams <kent@avalon.net>
To:: Yulia Matusov <ulia5@hotmail.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:20:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions
Reply to:: [idm] Trivia questions

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Yulia Matusov wrote:

quoted 3 lines maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity...

> maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity... > where did the name Intelligent Dance Music come from? >

http://music.hyperreal.org/lists/idm/info.html Even at the beginning it was generally considered something of a misnomer. The mantra "IDM is a mailing list, not a musical style" hasn't been effective in keeping it from general usage. In fact magazines like Urb persist in using it as a pidgeonhole that seems to cover anything that isn't straight up dance floor material. Given a choice "Electronic Listening Music" or even "Experimental Electronic Music" would be more appropriate. Even "Electronica" is better, though that term seems to mean Fat Boy Slim and the Prodigy. Even weirder, "Electronica" was an Internet mailing list before it was a genre name. That list was a companion list of Analog Heaven, and has been superseded by the more appropriately named "Digital Hell." Perhaps it is just my natural monomania, but I seem to remember suggesting 'Electronica' when we were casting about for a name. As uncomfortable as any reasonable person is with the idea of 'Intelligent' music, as opposed to the other sort, one should simply accept the fact that it's completely out of our hands. IDM, as a term, is here to stay. But it's just a token, a signifier. The cool thing about the music (and the occasionally cool thing about this list) is that it's all about music that actively resists silly pidgeonholing. It's just as appropriate here to discuss Bowery Electric as Francis Dhomont. Or Aphex Twin and Kid 606, or Emmanuel Gottsching and Jimi Tenor. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 14:37Future Relic> As uncomfortable as any reasonable person is with the idea of 'Intelligent' > music, as

From:: Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com>
To:: Kent williams <kent@avalon.net>, Idm <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:37:42 +0100
Subject:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions

quoted 4 lines As uncomfortable as any reasonable person is with the idea of 'Intelligent'

> As uncomfortable as any reasonable person is with the idea of 'Intelligent' > music, as opposed to the other sort, one should simply accept the fact > that it's completely out of our hands. IDM, as a term, is here to > stay. But it's just a token, a signifier.

If only we could get it to be out-dated. Much like the term "Information Superhighway". It was *the* buzz word back in the day, but now it's laughable. Perhaps the term "IDM" could become such a relic of the past. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 14:43Adam Piontek--- Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com> wrote: > If only we could get it to be out-date

From:: Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:43:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions

--- Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 6 lines If only we could get it to be out-dated. Much like

> If only we could get it to be out-dated. Much like > the term "Information > Superhighway". It was *the* buzz word back in the > day, but now it's > laughable. Perhaps the term "IDM" could become such > a relic of the past.

Yeah, like rock, classical, jazz, soul, alternative, indie, etc etc. Face it, "IDM" has culturally little in common with "info. hiway" and will not disappear. Give it up and enjoy the music. Scatter those ashes. -Adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 14:25Future RelicDance Music is the worst category they could have filed it in. I would more compare it mor

From:: Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com>
To:: Yulia Matusov <ulia5@hotmail.com>, Idm <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:25:23 +0100
Subject:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions
Reply to:: [idm] Trivia questions

Dance Music is the worst category they could have filed it in. I would more compare it more to an electronic symphony than to dance. As for the Intelligent part...surely there is a better, less stuck-up word for it. I too feel stupid calling it "Intelligent Dance Music". Surely if everyone on this list started calling it something different it would catch on. After all, if the artists don't want to name their category then surely the fans should be able to, and not the marketing drones. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 14:41Adam PiontekAs if this subject hasn't been done to death before on this list... Anyways, in response t

From:: Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:41:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions

As if this subject hasn't been done to death before on this list... Anyways, in response to: --- Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 4 lines Dance Music is the worst category they could have

> Dance Music is the worst category they could have > filed it in. I would more > compare it more to an electronic symphony than to > dance. As for the

