IDM Mailing Archive

man I hope he didn't approve this: I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug War commercial here in the US... This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion really mattered to him... But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at the same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm... Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind.... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:39:47PM -0700, Joshua Brown wrote:

quoted 12 lines man I hope he didn't approve this:

> man I hope he didn't approve this: > > I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug War > commercial here in the US... > > This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion really > mattered to him... > > But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at the > same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm... > > Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind....

This, of course, being the worst opinion offered on the list in a couple of years. / wells // wells@submute.net "i saved latin. what did you ever do?" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war against freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people have their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. At 06:42 PM 5/8/2001, wells wrote:

quoted 19 lines On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:39:47PM -0700, Joshua Brown wrote:

>On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:39:47PM -0700, Joshua Brown wrote: > > man I hope he didn't approve this: > > > > I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug War > > commercial here in the US... > > > > This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion really > > mattered to him... > > > > But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at the > > same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm... > > > > Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind.... > >This, of course, being the worst opinion offered on the list in a couple >of years. > >/ wells // wells@submute.net > "i saved latin. what did you ever do?"

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On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote:

quoted 4 lines well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being

> well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being > the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war against > freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people have > their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse.

Racist? The US policy towards drug use might have been founded in racism but I fail to see how it is a racial war (today). The effects of the WoD can be felt by all races, ages, genders, etc. ........... Jordan Koch http://www.digitalnoise.net "I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game 'Illusion of Gaia' --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

well it's pretty obvious if you have your eyes open that the underprivileged races in America are incarcerated at a much higher rate... For an example of a racist policy, crack carries about 10 times the prison sentence of cocaine, even though they are the same molecule... poor blacks tend to smoke crack and rich white kids tend to snort cocaine... At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001, Jordan Koch wrote:

quoted 16 lines On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote:

>On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote: > > > well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being > > the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war against > > freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people have > > their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > >Racist? The US policy towards drug use might have been founded in racism >but I fail to see how it is a racial war (today). The effects of the >WoD can be felt by all races, ages, genders, etc. > >........... >Jordan Koch >http://www.digitalnoise.net >"I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game >'Illusion of Gaia'

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On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote:

quoted 3 lines For an example of a racist policy, crack carries about 10 times the prison

> For an example of a racist policy, crack carries about 10 times the prison > sentence of cocaine, even though they are the same molecule... poor blacks > tend to smoke crack and rich white kids tend to snort cocaine...

Yes, but, I don't believe that it was racism. Which ever drug the media hypes is going to be the next big threat to the nation's youth. Laws are created accordingly. Acid and E (now) have retarded jail times, are those also racially biased laws? ........... Jordan Koch http://www.digitalnoise.net "I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game 'Illusion of Gaia' --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

WOOHOO! a *drugs* discussion! This can only mean one thing: the IDM-list is BACK!

quoted 42 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Brown [mailto:josh@undertone.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:53 PM > To: Jordan Koch > Cc: wells; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Aphex Twin: sellout? > > > well it's pretty obvious if you have your eyes open that the > underprivileged races in America are incarcerated at a much > higher rate... > For an example of a racist policy, crack carries about 10 times > the prison > sentence of cocaine, even though they are the same molecule... > poor blacks > tend to smoke crack and rich white kids tend to snort cocaine... > > At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001, Jordan Koch wrote: > >On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote: > > > > > well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent > evidence being > > > the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a > racist war against > > > freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people have > > > their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > > > >Racist? The US policy towards drug use might have been founded in racism > >but I fail to see how it is a racial war (today). The effects of the > >WoD can be felt by all races, ages, genders, etc. > > > >........... > >Jordan Koch > >http://www.digitalnoise.net > >"I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game > >'Illusion of Gaia' > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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HOORAY HOORAY FOR DRUGS AND IDM I see this as the beginning of a beautiful relationship. On Tue, 8 May 2001, Adam Piontek wrote:

quoted 56 lines WOOHOO! a *drugs* discussion! This can only mean one thing: the IDM-list is

> WOOHOO! a *drugs* discussion! This can only mean one thing: the IDM-list is > BACK! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joshua Brown [mailto:josh@undertone.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:53 PM > > To: Jordan Koch > > Cc: wells; idm@hyperreal.org > > Subject: Re: [idm] Aphex Twin: sellout? > > > > > > well it's pretty obvious if you have your eyes open that the > > underprivileged races in America are incarcerated at a much > > higher rate... > > For an example of a racist policy, crack carries about 10 times > > the prison > > sentence of cocaine, even though they are the same molecule... > > poor blacks > > tend to smoke crack and rich white kids tend to snort cocaine... > > > > At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001, Jordan Koch wrote: > > >On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote: > > > > > > > well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent > > evidence being > > > > the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a > > racist war against > > > > freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people have > > > > their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > > > > > >Racist? The US policy towards drug use might have been founded in racism > > >but I fail to see how it is a racial war (today). The effects of the > > >WoD can be felt by all races, ages, genders, etc. > > > > > >........... > > >Jordan Koch > > >http://www.digitalnoise.net > > >"I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game > > >'Illusion of Gaia' > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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oh, give me a fucking break. show me the hard statistics. on second thought, don't show me the stats --- i'm not interested. take it to the Salon message boards or something. okay, i can't resist.. damn it.. Crack SHOULD carry ten times the prison sentence as coke. I've seen crack destroy entire lives in less than six months. Never seen coke do that. Crack is one of the few drugs that really does pose a risk to national security. --- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote:

quoted 37 lines well it's pretty obvious if you have your eyes open that the

> well it's pretty obvious if you have your eyes open that the > underprivileged races in America are incarcerated at a much higher > rate... > For an example of a racist policy, crack carries about 10 times the > prison > sentence of cocaine, even though they are the same molecule... poor > blacks > tend to smoke crack and rich white kids tend to snort cocaine... > > At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001, Jordan Koch wrote: > >On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote: > > > > > well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence > being > > > the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war > against > > > freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people > have > > > their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > > > >Racist? The US policy towards drug use might have been founded in > racism > >but I fail to see how it is a racial war (today). The effects of the > >WoD can be felt by all races, ages, genders, etc. > > > >........... > >Jordan Koch > >http://www.digitalnoise.net > >"I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The > game > >'Illusion of Gaia' > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Yeah, racist. Here in Colorado, blacks are imprisoned at a rate 19 times higher than whites, according to a report released a few weeks ago. A lot of this stems from inequities b/w the cocaine and crack laws. -Ryan At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 21 lines On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote:

>On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote: > > > well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being > > the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war against > > freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people have > > their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > >Racist? The US policy towards drug use might have been founded in racism >but I fail to see how it is a racial war (today). The effects of the >WoD can be felt by all races, ages, genders, etc. > >........... >Jordan Koch >http://www.digitalnoise.net >"I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game >'Illusion of Gaia' > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Remember, correlation does not mean causation. Racists can easily use these statistics for the reverse arguments. If blacks are imprisoned 19 times more than whites, it must follow that they're breaking the law more, right? I know it doesn't; such an argument would commit the same mistake you are making. What you need to do is answer two questions at once: At what rates are whites and blacks imprisoned/arrested for drug use, and at what rates do whites and blacks actually use drugs? If whites and blacks use drugs equally, but blacks get arrested far more often, well, then you'd have something. Someone actually posted more detailed statistics earlier, but I don't think anyone cared. We're more interested in arguing in favor of our personal beliefs here than in listening to facts. Regardless, the statistics don't reflect a lot of other issues, either, such as economic background, location, and other nurturing factors. But please, let's not get into a nature vs. nurture discussion. I'd rather read more messages about AE vs. Plaid or Kid606 vs. The World than IDM-l vs. Drugs! --- Ryan Schilling <ryanschilling@subdimension.com> wrote:

quoted 6 lines Yeah, racist. Here in Colorado, blacks are

> Yeah, racist. Here in Colorado, blacks are > imprisoned at a rate 19 times > higher than whites, according to a report released a > few weeks ago. A lot > of this stems from inequities b/w the cocaine and > crack laws.

