179,854Messages
9,130Senders
30Years
342mboxes

← archive index

Re: [idm] assumptions and generalizations

7 messages · 5 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 3 subjects: assumptions and generalizations · dsp for the sake of dsp (was:old vs. new autechre) · the haters
2001-01-27 20:24jon anderson [idm] dsp for the sake of dsp (was:old vs. new autechre)
2001-01-27 20:56Rjyan Kidwell Re: [idm] the haters
├─ 2001-01-28 08:02Matt U Re[2]: [idm] the haters
└─ 2001-01-28 17:42Kent williams Re: [idm] the haters
└─ 2001-01-28 21:04diverse_genders Re: [idm] the haters
└─ 2001-01-29 00:48Kent williams [idm] assumptions and generalizations
└─ 2001-01-29 00:52diverse_genders Re: [idm] assumptions and generalizations
expand allcollapse allclick any summary to toggle that message
2001-01-27 20:24jon anderson>People have said: > >> i don't like a lot of the "dsp for the sake of >dsp"... > >I'm jus
From:
jon anderson
To:
Date:
Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:24:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
[idm] dsp for the sake of dsp (was:old vs. new autechre)
permalink · <20010127202456.12213.qmail@web615.mail.yahoo.com>
quoted 12 lines People have said:>People have said: > >> i don't like a lot of the "dsp for the sake of >dsp"... > >I'm just curious, what are some examples of stuff >that's just "dsp for >the sake of >dsp" ? >I suppose you could make that argument about Kid606's >stuff, but what >else ?
************************** it's kind of subjective. a track is "dsp for the sake of dsp" if it's got loads of dsp, but nothing else of interest. but who's to judge that the underlying structure is in fact "insubstantial" or "uninteresting"? the only thing i feel i have the right to say on this subject is that one should simply be aware that sound (digital processes and effects in particular) is one thing, and the organization of those sounds another. it is possible to do interesting things with either the sound or the organization, but often it is neither. it becomes bothersome when you hear a very cliche type of process (like "granularization" - a good example is right at the very beginning of track 3 (tewe) on chiastic slide - sounds kinda like a modem connecting to the internet) being applied to decorate or disguise an otherwise boring phrase or song. it's just too easy to use these types of processes in a routine way, so then it comes off gimmicky. imagine if you will, a generic autechre beat that goes something like this: [thud-ch-ch-thud-ch-ch-ch-thud-ch-ch-thud-ch-ch-ch...] now add some very clicky glitchy sound for a hihat and slap on some long whiney granularized sound combined with maybe snippets of something else you time-stretched or whatever with some other process: [wanka-wanka-wiiiiiiiiieeeeeeaaaaaaaooooooo-bzzt-bz-b] Now you have an ae beat that with cool sounds and the idm-people will accept it. of course, you could put some more work into it. maybe try to sort of copy a nice melody you heard funkstorung do, but rearrange the notes a little. make a nice floaty pingy low frequency synth with a long release time in reaktor. but then, sometimes the processing or sound collection is actually very interesting in it's own right, in which case you can drop the requirement that the "underlying structure" be interesting also. that's cool with me. so i wouldn't give an "example" of "just dsp" because it's too subjective, but i believe it really is out there. jon __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-01-27 20:56Rjyan Kidwell> so i wouldn't give an "example" of "just dsp" because > it's too subjective, but i belie
From:
Rjyan Kidwell
To:
jon anderson ,
Date:
Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:56:47 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] the haters
permalink · <004601c088a3$aaa71fa0$c57ff2d0@JHU.EDU>
quoted 2 lines so i wouldn't give an "example" of "just dsp" because> so i wouldn't give an "example" of "just dsp" because > it's too subjective, but i believe it really is out there.
This argument is completely worthless if everyone making it is too pussy to name names. If this phenomenon is so wide-spread that people on this list bring it up once a week, I'd think the examples would be bountiful. Otherwise, you just look like a hater who wants to put down some exaggerated trend in electronic music in order to posture yourself as a TRUE connoisseur of "IDM". -rk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-01-28 08:02Matt UBut Jon IS that connoisseur. Matt Saturday, January 27, 2001, 2:56:47 PM, Rjyan wrote: >>
From:
Matt U
To:
Date:
Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:02:49 -0600
Subject:
Re[2]: [idm] the haters
Reply to:
Re: [idm] the haters
permalink · <1157593894.20010128020249@mindspring.com>