No no no no no. Context. Dance music goes boom boom. Some people wanted more. Hence, "intelligent" dance music. Now those people (mostly this list) have grown up and enjoy a lot of esoteric or eclectic, vaguely related stuff. That's all there is to it. "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative, simply because most of the stuff at the root of IDM is still heavily dance-related, be it hip-hop, house, garage, d'n'b, or in some people's cases, waltz. It might be a drab name for other specific subgenres of music, but I think everything that's available at this point already has quite appropriate nomenclature. Now, can we stop beating this dead, buried, exhumed, autopsied, buried again, exhumed again, cremated and sifted-through-the-ashes topic and finally scatter it to the four corners of the earth? Please? -Adam PS - and I'm sorry if I've missspellled 'exhumed' :P __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 15:01Future Relic> "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative, > simply because most of the stuff at t

From:: Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com>
To:: Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>, Idm <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:01:14 +0100
Subject:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions

quoted 4 lines "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative,

> "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative, > simply because most of the stuff at the root of IDM is > still heavily dance-related, be it hip-hop, house, > garage, d'n'b, or in some people's cases, waltz.

Hmm, but it does have roots in the modern classical music too. Most notably Schoenberg's dodecaphonic stuff of the early 1900s. Er, check out this link a friend gave me a while back: http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=344742 I'm not saying this is the root, but it's certainly seems a more fitting ancestor than rave music. PS: "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative, I agree. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 15:22Adam Piontek--- Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hmm, but it does have roots in the mod

From:: Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:22:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions

--- Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 3 lines Hmm, but it does have roots in the modern classical

> Hmm, but it does have roots in the modern classical > music too. Most notably > Schoenberg's dodecaphonic stuff of the early 1900s.

...

quoted 3 lines I'm not saying this is the root, but it's certainly

> I'm not saying this is the root, but it's certainly > seems a more fitting > ancestor than rave music.

I'm quite aware of the long history of experimental music in general. "IDM" however, is a term for a more specific cultural and musical genre with a more specific history and context. My understanding has come to be: while there has always been experimental music (and everything else!) all the way back into the dawn of time, everyone has to "discover" it for themselves, and "IDM" specifically came out of people (chiefly british) involved with rave and otherwise electronic dance music. They wanted "more" in the music, and began creating and seeking it out. It's the drive for more that leads people to find things that are already there, hence, discovering experimental music from the "classical" institutions, and other sources. Over time, some people might come to "IDM" through other means, i.e. classical people becoming interested in what another community is doing, and over further time they may become meshed together and the next generation will have to discover it all for themselves. But "IDM" itself came from this list and disenchanted ravers of the very early 90's. "disenchanted ravers" might be a bad term, but that's my simple understanding. Everything else influences, dance is the root. -Adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 15:22Chris WestAlthough it may be true that IDM is probably here to stay, that doesn't mean we can't get

From:: Chris West <cpwest@qwest.net>
To:: Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com>, Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>, Idm <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:22:45 -0700
Subject:: RE: [idm] Trivia questions
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Trivia questions

Although it may be true that IDM is probably here to stay, that doesn't mean we can't get to work coming up with sub-genres. Hell look at trance: You have NRG, Fluffy, Psy, Goa, Israeli, Prog, and many many more (I think I even heard what could be called Intelligent Video Game Trance Music this weekend :) IDM is definitely breaking off into its own little areas. You have the hip-hop side of things, the melodic mellow stuff, crunchy bits with or without melodic elements, heavy crunchy discordant melodic emotive beats etc, etc... I personally really enjoy the melodic, crunchy side of things as well as heavy discordant beats, and I tend to mostly play tracks like this when I spin. I've been wracking my brain for awhile trying to figure out a name for this possible sub genre. That way I would be able to sidestep the IDM label without actually trying to replace something that is now so firmly rooted. I still haven't come up with anything that I like a whole heck of a lot. A friend of mine came up with pleasure crunch and symphonic crunch. I kinda like those, but I am still looking... -Chris --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 15:52Adam Piontek--- Chris West <cpwest@qwest.net> wrote: > I personally really enjoy the melodic, crunchy

From:: Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: [idm] IDM sub-genres: variety is nice: Record Camp is nicer
Reply to:: RE: [idm] Trivia questions

--- Chris West <cpwest@qwest.net> wrote:

quoted 10 lines I personally really enjoy the melodic, crunchy side

> I personally really enjoy the melodic, crunchy side > of things as well as > heavy discordant beats, and I tend to mostly play > tracks like this when I > spin. I've been wracking my brain for awhile trying > to figure out a name for > this possible sub genre. That way I would be able to > sidestep the IDM label > without actually trying to replace something that is > now so firmly rooted.