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Note that I didn't say the Colorado stat *wholly* stems from the inequities I spoke of. When you look at the atrocious ratio of blacks in jail compared to whites in jail, and arm yourself both with Atomly's stat on the racial breakdown of drug users in general and the numbers showing how many people are imprisoned because of drug offenses, you can see clearly that the coke vs. crack law *does* have serious implications and that there is partial causation. And to the person who said they'd never seen coke (as opposed to crack) hurt anybody, I'd like you to meet a friend of mine with a pacemaker.... -Ryan At 08:58 AM 5/9/2001 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 46 lines Remember, correlation does not mean causation.

>Remember, correlation does not mean causation. >Racists can easily use these statistics for the >reverse arguments. If blacks are imprisoned 19 times >more than whites, it must follow that they're breaking >the law more, right? > >I know it doesn't; such an argument would commit the >same mistake you are making. What you need to do is >answer two questions at once: At what rates are whites >and blacks imprisoned/arrested for drug use, and at >what rates do whites and blacks actually use drugs? >If whites and blacks use drugs equally, but blacks get >arrested far more often, well, then you'd have >something. > >Someone actually posted more detailed statistics >earlier, but I don't think anyone cared. We're more >interested in arguing in favor of our personal beliefs >here than in listening to facts. > >Regardless, the statistics don't reflect a lot of >other issues, either, such as economic background, >location, and other nurturing factors. But please, >let's not get into a nature vs. nurture discussion. >I'd rather read more messages about AE vs. Plaid or >Kid606 vs. The World than IDM-l vs. Drugs! > >--- Ryan Schilling <ryanschilling@subdimension.com> >wrote: > > Yeah, racist. Here in Colorado, blacks are > > imprisoned at a rate 19 times > > higher than whites, according to a report released a > > few weeks ago. A lot > > of this stems from inequities b/w the cocaine and > > crack laws. > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, Joshua Brown wrote:

quoted 4 lines well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being

>well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being >the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war against >freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people have >their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse.

God damn, ladies and gentlemen! The worst opinion offered on the list in a couple of years was outdone in a matter of minutes. holy shnikeys! - wells oliver || wells@submute.net "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't trust no words written down on no piece of paper especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. You're just as likely to find your own grave." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or defending my position means that it is unpopular in this group. That's too bad, I had thought that the IDM list members would have been a more politically enlightened bunch... Obviously most of you are either supporters of the Drug War or you don't care about the political affiliations of the artists in the genre... whichever it is, I have been appropriately admonished, and my unpopular opinion will remain submerged from now on, just as it should in a well functioning propaganda system. At 08:08 PM 5/8/2001, wells wrote:

quoted 18 lines At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, Joshua Brown wrote:

>At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, Joshua Brown wrote: >>well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence >>being the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war >>against freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people >>have their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > >God damn, ladies and gentlemen! The worst opinion offered on the list in a >couple of years was outdone in a matter of minutes. > >holy shnikeys! > >- wells oliver || wells@submute.net > "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but > I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't > trust no words written down on no piece of paper > especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. > You're just as likely to find your own grave." >

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quoted 13 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Brown [mailto:josh@undertone.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:33 PM > > hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or > defending my position means that it is unpopular in this group. > That's too > bad, I had thought that the IDM list members would have been a more > politically enlightened bunch... Obviously most of you are either > supporters of the Drug War or you don't care about the political > affiliations of the artists in the genre... whichever it is, I have been > appropriately admonished, and my unpopular opinion will remain submerged > from now on, just as it should in a well functioning propaganda system.

I for one partly agree with you. However, everything is propaganda, and some of us participate in lists like these to take a break from it. (which may be ironic, considering all the propaganda about new releases always being posted - that is, when we're not too busy arguing about drugs and what "idm" should be called) Also, although I partly agree with your opinions of the "drug war" situation(s), I think it's pretty unenlightened to assume others couldn't possibly be thinking as much about the issue as you do if they don't share your opinion. Opinions have a lot to do with values and morals and many more complex things, and not just with statistics. Just because someone agrees or disagrees with you doesn't really say anything about how smart they are or how much thought they've put into the issue. For example, I keep saying I agree with you (at least partly), but how do you know I'm not just doing it blindly? -adam PS - who the hell is Crunch? PPS - am I overdoing the Crunch thing yet? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 08:33 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 2 lines Obviously most of you are either supporters of the Drug War or you don't

>Obviously most of you are either supporters of the Drug War or you don't >care about the political affiliations of the artists in the genre...

We talk about music, not politics or at least, some of us try to. cheers, /derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- now updated daily --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote:

quoted 11 lines hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or

> hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or > defending my position means that it is unpopular in this group. That's > too > bad, I had thought that the IDM list members would have been a more > politically enlightened bunch... Obviously most of you are either > supporters of the Drug War or you don't care about the political > affiliations of the artists in the genre... whichever it is, I have been > > appropriately admonished, and my unpopular opinion will remain submerged > > from now on, just as it should in a well functioning propaganda system.

I, for one, could care less what RDJ's political affiliation is. The man is obviously an ass. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

are you just trying to start a flame war?

quoted 47 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Brown [mailto:josh@undertone.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:33 PM > To: wells > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Aphex Twin: sellout? > > > hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or > defending my position means that it is unpopular in this group. > That's too > bad, I had thought that the IDM list members would have been a more > politically enlightened bunch... Obviously most of you are either > supporters of the Drug War or you don't care about the political > affiliations of the artists in the genre... whichever it is, I have been > appropriately admonished, and my unpopular opinion will remain submerged > from now on, just as it should in a well functioning propaganda system. > > At 08:08 PM 5/8/2001, wells wrote: > >At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, Joshua Brown wrote: > >>well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence > >>being the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a > racist war > >>against freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of > good people > >>have their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > > > >God damn, ladies and gentlemen! The worst opinion offered on the > list in a > >couple of years was outdone in a matter of minutes. > > > >holy shnikeys! > > > >- wells oliver || wells@submute.net > > "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but > > I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't > > trust no words written down on no piece of paper > > especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. > > You're just as likely to find your own grave." > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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no, and why post to the list anymore if you supposedly aren't? I was hoping people would join me in saying "hey aphex, why would you do it?" and "yeah this does stink!" but unfortunately, the level of concern is extremely low, which in hindsight makes perfect sense given the video-game and television induced hypnosis that most "civilized" people are living under anyway... I have no desire to start a flame war, and if people stop insulting me to the list, then I won't post to it to defend myself. At 09:04 PM 5/8/2001, peter woodman wrote:

quoted 49 lines are you just trying to start a flame war?

>are you just trying to start a flame war? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joshua Brown [mailto:josh@undertone.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:33 PM > > To: wells > > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org > > Subject: Re: [idm] Aphex Twin: sellout? > > > > > > hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or > > defending my position means that it is unpopular in this group. > > That's too > > bad, I had thought that the IDM list members would have been a more > > politically enlightened bunch... Obviously most of you are either > > supporters of the Drug War or you don't care about the political > > affiliations of the artists in the genre... whichever it is, I have been > > appropriately admonished, and my unpopular opinion will remain submerged > > from now on, just as it should in a well functioning propaganda system. > > > > At 08:08 PM 5/8/2001, wells wrote: > > >At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, Joshua Brown wrote: > > >>well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence > > >>being the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a > > racist war > > >>against freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of > > good people > > >>have their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > > > > > >God damn, ladies and gentlemen! The worst opinion offered on the > > list in a > > >couple of years was outdone in a matter of minutes. > > > > > >holy shnikeys! > > > > > >- wells oliver || wells@submute.net > > > "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but > > > I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't > > > trust no words written down on no piece of paper > > > especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. > > > You're just as likely to find your own grave." > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > >

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Does anyone on this list support the drug war? On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote:

quoted 34 lines hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or

> hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or > defending my position means that it is unpopular in this group. That's too > bad, I had thought that the IDM list members would have been a more > politically enlightened bunch... Obviously most of you are either > supporters of the Drug War or you don't care about the political > affiliations of the artists in the genre... whichever it is, I have been > appropriately admonished, and my unpopular opinion will remain submerged > from now on, just as it should in a well functioning propaganda system. > > At 08:08 PM 5/8/2001, wells wrote: > >At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, Joshua Brown wrote: > >>well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence > >>being the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war > >>against freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people > >>have their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > > > >God damn, ladies and gentlemen! The worst opinion offered on the list in a > >couple of years was outdone in a matter of minutes. > > > >holy shnikeys! > > > >- wells oliver || wells@submute.net > > "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but > > I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't > > trust no words written down on no piece of paper > > especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. > > You're just as likely to find your own grave." > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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how about you rephrase that: Does anyone on this list not actively protest against the Drug War? ok, then you support it. Also, if you pay taxes you support the drug war, so I guess I support it too, at least I complain about it in public. At 09:07 PM 5/8/2001, Brian M. Cass wrote:

quoted 1 line Does anyone on this list support the drug war?

>Does anyone on this list support the drug war?

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you are either for aphex or you are against him. On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote:

quoted 4 lines how about you rephrase that:

> how about you rephrase that: > > Does anyone on this list not actively protest against the Drug War? ok, > then you support it.

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hmmm... this thread started as someone thought aphex twin 'sold out' because his tunes were used in a anti drug commercial... i could have sworn back when warp folk actually posted (who could blame them for no longer being active???) it was said that anyone willing to pay the ridiculous licensing fees they would charge could use warp tracks... i'm only guessing that the track is a warp track used in the commercial and believe that the comment was posted in regards to either aphex or black dog tunes being on some compilation that everyone felt was too commercial for the artists music, but seems to be the same thing to me... anyone know the email for william harris or thad biggerstaff...? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote:

quoted 4 lines how about you rephrase that:

> how about you rephrase that: > > Does anyone on this list not actively protest against the Drug War? ok, > then you support it.

How about you don't rephrase that. That's one of the worst examples of deductive reasoning that I have ever seen. Your argument is valid technically (Modus Ponens), but the premiss is unsound to such a large degree that the whole argument is laughable. As an example: Does anyone on this list not actively protest against me sticking several large spikes in their back as I mutilate their hands with a spoon? Ok, then you want me to. Professor Nerdlinger --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on 5/8/01 9:07 PM, Brian M. Cass at kingmob@nmt.edu wrote:

quoted 1 line Does anyone on this list support the drug war?

> Does anyone on this list support the drug war?

i do only because i experimented with drugs with a couple of friends and now that I have cleaned up, I am watching my friends slowly committing suicide as they go from one drug to the next getting worse with each new progression, or should i say degression. It's only out of the concern for the well being of my friends. It's all fun an games till some gets hurt. Peter "Pachinko" Ý - http://www.mp3.com/pachinko - --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines on 5/8/01 9:07 PM, Brian M. Cass at kingmob@nmt.edu wrote:

> on 5/8/01 9:07 PM, Brian M. Cass at kingmob@nmt.edu wrote: > > > Does anyone on this list support the drug war? > i do only because i experimented with drugs with a couple of friends and now > that I have cleaned up, I am watching my friends slowly committing suicide > as they go from one drug to the next getting worse with each new > progression, or should i say degression. It's only out of the concern for > the well being of my friends. It's all fun an games till some gets hurt.

and had you been "caught" during this phase of experimentation, do you, al gore, believe you too should have gone to jail? and because of your experimentation, do you believe that you should be denied certain liberties in life? ..because let me tell you, PLENTY of people in jail right now (black or white) are there because of "a phase of experimentation." hell, most of the music we listen to, if the "war on drugs" were a complete success (at least in terms of how it is enforced, not in terms of lowering drug use) would be from inside a cage. i think i agree completely, 100%, with josh's concern on this issue. however, i do not consider RDJ a "sell out" because of it. a "sell out" to me implies someone who gives up their beliefs (not someone else's or a fan's) in order to make money and push forward success. for all you know, RDJ either supports, doesnt give a fuck about, or has some sort of deep connection with the war on drugs. who knows? so, had josh not said "sell out" and attacked everyones image of nightly masturbation, i think this thread might have been a lot nicer. why does it concern me? well, IF certain people had it their way, *I* would be in jail for life. certain people i know, respect, and who do amazing things for the community would be in jail for *life*. al gore would be in jail. peter here would be in jail. the war on drugs is a joke, but really kids, its not. its a fucked up thing that has landed many people in a situation that is FAR MORE DEVESTATING than a hit off a pipe could ever be. and damn it, ae would be in jail, and that would just end my nightly masturbation sessions right there. no, wait, that is kinda sexy. YAY WAR ON DRUGS!! ...anyway, so now, for me, rdj is in that same "borderline" camp of artists that includes folks like muslimgauze and DIJ... that is, i enjoy some of the music, but am a bit unsure/unclear/uncomfortable about where it is coming from, intent wise. and i think this might be where josh is coming from.. just MY thoughts and my opinions on the issue. of course you may disagree. and that is a wonderful thing. chris drug addict/criminal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on 5/9/01 5:07 AM, zimbo at tofu@falco.kuci.uci.edu wrote:

quoted 4 lines and had you been "caught" during this phase of experimentation, do you, al

> and had you been "caught" during this phase of experimentation, do you, al > gore, believe you too should have gone to jail? and because of your > experimentation, do you believe that you should be denied certain > liberties in life?

I can't honestly say, I am not in that situation. I can honestly say that I believe that if the law was broken I see nothing wrong with being punished for it. The reason being is that I don't understand this need for people to "have their rights", and continually fight the law we already have. Don't get me wrong, I love the freedom that which I do have. It just seems like the laws we now create are based on individual freedoms that apply to each person on an individual level. That is the beauty of being able to vote. My point being, our country is so much better off than others (not perfect, just better off) that hardly anyone seems to take the time to realize that. We always have to have what we don't have instead of being thankful for what freedom we do have. Back on the topic to this line of questioning, if I got busted, i got busted, what can I do? The law specifically states it is illegal. Now, if our country were to decide it was legal, then so be it. I fear that considering most people will start demanding their rights to heroine, cause "really, heroine isn't so bad". Where does it end? Anyway, I am not judgemental when it comes to people who use drugs. Like I said before, if that is how someone wishes to spend their life, so be it. I just don't want to see my friends dying from it, for that matter of fact, consumed by it that that is all they live for. Life to me is so much more beautiful than to waste it on drugs. Peter "Pachinko" Ý - http://www.mp3.com/pachinko - --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Yeah, but do you think that the war on drugs has done anything to curb your friends' appetites for destructive behavior? Do you think they need help or need jail time? Do you think that if you'd have gotten arrested during your experimentation, you'd have had your change of heart and gotten cleaned up? Because that's what this war on drugs implicitly says: "Jail time will cure your addictions and your foibles." It's complete and total bullshit. Jail is not an effective deterrent against drug use (if you need any proof, look at our prison population increases over the past two decades). We need rehabilitation for people with serious problems. People need to be lifted up and shown that real life is still worth living. -Ryan At 10:11 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 17 lines on 5/8/01 9:07 PM, Brian M. Cass at kingmob@nmt.edu wrote:

>on 5/8/01 9:07 PM, Brian M. Cass at kingmob@nmt.edu wrote: > > > Does anyone on this list support the drug war? >i do only because i experimented with drugs with a couple of friends and now >that I have cleaned up, I am watching my friends slowly committing suicide >as they go from one drug to the next getting worse with each new >progression, or should i say degression. It's only out of the concern for >the well being of my friends. It's all fun an games till some gets hurt. > >Peter "Pachinko" Ý >- http://www.mp3.com/pachinko - > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Only if it's going to bring about lower prices through decriminalisation. Shits expensive, man. Dil

quoted 44 lines Does anyone on this list support the drug war?

>Does anyone on this list support the drug war? > >On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote: > >> hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or >> defending my position means that it is unpopular in this group. That's too >> bad, I had thought that the IDM list members would have been a more >> politically enlightened bunch... Obviously most of you are either >> supporters of the Drug War or you don't care about the political >> affiliations of the artists in the genre... whichever it is, I have been >> appropriately admonished, and my unpopular opinion will remain submerged >> from now on, just as it should in a well functioning propaganda system. >> >> At 08:08 PM 5/8/2001, wells wrote: >> >At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, Joshua Brown wrote: >> >>well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence >> >>being the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war >> >>against freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people >> >>have their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. >> > >> >God damn, ladies and gentlemen! The worst opinion offered on the list in a >> >couple of years was outdone in a matter of minutes. >> > >> >holy shnikeys! >> > >> >- wells oliver || wells@submute.net >> > "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but >> > I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't >> > trust no words written down on no piece of paper >> > especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. >> > You're just as likely to find your own grave." >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Thats my stance too, I can already get everything and not get caught, but its too expensive. Also it'd be nice to be able to know for sure the quality of what you're getting. On the other hand, I'm not looking forward to the common joe doing acid and then having to hear about the motherfucking media whores bullshit about one or two of them freaking out every goddamn night. point is: FUCK TELEVISION On Wed, 9 May 2001, Christopher Dilkus wrote:

quoted 53 lines Only if it's going to bring about lower prices through decriminalisation.