I like the fact that the label is more generic and vague. I like the fact that we're all open to so much, as opposed only listening to "crunchy melodic trance-hop and only in the key of A sharp". Furthermore, when I go out, I prefer to hear a mix filled with variety. I respect the ability to mix a lot of stuff together and still make it sound good, plus it keeps my attention. When it all just goes BOOM BOOM or SKITTER SKITTER my attention span drifts and why would I want to pay you to do that? That's why I really like the Record Camp folks at Level X in Brooklyn (when I get off my lazy butt and go, which hasn't been very recently unfortunately). They seem to play a nice mix of a lot of stuff, and I like it all. Don't underestimate your audience or yourself and play such a narrow style... unless, of course, I suppose, you know that's exactly what everyone wants, and you want it too... Whatever -Adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 17:18Chris WestI almost think you are playing devil's avocado with this one Adam, but hey, I'll bite... >

From:: Chris West <cpwest@qwest.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>, Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:18:28 -0700
Subject:: Re: [idm] IDM sub-genres: variety is nice: Record Camp is nicer

I almost think you are playing devil's avocado with this one Adam, but hey, I'll bite...

quoted 6 lines Furthermore, when I go out, I prefer to hear a mix

>Furthermore, when I go out, I prefer to hear a mix >filled with variety. I respect the ability to mix a >lot of stuff together and still make it sound good, >plus it keeps my attention. When it all just goes >BOOM BOOM or SKITTER SKITTER my attention span drifts >and why would I want to pay you to do that?

I think that creating sub genres isn't going to decrease the variety you are going to hear when playing out. That depends more on the dj or musician as opposed to what the music is called. One can play more than one sub genre; just because a sound has been further classified, does not mean there can be no inter-mixing. I guess my feeling is that IDM is getting to be an awfully large playing field; it encompasses a lot of different types of music. There is a pretty darn big gap between Arovane and Venetian Snares and I think it is reasonable to discuss different ways to classify the obvious musical branching within the genre. -c --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 22:56ugly and mean> I think that creating sub genres isn't going to decrease the > variety you are going to

From:: ugly and mean <ugly_and_mean@yahoo.com>
To:: <cpwest@qwest.net>, <idm@hyperreal.org>, Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:56:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: [idm] IDM sub-genres: variety is nice: Record Camp is nicer
Reply to:: Re: [idm] IDM sub-genres: variety is nice: Record Camp is nicer

quoted 11 lines I think that creating sub genres isn't going to decrease the

> I think that creating sub genres isn't going to decrease the > variety you are going to hear when playing out. That depends more > on the dj or musician as opposed to what the music is called. One > can play more than one sub genre; just because a sound has been > further classified, does not mean there can be no inter-mixing. > > I guess my feeling is that IDM is getting to be an awfully large > playing field; it encompasses a lot of different types of music. > There is a pretty darn big gap between Arovane and Venetian Snares > and I think it is reasonable to discuss different ways to classify > the obvious musical branching within the genre.

I'll never understand why people that listen to experimental mostly instrumental music insist on coming up with names to describe it. Let's face it, most people that don't live in big progressive cities with great music scenes are going to find their Autechre in the "rock/pop" section at the record store anyways. The only people that should be worrying about naming genres are people that work at record stores and can't figure out where to file music. As far as that goes, I like the way Rasputin out here in the bay area does it; they just have a big section called 'avant garde' with everything from Convertor to Monolake to Painkiller to Kid 606 in it. That's a fun section to look through. Some people might disagree with me on this point, but I've always looked at it like this: Experimental electronic music has been around for, what, 60 years? I'm thinking back to like John Cage (who I admit I know nothing about). To try to turn 60 years of experimentation into a genre or category seems like a real mistake to me. It also seems like something that could hinder progress. I wouldn't have a problem with people trying to make a genre out of a certain type of IDM (distorted breakbeats, glitches, sweet child-like melodies) which is a very distinct and easily recognizable sound, but it seems ridiculous to try lump that stuff with Oval, or Autechre, or minimal stuff like Brinkmann or Monolake. I'd advocate seperating what I basically see as Aphex Twin wannabe music from everything else and just calling that stuff "IDM" and leaving the rest of it in the misc avant garde section before trying to lump all types of non-commercial electronic music into one pile. Then again, opinions are like... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-26 19:20o O>I think that creating sub genres isn't going to decrease the >variety you are going to he