> Only if it's going to bring about lower prices through decriminalisation. > > Shits expensive, man. > > Dil > > >Does anyone on this list support the drug war? > > > >On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote: > > > >> hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or > >> defending my position means that it is unpopular in this group. That's too > >> bad, I had thought that the IDM list members would have been a more > >> politically enlightened bunch... Obviously most of you are either > >> supporters of the Drug War or you don't care about the political > >> affiliations of the artists in the genre... whichever it is, I have been > >> appropriately admonished, and my unpopular opinion will remain submerged > >> from now on, just as it should in a well functioning propaganda system. > >> > >> At 08:08 PM 5/8/2001, wells wrote: > >> >At 06:44 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, Joshua Brown wrote: > >> >>well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence > >> >>being the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war > >> >>against freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people > >> >>have their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > >> > > >> >God damn, ladies and gentlemen! The worst opinion offered on the list in a > >> >couple of years was outdone in a matter of minutes. > >> > > >> >holy shnikeys! > >> > > >> >- wells oliver || wells@submute.net > >> > "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but > >> > I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't > >> > trust no words written down on no piece of paper > >> > especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. > >> > You're just as likely to find your own grave." > >> > > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >> > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >

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on 5/8/01 8:33 PM, Joshua Brown at josh@undertone.com wrote:

quoted 4 lines hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or

> hmmmm Ok, I can only assume that the lack of anyone concurring with or > defending my position means that it is unpopular in this group. That's too > bad, I had thought that the IDM list members would have been a more > politically enlightened bunch...

Just because someone doesn't agree with your stance, that it is racially inclined, does not conclude that the list is NOT politically enlightened. It just means that the list doesn't agree. I agree that there is racism involved in the drug war, but that doesn't conclude that the drug war is racist.

quoted 2 lines Obviously most of you are either

> Obviously most of you are either > supporters of the Drug War

For the record, I do not judge anyone for using drugs. If that is how they wish to be recreational, then so be it. I do not use drugs, cause I didn't see the point of focusing my time and energy on them.

quoted 2 lines or you don't care about the political

> or you don't care about the political > affiliations of the artists in the genre... whichever it is,

Just like it was said before, if we all bought our music based on political agendas, we would have a lousy if not, limited music selection. Enjoy the music for what it is, if you don't agree with their message, don't buy it.

quoted 3 lines I have been

> I have been > appropriately admonished, and my unpopular opinion will remain submerged > from now on, just as it should in a well functioning propaganda system.

Only cause you are taking such a crazy stance on the whole issue of it being racially inclined. There are many respectable people wanting to see everyone being treated equal on this issue, black, white, asain, hispanic, whatever. You can't let some of the supporters on the Drug War determine it's entire agenda, that would be like saying, everyone ones opinion on what IDM should sound like is examplified through Autechre's "Confield". We all know that isn't true. Peter "Pachinko" Ý - http://www.mp3.com/pachinko - --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Apparently none of you guys have released music on a label, so I have to inform you of something. There's about a 10% chance that Aphex owns the rights to his songs. Most artists who have a major release sign away the rights to the label and a publishing company in hopes of getting put on lots of comps and in movies and commercials in exchange for royalties. And for everybody who thinks Aphex is anti-drug, he's admitted in several interviews that he's a recreational user. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

yah, that was pretty much my point... where the hell did the 'I' in idm go? *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 5/9/2001 at 11:45 AM atomly wrote:

quoted 20 lines Apparently none of you guys have released music on a label, so I have to

>Apparently none of you guys have released music on a label, so I have to >inform you of something. There's about a 10% chance that Aphex owns the >rights to his songs. > >Most artists who have a major release sign away the rights to the label >and a publishing company in hopes of getting put on lots of comps and in >movies and commercials in exchange for royalties. > >And for everybody who thinks Aphex is anti-drug, he's admitted in >several interviews that he's a recreational user. > >-- >:: atomly :: > >atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com >http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Was the RDJ album distributed in the states by TVT? Is it possible that they could have sold the rights without even asking Warp's permission? I obviously know nothing about rights to music and all that. Which record co or would it be a publishing co, should Josh what's-his-face boycott? If it's Warp, well, hell, that could mean a guy's entire collection. That could put a serious damper on things.

quoted 35 lines *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 5/9/2001 at 11:45 AM atomly wrote: > > >Apparently none of you guys have released music on a label, so I have > to > >inform you of something. There's about a 10% chance that Aphex owns > the > >rights to his songs. > > > >Most artists who have a major release sign away the rights to the label > >and a publishing company in hopes of getting put on lots of comps and > in > >movies and commercials in exchange for royalties. > > > >And for everybody who thinks Aphex is anti-drug, he's admitted in > >several interviews that he's a recreational user. > > > >-- > >:: atomly :: > > > >atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com > >http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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[Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com>]

quoted 4 lines well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being

> well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being > the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war against > freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people have > their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse.

Everybody blew up about the "racist" part of this, so I thought I'd offer up so info to support it. 1 in 3 black men is in some step of the prison/parole system as we speak (that's 5 times the percentage for whites) 12% of the population is black but 50% of prisons and 44% of jails are black. 72% of people in prison are there on drug charges. Black unemployment is double that of white. Three out of four drug users are White (non-Latino), but Blacks are much more likely to be arrested for drug offenses and receive longer sentences. As the Sentencing Project reports, Blacks constitute 13 percent of all past-month drug users, but 35 percent of arrests for drug possession, 55 percent of convictions, and 74 percent of prison sentences. Almost 90 percent of people sentenced to state prison for drug possession in 1992 were Black or Latino 80 percent of cocaine users are white. (LA Times) I could go on and on, but I think you see the point. I know that the anti-PC-white-males-are-the-minority thing has become really popular lately, but it's a bunch of BS. Racism still exists and people shouldn't assume that it doesn't. An even more important point, though, is that most of this is even more classist than it is racist (see unemployment figures and find out how they coincide with drug charges). -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on 5/8/01 8:08 PM, atomly at atomly@atomly.com wrote:

quoted 38 lines [Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com>]

> [Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com>] >> well, Metallica were once great and then sold out... recent evidence being >> the whole Napster debacle... I think Aphex supporting a racist war against >> freedom in America and worldwide in which millions of good people have >> their lives ruined or are killed is probably even worse. > > Everybody blew up about the "racist" part of this, so I thought I'd > offer up so info to support it. > > 1 in 3 black men is in some step of the prison/parole system as we speak > (that's 5 times the percentage for whites) > > 12% of the population is black but 50% of prisons and 44% of jails are > black. > > 72% of people in prison are there on drug charges. > > Black unemployment is double that of white. > > Three out of four drug users are White (non-Latino), but Blacks are much > more likely to be arrested for drug offenses and receive longer > sentences. As the Sentencing Project reports, Blacks constitute 13 > percent of all past-month drug users, but 35 percent of arrests for drug > possession, 55 percent of convictions, and 74 percent of prison > sentences. Almost 90 percent of people sentenced to state prison for > drug possession in 1992 were Black or Latino > > 80 percent of cocaine users are white. (LA Times) > > I could go on and on, but I think you see the point. > > I know that the anti-PC-white-males-are-the-minority thing has become > really popular lately, but it's a bunch of BS. Racism still exists and > people shouldn't assume that it doesn't. > > An even more important point, though, is that most of this is even more > classist than it is racist (see unemployment figures and find out how > they coincide with drug charges).

i still don't see how this proves that the war on drugs is racist. it only proves, just like anything else that racism is involved in everything the government has it's hands in. Peter "Pachinko" Ý - http://www.mp3.com/pachinko - --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

[Peter Schrock <pachinko74@mac.com>]

quoted 3 lines i still don't see how this proves that the war on drugs is racist. it only

> i still don't see how this proves that the war on drugs is racist. it only > proves, just like anything else that racism is involved in everything the > government has it's hands in.

Then do I have to make a syllogism to spell it out for you? According to you: Everything the government does is racist. The government runs the war on drugs. Therefore: The war on drugs is racist. QED -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

You're still incorrect. Take it a step further. If you were to conclude with that line of thinking, so then you are racist. "You pay your taxes, you obey a majority of our countries laws, therefore you support the government". The only way this statement could be true is if you agreed to it. I can guarantee that it isn't. You obey the laws for fear of the consequences of the law, not your support of the government which makes the initial statement false. Am I right so far? Anyway, when I said "everything the government has it's hands in", I meant it in a general term, I did not mean it literally. What I said was "it only proves, just like anything else that racism is involved in everything the government has it's hands in", meaning that racism exist in everything that the government does, not that "Everything the government does is racist". Sorry that I have to "...spell it out for you" but that is not what I said. So you still have an arguement to validate. on 5/9/01 9:38 AM, atomly at atomly@atomly.com wrote:

quoted 12 lines Then do I have to make a syllogism to spell it out for you?

> Then do I have to make a syllogism to spell it out for you? > > According to you: > Everything the government does is racist. > The government runs the war on drugs. > > Therefore: > The war on drugs is racist. > QED > > -- > :: atomly ::

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[Peter Schrock <pachinko74@mac.com>]

quoted 4 lines You're still incorrect. Take it a step further. If you were to conclude

> You're still incorrect. Take it a step further. If you were to conclude > with that line of thinking, so then you are racist. "You pay your taxes, > you obey a majority of our countries laws, therefore you support the > government".

A lot of people agree with this line of reasoning. This isn't to say that it is true, but it can't be brushed aside as incorrect without thinking about it further. Civil disobedience is a pretty popular concept. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

For Pete's sake- SHUT THE FUCK UP!! -- forel pseudo-intellectual elitist fuck Joshua Brown wrote:

quoted 12 lines man I hope he didn't approve this:

> man I hope he didn't approve this: > > I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug War > commercial here in the US... > > This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion really > mattered to him... > > But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at the > same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm... > > Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind....

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RDJ must be very proud... people are willing to fly in the face of FACTS (re: racism and the drug war) in order to defend his integrity. Here's another statistic for ya-- this one totally unscientific and drawn from my own experience; take it for what it is: 90% of white people I know think the drug war is not racist, and about 90% of non-white people I know think it is. 90%=/=100%-10%, 90%==large majority. Try this at home folks, ask all your friends. What does this mean? I dunno, I just think it's a weird contradiction. As for sellout-hood, I think RDJ's beliefs have no bearing whatsoever on the quality of his art. Nor does his selling a song for use in a commercial (if that's, in fact, what happened). An artist is an artist. Look at Wagner... he was an anti-semite (Hitler's favorite composer), a misogynist, and an all-around asshole, but he wrote some of the most beautiful music ever invented. In my opinion. His attitudes make me nauseous but his music makes me want to cry, it's so good (np: "Good Friday Spell" from Parsifal, Richard Wagner). If RDJ believes that drug use is evil and that the War on Drugs is a good way to end it, so what? I'll by his discs anyway, cuz The Man had to pay him with money that could be going towards locking up some poor kid for 30 years who got caught ONCE with some weed. Money to RDJ=RDJ keeps living=more AFX music, and that's a good thing. He's only a sellout if he takes money for doing something that's contrary to his beliefs, and even that wouldn't have any bearing on the quality of his music, would it? Only if he was writing political propaganda music, I guess. Fuck "sellout." I can't wait till my music's good enough to make me a sellout! Of course, I'd never try to sue Napster... that's just stupid. Zzb --- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote:

quoted 21 lines man I hope he didn't approve this:

> man I hope he didn't approve this: > > I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug War > > commercial here in the US... > > This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion really > > mattered to him... > > But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at the > > same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm... > > Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind.... > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Does this mean Amon Tobin has to drink Coke and drive whateverthefuck kind of car that was in the commercial? Wow, the Beatles must have worn Nike's ('cept Lennon, he was dead) cause they let Nike used Revolution in a commercial... Dil

quoted 66 lines RDJ must be very proud... people are willing to fly in the face of FACTS

>RDJ must be very proud... people are willing to fly in the face of FACTS >(re: racism and the drug war) in order to defend his integrity. Here's >another statistic for ya-- this one totally unscientific and drawn from my >own experience; take it for what it is: 90% of white people I know think >the drug war is not racist, and about 90% of non-white people I know think >it is. 90%=/=100%-10%, 90%==large majority. Try this at home folks, ask >all your friends. What does this mean? I dunno, I just think it's a >weird contradiction. >As for sellout-hood, I think RDJ's beliefs have no bearing whatsoever on >the quality of his art. Nor does his selling a song for use in a >commercial (if that's, in fact, what happened). An artist is an artist. >Look at Wagner... he was an anti-semite (Hitler's favorite composer), a >misogynist, and an all-around asshole, but he wrote some of the most >beautiful music ever invented. In my opinion. His attitudes make me >nauseous but his music makes me want to cry, it's so good (np: "Good >Friday Spell" from Parsifal, Richard Wagner). If RDJ believes that drug >use is evil and that the War on Drugs is a good way to end it, so what? >I'll by his discs anyway, cuz The Man had to pay him with money that could >be going towards locking up some poor kid for 30 years who got caught ONCE >with some weed. Money to RDJ=RDJ keeps living=more AFX music, and that's >a good thing. He's only a sellout if he takes money for doing something >that's contrary to his beliefs, and even that wouldn't have any bearing on >the quality of his music, would it? Only if he was writing political >propaganda music, I guess. Fuck "sellout." I can't wait till my music's >good enough to make me a sellout! Of course, I'd never try to sue >Napster... that's just stupid. > >Zzb > > > >--- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote: >> man I hope he didn't approve this: >> >> I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug War >> >> commercial here in the US... >> >> This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion really >> >> mattered to him... >> >> But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at the >> >> same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm... >> >> Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind.... >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> > > >===== > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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--- Christopher Dilkus <cpdilkus@snip.net> wrote:

quoted 8 lines Does this mean Amon Tobin has to drink Coke and drive whateverthefuck

> Does this mean Amon Tobin has to drink Coke and drive whateverthefuck > kind > of car that was in the commercial? Wow, the Beatles must have worn > Nike's > ('cept Lennon, he was dead) cause they let Nike used Revolution in a > commercial... > > Dil

Oh antagonistic yet musically appreciative soul-brother of mine, I think we agree in spirit but I'm sure you missed my point. Cars and shoes are not necessarily ideas or forces of politics, and it can safely be said, I think, that one does not agree or disagree with shoes on a fundamentally philosophical level if one has already chosen to be a popular mainstream musician. The WoD is a different matter. It is ALL about ideas, Theirs vs. Mine. *My idea is that it is a case of the medicine being worse than the disease: drug addiction can often be cured and bodies can usually heal, but there is no known remedy for decades in prison without parole. *Their idea is that druggies should go to jail and rot for their sins. Give me crack over the misguided vengeance of the US government any day-- it's more hopeful. Clear philosophical differences here! HOWEVER, as Atomly pointed out, RDJ might not have even known about the whole thing until he recieved a check in the mail. I tried to lace my post liberally with the word "if", but perhaps it was, however important, overlooked. My whole point was that -RDJ is not necessarily a sellout because the music was in some commercial -even IF he knew about it and agreed with the message of the commercial he still isn't a sellout -even IF he somehow is a sellout (whatever the hell a sellout is), it doesn't mean his music suddenly sucks -finally, to not buy Aphex Twin recordings because of this whole debacle is absolutely ridiculous. Agreed? tryin to keep it about the music, Zzb E Z7T

quoted 87 lines RDJ must be very proud... people are willing to fly in the face of