From:: o O <endojo@hotmail.com>
To:: <cpwest@qwest.net>, <idm@hyperreal.org>, <apiontek@yahoo.com>
Date:: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 19:20:53 -0000
Subject:: Re: [idm] IDM sub-genres: variety is nice: Record Camp is nicer

quoted 13 lines I think that creating sub genres isn't going to decrease the

>I think that creating sub genres isn't going to decrease the >variety you are going to hear when playing out. That depends more >on the dj or musician as opposed to what the music is called. One >can play more than one sub genre; just because a sound has been >further classified, does not mean there can be no inter-mixing. > >I guess my feeling is that IDM is getting to be an awfully large >playing field; it encompasses a lot of different types of music. >There is a pretty darn big gap between Arovane and Venetian Snares >and I think it is reasonable to discuss different ways to classify >the obvious musical branching within the genre. > >-c

not only reasonable but inevitable. as more of us start to become interested in petting zoos sooner or later someone will desire an evil petting zoo. for me tho this is what interested me in "IDM" before i ever knew what it was called; the potential for just about anything to occur in music. it incorporates any style or genre imaginable thru means of sampling or interpolating and it seems to be striving for something unheard and new. now of course this is also a source of much disdain as in its woven in the fabric of itsd push to reinvent music there is a thread of elitism running thru its multifaceted tapestry. but i fear this is probably the case with any attempts at creating something new. however i hope that this is also intrinzicly balanced with a healthy respect for all the other artforms it is being built apon. classification is really just to make things easier to convey so even tho i might think a genre name is completely absurd if it identifies its subject accuratley enough for me to describe it then i suppose its a lesser evil petting zoo. for instance_ rock music. sounds silly. rocks? making music? or alternative music. alternative to what? all other music? then isnt all music alternative? or country music. this implies it was made in a country. almost all music on earth is made in some country or other so i guess if it is then its country music. and i know for sure that i have made some pretty stupid intelligent dance music that i couldnt even dance to and that some would not even call music. but by saying any of these names i am sharing an idea which u can probably relate too if u know the context in which the idea is being presented. what am i doing here? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-27 22:09Anig BrowlFrom: o O <endojo@hotmail.com> > for instance_ rock music. sounds silly. rocks? making mus

From:: Anig Browl <anig_browl@yahoo.com>
To:: IDM List <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:09:21 +0100
Subject:: Re: [idm] IDM sub-genres: variety is nice: Record Camp is nicer

From: o O <endojo@hotmail.com>

quoted 1 line for instance_ rock music. sounds silly. rocks? making music?

> for instance_ rock music. sounds silly. rocks? making music?

Actually, 'rock' was a synonym for 'fuck' back in the 20s and 30s (when jazz and the like was really underground). Lots of songs about screwing, like Big Mama Thornton's 'My baby rocks me with one steady roll'. Gives me a giggle whenever I see the phrase 'Christian Rock'.

quoted 2 lines or alternative music. alternative to what? all other music? then isnt all

> or alternative music. alternative to what? all other music? then isnt all > music alternative?

Er...

quoted 1 line or country music. this implies it was made in a country.

> or country music. this implies it was made in a country.

Well, the country as opposed to the city. God, I hate country music.

quoted 1 line what am i doing here?

> what am i doing here?

Take two of these and go lie down for a while :-) Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Re: [idm] IDM sub-genres: variety is nice: Record Camp is nicer