> > >RDJ must be very proud... people are willing to fly in the face of > FACTS > >(re: racism and the drug war) in order to defend his integrity. Here's > >another statistic for ya-- this one totally unscientific and drawn from > my > >own experience; take it for what it is: 90% of white people I know > think > >the drug war is not racist, and about 90% of non-white people I know > think > >it is. 90%=/=100%-10%, 90%==large majority. Try this at home folks, > ask > >all your friends. What does this mean? I dunno, I just think it's a > >weird contradiction. > >As for sellout-hood, I think RDJ's beliefs have no bearing whatsoever > on > >the quality of his art. Nor does his selling a song for use in a > >commercial (if that's, in fact, what happened). An artist is an > artist. > >Look at Wagner... he was an anti-semite (Hitler's favorite composer), a > >misogynist, and an all-around asshole, but he wrote some of the most > >beautiful music ever invented. In my opinion. His attitudes make me > >nauseous but his music makes me want to cry, it's so good (np: "Good > >Friday Spell" from Parsifal, Richard Wagner). If RDJ believes that > drug > >use is evil and that the War on Drugs is a good way to end it, so what? > >I'll by his discs anyway, cuz The Man had to pay him with money that > could > >be going towards locking up some poor kid for 30 years who got caught > ONCE > >with some weed. Money to RDJ=RDJ keeps living=more AFX music, and > that's > >a good thing. He's only a sellout if he takes money for doing > something > >that's contrary to his beliefs, and even that wouldn't have any bearing > on > >the quality of his music, would it? Only if he was writing political > >propaganda music, I guess. Fuck "sellout." I can't wait till my > music's > >good enough to make me a sellout! Of course, I'd never try to sue > >Napster... that's just stupid. > > > >Zzb > > > > > > > >--- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote: > >> man I hope he didn't approve this: > >> > >> I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug > War > >> > >> commercial here in the US... > >> > >> This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion > really > >> > >> mattered to him... > >> > >> But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at > the > >> > >> same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm... > >> > >> Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind.... > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >> > > > > > >===== > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >

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--- Lander <gamera_@yahoo.com> wrote:

quoted 8 lines my point. Cars and

> my point. Cars and > shoes are not necessarily ideas or forces of > politics, and it can safely > be said, I think, that one does not agree or > disagree with shoes on a > fundamentally philosophical level if one has already > chosen to be a > popular mainstream musician.

One may not disagree with shoes, but one can have problems with a brand, as a brand represents a company, and companies generally do more than purely produce shoes. Especially in this age of corporate conglomerates who own tons of different companies/brands/etc., like AOL Time Warner. If Nike shoes don't represent something more than just a shoe, then why do so many people buy Nike over some other brand, like Converse (!) ? It might have to do with the quality of the shoe, but that can't be the only thing. For goodness' sake, you can easliy find marketing books on Amazon that are all about selling dreams to people. Products often reprsent not only themselves, but a lifestyle and belief system that a potential customer might want to identify with. Hence, target audiences for ad campaigns. Hence why car companies play 'hip' techno music in the background of their commercials. PS - gamera kicks ass, but only when it's being done by MST3K :P __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com> wrote:

quoted 16 lines --- Lander <gamera_@yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- Lander <gamera_@yahoo.com> wrote: > > my point. Cars and > > shoes are not necessarily ideas or forces of > > politics, and it can safely > > be said, I think, that one does not agree or > > disagree with shoes on a > > fundamentally philosophical level if one has already > > chosen to be a > > popular mainstream musician. > > One may not disagree with shoes, but one can have > problems with a brand, as a brand represents a > company, and companies generally do more than purely > produce shoes. Especially in this age of corporate > conglomerates who own tons of different > companies/brands/etc., like AOL Time Warner.

Hmmm... that's sort of why I said "not necessarily", but to clarify-- sort of, I guess-- or to delve deeper into what I'm trying to say, try looking at it this way if you will. If someone is in a shoe advertisement, you really can't tell what they think about the product, if anything at all. They might be doing it for the money alone. They might disagree with the company ethos or the materials the product is made from or something, but do it for the money anyway. They might do it because they think the company is doing wonderful things in the world. The point is that with an advertisement for a PRODUCT it's inherently ambiguous what kind of opinion, if any, is involved, and thus totally pointless to speculate without further information. But the drug war is such a heated issue-- for americans anyway, but keep in mind I don't know and don't think it matters a bit what RDJ thinks about it, if anything-- that there is a very good chance the endorser has an opinion about it. It's also safe to assume that since they are endorsing the drug war in this hypothetical advertisement, that they, ummm, endorse it. Sorry. So shoes aren't NECESSARILY ideas-- though they could be-- but the WoD almost certainly is, and that's why I said they were different. If that doesn't make sense and seems contrary to what I wrote before, blame it on the fact that I was listening to Bjork when I wrote the first post and I'm listening to Leftfield now. I haven't figured out which breeds more of an inclination towards logical thinking.

quoted 8 lines For goodness' sake, you can easliy find marketing

> For goodness' sake, you can easliy find marketing > books on Amazon that are all about selling dreams to > people. Products often reprsent not only themselves, > but a lifestyle and belief system that a potential > customer might want to identify with. Hence, target > audiences for ad campaigns. Hence why car companies > play 'hip' techno music in the background of their > commercials.

Yeah but that's advertisers, not celebrity endorsers (and I don't think AFX is even one of these... for one thing he's not a celebrity <snicker>).

quoted 3 lines PS - gamera kicks ass, but only when it's being done

> > PS - gamera kicks ass, but only when it's being done > by MST3K :P

Gamera ALWAYS kicks ass. But especially on MST3K. So much for keeping it about the music, Zzb ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

We tried to get a free Coke machine for the office on the back end of that deal but it never came through. Probably a good thing seeing as I already have a rampant caffeine addiction. We also tried for the free BMW for Amon but no luck. Let's put it in perspective here. In this day and age everyone should be able to see through advertising. Amon doesn't stand behind Coke one way or another, he's not their poster boy. It's just collecting a good deal of money to have a track he already recorded used. He can then use said money to spend more time not having a day job and making more music. Moby made a very good point in an interview, you can either take their money or they'll just go and hire someone unknown to make a track that kind of sounds like your track they wanted and everyone will think it's you anyway. So might as well take the money and put it to good use. It's doing more good in the pockets of your favorite artists than it is in someone elses. You shouldn't read so much into it. It's just music in the background of a message that you either agree with or don't, a product you like or don't. Did any of you actually start to drink more Coke because of Amon? Jeff on 5/9/01 2:18 PM, Lander at gamera_@yahoo.com wrote:

quoted 147 lines --- Christopher Dilkus <cpdilkus@snip.net> wrote:

> --- Christopher Dilkus <cpdilkus@snip.net> wrote: >> Does this mean Amon Tobin has to drink Coke and drive whateverthefuck >> kind >> of car that was in the commercial? Wow, the Beatles must have worn >> Nike's >> ('cept Lennon, he was dead) cause they let Nike used Revolution in a >> commercial... >> >> Dil > > Oh antagonistic yet musically appreciative soul-brother of mine, > > I think we agree in spirit but I'm sure you missed my point. Cars and > shoes are not necessarily ideas or forces of politics, and it can safely > be said, I think, that one does not agree or disagree with shoes on a > fundamentally philosophical level if one has already chosen to be a > popular mainstream musician. > The WoD is a different matter. It is ALL about ideas, Theirs vs. Mine. > *My idea is that it is a case of the medicine being worse than the > disease: drug addiction can often be cured and bodies can usually heal, > but there is no known remedy for decades in prison without parole. > *Their idea is that druggies should go to jail and rot for their sins. > Give me crack over the misguided vengeance of the US government any day-- > it's more hopeful. Clear philosophical differences here! > > HOWEVER, as Atomly pointed out, RDJ might not have even known about the > whole thing until he recieved a check in the mail. I tried to lace my > post liberally with the word "if", but perhaps it was, however important, > overlooked. > > My whole point was that > -RDJ is not necessarily a sellout because the music was in some commercial > -even IF he knew about it and agreed with the message of the commercial he > still isn't a sellout > -even IF he somehow is a sellout (whatever the hell a sellout is), it > doesn't mean his music suddenly sucks > -finally, to not buy Aphex Twin recordings because of this whole debacle > is absolutely ridiculous. > Agreed? > > > tryin to keep it about the music, > Zzb E Z7T > > > >> >>> RDJ must be very proud... people are willing to fly in the face of >> FACTS >>> (re: racism and the drug war) in order to defend his integrity. Here's >>> another statistic for ya-- this one totally unscientific and drawn from >> my >>> own experience; take it for what it is: 90% of white people I know >> think >>> the drug war is not racist, and about 90% of non-white people I know >> think >>> it is. 90%=/=100%-10%, 90%==large majority. Try this at home folks, >> ask >>> all your friends. What does this mean? I dunno, I just think it's a >>> weird contradiction. >>> As for sellout-hood, I think RDJ's beliefs have no bearing whatsoever >> on >>> the quality of his art. Nor does his selling a song for use in a >>> commercial (if that's, in fact, what happened). An artist is an >> artist. >>> Look at Wagner... he was an anti-semite (Hitler's favorite composer), a >>> misogynist, and an all-around asshole, but he wrote some of the most >>> beautiful music ever invented. In my opinion. His attitudes make me >>> nauseous but his music makes me want to cry, it's so good (np: "Good >>> Friday Spell" from Parsifal, Richard Wagner). If RDJ believes that >> drug >>> use is evil and that the War on Drugs is a good way to end it, so what? >>> I'll by his discs anyway, cuz The Man had to pay him with money that >> could >>> be going towards locking up some poor kid for 30 years who got caught >> ONCE >>> with some weed. Money to RDJ=RDJ keeps living=more AFX music, and >> that's >>> a good thing. He's only a sellout if he takes money for doing >> something >>> that's contrary to his beliefs, and even that wouldn't have any bearing >> on >>> the quality of his music, would it? Only if he was writing political >>> propaganda music, I guess. Fuck "sellout." I can't wait till my >> music's >>> good enough to make me a sellout! Of course, I'd never try to sue >>> Napster... that's just stupid. >>> >>> Zzb >>> >>> >>> >>> --- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote: >>>> man I hope he didn't approve this: >>>> >>>> I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug >> War >>>> >>>> commercial here in the US... >>>> >>>> This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion >> really >>>> >>>> mattered to him... >>>> >>>> But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at >> the >>>> >>>> same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm... >>>> >>>> Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind.... >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> ===== >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >>> http://auctions.yahoo.com/ >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >> >> > > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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On Wed, 9 May 2001, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote: // Did any of you actually start to drink more Coke because of Amon? nope.. i think the laws of physics actually prevent me from ingesting any more Coke than i already do in a typical day. i did start listening to (more) IDM because of Aphex Twin. so now i know where that all-too-familiar song in that Coke commercial is from. i'd been trying to put my finger on that one forever. odd that i didn't make the Amon Tobin connection. anyway, thank you IDM-list, you've come through once again! ;] - jo5_h beep boop muthafuckers http://braineater.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I don't care what commericial advertises what and uses an Amon Tobin song in the background, I thought it was really kick ass to hear Amon Tobin on television. He kicks ass, and hearing his kick ass music kick ass on your average slobs television is kick ass. kick ass when does the new amon tobin come out? On Wed, 9 May 2001, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote:

quoted 175 lines We tried to get a free Coke machine for the office on the back end of that

> We tried to get a free Coke machine for the office on the back end of that > deal but it never came through. Probably a good thing seeing as I already > have a rampant caffeine addiction. We also tried for the free BMW for Amon > but no luck. Let's put it in perspective here. In this day and age everyone > should be able to see through advertising. Amon doesn't stand behind Coke > one way or another, he's not their poster boy. It's just collecting a good > deal of money to have a track he already recorded used. He can then use said > money to spend more time not having a day job and making more music. Moby > made a very good point in an interview, you can either take their money or > they'll just go and hire someone unknown to make a track that kind of sounds > like your track they wanted and everyone will think it's you anyway. So > might as well take the money and put it to good use. It's doing more good in > the pockets of your favorite artists than it is in someone elses. You > shouldn't read so much into it. It's just music in the background of a > message that you either agree with or don't, a product you like or don't. > Did any of you actually start to drink more Coke because of Amon? > > Jeff > > > on 5/9/01 2:18 PM, Lander at gamera_@yahoo.com wrote: > > > --- Christopher Dilkus <cpdilkus@snip.net> wrote: > >> Does this mean Amon Tobin has to drink Coke and drive whateverthefuck > >> kind > >> of car that was in the commercial? Wow, the Beatles must have worn > >> Nike's > >> ('cept Lennon, he was dead) cause they let Nike used Revolution in a > >> commercial... > >> > >> Dil > > > > Oh antagonistic yet musically appreciative soul-brother of mine, > > > > I think we agree in spirit but I'm sure you missed my point. Cars and > > shoes are not necessarily ideas or forces of politics, and it can safely > > be said, I think, that one does not agree or disagree with shoes on a > > fundamentally philosophical level if one has already chosen to be a > > popular mainstream musician. > > The WoD is a different matter. It is ALL about ideas, Theirs vs. Mine. > > *My idea is that it is a case of the medicine being worse than the > > disease: drug addiction can often be cured and bodies can usually heal, > > but there is no known remedy for decades in prison without parole. > > *Their idea is that druggies should go to jail and rot for their sins. > > Give me crack over the misguided vengeance of the US government any day-- > > it's more hopeful. Clear philosophical differences here! > > > > HOWEVER, as Atomly pointed out, RDJ might not have even known about the > > whole thing until he recieved a check in the mail. I tried to lace my > > post liberally with the word "if", but perhaps it was, however important, > > overlooked. > > > > My whole point was that > > -RDJ is not necessarily a sellout because the music was in some commercial > > -even IF he knew about it and agreed with the message of the commercial he > > still isn't a sellout > > -even IF he somehow is a sellout (whatever the hell a sellout is), it > > doesn't mean his music suddenly sucks > > -finally, to not buy Aphex Twin recordings because of this whole debacle > > is absolutely ridiculous. > > Agreed? > > > > > > tryin to keep it about the music, > > Zzb E Z7T > > > > > > > >> > >>> RDJ must be very proud... people are willing to fly in the face of > >> FACTS > >>> (re: racism and the drug war) in order to defend his integrity. Here's > >>> another statistic for ya-- this one totally unscientific and drawn from > >> my > >>> own experience; take it for what it is: 90% of white people I know > >> think > >>> the drug war is not racist, and about 90% of non-white people I know > >> think > >>> it is. 90%=/=100%-10%, 90%==large majority. Try this at home folks, > >> ask > >>> all your friends. What does this mean? I dunno, I just think it's a > >>> weird contradiction. > >>> As for sellout-hood, I think RDJ's beliefs have no bearing whatsoever > >> on > >>> the quality of his art. Nor does his selling a song for use in a > >>> commercial (if that's, in fact, what happened). An artist is an > >> artist. > >>> Look at Wagner... he was an anti-semite (Hitler's favorite composer), a > >>> misogynist, and an all-around asshole, but he wrote some of the most > >>> beautiful music ever invented. In my opinion. His attitudes make me > >>> nauseous but his music makes me want to cry, it's so good (np: "Good > >>> Friday Spell" from Parsifal, Richard Wagner). If RDJ believes that > >> drug > >>> use is evil and that the War on Drugs is a good way to end it, so what? > >>> I'll by his discs anyway, cuz The Man had to pay him with money that > >> could > >>> be going towards locking up some poor kid for 30 years who got caught > >> ONCE > >>> with some weed. Money to RDJ=RDJ keeps living=more AFX music, and > >> that's > >>> a good thing. He's only a sellout if he takes money for doing > >> something > >>> that's contrary to his beliefs, and even that wouldn't have any bearing > >> on > >>> the quality of his music, would it? Only if he was writing political > >>> propaganda music, I guess. Fuck "sellout." I can't wait till my > >> music's > >>> good enough to make me a sellout! Of course, I'd never try to sue > >>> Napster... that's just stupid. > >>> > >>> Zzb > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote: > >>>> man I hope he didn't approve this: > >>>> > >>>> I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug > >> War > >>>> > >>>> commercial here in the US... > >>>> > >>>> This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion > >> really > >>>> > >>>> mattered to him... > >>>> > >>>> But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at > >> the > >>>> > >>>> same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm... > >>>> > >>>> Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind.... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ===== > >>> > >>> > >>> __________________________________________________ > >>> Do You Yahoo!? > >>> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > >>> http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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early next year. He's just back from some gigs in Brazil. In studio now working on next record and a mix for upcoming Foetus remix record.

quoted 1 line when does the new amon tobin come out?

> when does the new amon tobin come out?

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quoted 2 lines early next year. He's just back from some gigs in Brazil. In studio now

>early next year. He's just back from some gigs in Brazil. In studio now >working on next record and a mix for upcoming Foetus remix record.

Speaking of which, the new Foetus - "Flow" - is amazing. Not IDM at all, rather grab-you-by-the-balls-and-groove-you-like-it-or-not kind of stuff. Highly recommended. Ouch. -- _____ omz _____ beautamous loaf recordings http://www.mp3.com/stations/beautamous_loaf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I will go on record as saying that I will cheerfully sell my songs to the following companies to be used for advertisements: Bass Ale Guinness BMW Coke inspirational anti-drug/pro sports commercials targetted at urban kids Probably a few others. Hell, I'd be proud to support products I like. I'm surprised these companies aren't pounding on my door for my music, too. Wonder why... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Lander said...

quoted 5 lines I think we agree in spirit but I'm sure you missed my point. Cars and

> I think we agree in spirit but I'm sure you missed my point. Cars and > shoes are not necessarily ideas or forces of politics, and it can safely > be said, I think, that one does not agree or disagree with shoes on a > fundamentally philosophical level if one has already chosen to be a > popular mainstream musician.

The problem with Nike isn't the shoes, it's how they are produced and the conditions of employment/wages of the worker's.

quoted 7 lines The WoD is a different matter. It is ALL about ideas, Theirs vs. Mine.

> The WoD is a different matter. It is ALL about ideas, Theirs vs. Mine. > *My idea is that it is a case of the medicine being worse than the > disease: drug addiction can often be cured and bodies can usually heal, > but there is no known remedy for decades in prison without parole. > *Their idea is that druggies should go to jail and rot for their sins. > Give me crack over the misguided vengeance of the US government any day-- > it's more hopeful. Clear philosophical differences here!

Actually, the most important factors in the WoD in the US are political and ecconomic, not the benefits/problems with the drugs themselves or how one should deal with an addict. If it actually was about the drugs then no inteligent person would want to criminalise drug use. All the evidence suggests that the problems caused by drug use stem from the fact that they are illegal (I dont have any figures to hand, but i'm mainly talking about studies on heroin use in the Netherlands) and also due to the fact that goverments cant run countries properly (class inequality/shit education etc..). The reason most drugs were criminalised in the first place is ecconomic/political. Cannabis was criminalsized in the US mainly because of the power of US paper and logging companies & the main reason for the US aid to Columbia is to fight the Columbian revolutionaries whose main source of income comes from drug traffiking. You're right to say that prison sentences would be much worse than any medical cures or rehab clinics or whatever. btw i seriously doubt that AFX had any idea about the ad, and i wouldn't care if he did. even if he was a sellout (and i don't think his support for the ad would make him one, even if he does use or approve of drug use) i'd still buy his records coz they sound nice.... btw2 i doubt warp would have given the go ahead for the ad seeing as the RDJ Album wasn't released by warp in the US. I think it was Elektra or Sire?? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 34 lines The WoD is a different matter. It is ALL about ideas, Theirs vs.

> > The WoD is a different matter. It is ALL about ideas, Theirs vs. > Mine. > > *My idea is that it is a case of the medicine being worse than the > > disease: drug addiction can often be cured and bodies can usually > heal, > > but there is no known remedy for decades in prison without parole. > > *Their idea is that druggies should go to jail and rot for their sins. > > Give me crack over the misguided vengeance of the US government any > day-- > > it's more hopeful. Clear philosophical differences here! > > Actually, the most important factors in the WoD in the US are political > and > ecconomic, not the benefits/problems with the drugs themselves or how > one > should deal with an addict. If it actually was about the drugs then no > inteligent > person would want to criminalise drug use. > All the evidence suggests that the problems caused by drug use stem from > the fact that they are illegal (I dont have any figures to hand, but i'm > mainly talking > about studies on heroin use in the Netherlands) and also due to the fact > that > goverments cant run countries properly (class inequality/shit education > etc..). > The reason most drugs were criminalised in the first place is > ecconomic/political. > Cannabis was criminalsized in the US mainly because of the power of US > paper > and logging companies & the main reason for the US aid to Columbia is to > fight > the Columbian revolutionaries whose main source of income comes from > drug > traffiking.

Interesting stuff for me to mull over about the origins of crimnalization, but you can't discount the moral roots of the anti-drug movement. To make a sweeping generalization that I realize leaves huge gaps WRT the government's attitudes towards drugs, America was founded by puritans and the idea is still present in the unconscious of american popular culture that fun is evil. Pleasurable things are described constantly as "sinful" or "decadent." George Thorogood was "bad to the bone." It's all there in front of us, shaping our attitudes and perceptions in this country, but it's so ubiquitous that people generally don't notice it. And some people beleive it much more strongly than others, and conservative politicians (that is, all politicians that manage to get elected to major office), tend to be those people. Sure we vote for the guys, but they make the laws, and many of them sincerely believe that drugs are sinful. You might even go so far as to say that, in the War on Drugs, the economic and political considerations are merely justification for a post-religious jihad of sorts. Or you might not go that far, I dunno. Why don't they try to outlaw chocolate or sex? Because drugs really do hurt people, and can destroy lives and families, and are, more importantly (said with cynicism on 11), an easy political target in America 2001. Whatever the Drug War Generals' intentions are, they certainly seem to come accross as equally anti-drug and anti-user (-seller, -maker, whatever). Both the product and the person are destroyed with impunity. And, uh, how about that Confield, huh? Lamely attempting to stay on-topic, Zzb ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 9 lines Lander wrote:

> Lander wrote: > > Why don't they > try to outlaw chocolate or sex? Because drugs really do hurt people, and > can destroy lives and families, and are, more importantly (said with > cynicism on 11), an easy political target in America 2001. > Whatever the Drug War Generals' intentions are, they certainly seem to > come accross as equally anti-drug and anti-user (-seller, -maker, > whatever). Both the product and the person are destroyed with impunity.

Well dome kinds of sex do hurt people (in a bad way), but those types are already illegal. Bad diet can hurt people (if they eat too much over a period of many years and die of heart failure etc) but people are left to control their own (ab)use of chocolate. And oh yeah, *cough* tobacco and alcohol *cough* are extremely harmful to humans yet the profits from the sale of booze and cigarettes are used to fund numerous political things (in the US particularly). The UK government actively discourage smoking and put so much tax on cigarettes that a pack of 20 now costs nearly GBP5 (USD7.50). Try to imagine a world where tobacco is banned, but crack cocaine is totally legal, like the two products had switched places. You're allowed a certain number of crack-breaks at work. The government is sponsored by crack. Sounds terrible, doesn't it? Admittedly, tobacco and crack aren't that similar, but they're both addictive, smokeable, and damage your internal workings in some way. There was a movie I saw a while ago called "Deep Cover" where Jeff Goldblum was trying to invent a wonder-drug which made you feel great, wasn't addictive, and wasn't harmful in any way. Surely this would be a great thing...why doesn't the government actively fund research into this? G-love. http://www.gram.org.uk _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

The UK government actively discourage smoking and

quoted 4 lines put

> put > so much tax on cigarettes that a pack of 20 now costs nearly GBP5 > (USD7.50). >

Ugh! Sick! Those evil bastards! Seriously though, good for them I suppose... but I'm staying home with my USD2.75 smokes anyway. Zzb ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug War

> I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug War > commercial here in the US... > > This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion really > mattered to him...

Didn't you get the letter that he sent to everyone on this list asking our permission? Mine came priority post. I was most impressed. This is all so strange, considering when you play Windowlicker backwards you can clearly hear Aphex saying "Smoke some more pot you stupid motherfuckers. Do as I say and exalt me... for I am your god."

quoted 1 line Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind....

> Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind....

No way! Aphex could take on Metallica AND the Terminator and walk away without a scratch. You obviously didn't see the scrap between Aphex and the three bad guys from Superman II... no contest. Doug --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 8 May 2001, Joshua Brown wrote:

quoted 4 lines man I hope he didn't approve this:

> man I hope he didn't approve this: > > I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug War > commercial here in the US...

just have came to my mind that i saw the '8mm' movie w/ nicholas cage, and the bad guy at the end of the film plays come to daddy on vinyl in his house. yep, that really made my flesh creep. oh boy. bias.i.want.to.eat.your.soul. malenkaja.voda.[70].222.3540.............ssaJ6oJd u! owep d3 peolf!yS:se!8 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org