But Jon IS that connoisseur. Matt Saturday, January 27, 2001, 2:56:47 PM, Rjyan wrote:
quoted 2 lines so i wouldn't give an "example" of "just dsp" because>> so i wouldn't give an "example" of "just dsp" because >> it's too subjective, but i believe it really is out there.
quoted 6 lines This argument is completely worthless if everyone making it is too pussy to> This argument is completely worthless if everyone making it is too pussy to > name names. If this phenomenon is so wide-spread that people on this list > bring it up once a week, I'd think the examples would be bountiful. > Otherwise, you just look like a hater who wants to put down some exaggerated > trend in electronic music in order to posture yourself as a TRUE connoisseur > of "IDM".
quoted 1 line -rk> -rk
quoted 3 lines ---------------------------------------------------------------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-01-28 17:42Kent williamsI can't believe the utter stupidity of even discussing this. THE ONLY TIME YOU HEAR ACTUAL
From:
Kent williams
To:
i'd do mary
Date:
Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:42:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] the haters
Reply to:
Re: [idm] the haters
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.1010128113611.2586B-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
I can't believe the utter stupidity of even discussing this. THE ONLY TIME YOU HEAR ACTUAL MUSIC IS WHEN SOMEONE PLAYS AN ACOUSTIC INSTRUMENT WITHIN THE RANGE OF YOUR UNAUGMENTED EARS. Everything else is DSP fuckery. Check out a copy of Mix Magazine sometime and read one of the blow by blow descriptions of recording and mixing a pop hit. Artists like Cex, Kid606, Kit Clayton, etc conceptually turn the artifice of mass culture pop on their head, by flaunting and abusing the tools the majors use to fool you into thinking you're hearing music. It's the musical equivelant of the Centre Pompidou, with all the ductwork and conduit on the outside. Shit, most of y'all probably don't even LIKE music that can be made by a human being without electricity. Judge music on whether it moves you or not. Don't whine about the electrons people shove around. kent williams -- kent@avalon.net http://www.cornwarning.com -- Iowa's First Techno Record Label http://www.mp3.com/chaircrusher -- tunes --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-01-28 21:04diverse_gendersOn Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Kent williams wrote: > Shit, most of y'all probably don't even LIKE m
From:
diverse_genders
To:
Kent williams
Cc:
i'd do mary
Date:
Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:04:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] the haters
Reply to:
Re: [idm] the haters
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010128130235.20885A-100000@falco.kuci.uci.edu>
On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Kent williams wrote:
quoted 2 lines Shit, most of y'all probably don't even LIKE music that can be made by a> Shit, most of y'all probably don't even LIKE music that can be made by a > human being without electricity.
i like assumptions and generalizations. they are sooooo damn cute! makes me want to cuddle! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-01-29 00:48Kent williamsOn Sun, 28 Jan 2001, diverse_genders wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Kent williams wrote:
From:
Kent williams
To:
i'd do mary
Date:
Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:48:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
[idm] assumptions and generalizations
Reply to:
Re: [idm] the haters
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.1010128184404.24158A-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, diverse_genders wrote:
quoted 9 lines On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Kent williams wrote:> > On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Kent williams wrote: > > > Shit, most of y'all probably don't even LIKE music that can be made by a > > human being without electricity. > > i like assumptions and generalizations. > they are sooooo damn cute! makes me want to cuddle! >
Yeah, as they say, EVERYONE likes to make broad sweeping generalizations. I think though that the qualifications 'most of you ...' and 'probably ...' keep this from being a broad, sweeping generalization. And that was just one part of my post, and not a part that represents the whole. So I'll see your accusation of generalization, and raise you a quoting out of context! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-01-29 00:52diverse_gendersOn Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Kent williams wrote: > On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, diverse_genders wrote: >
From:
diverse_genders
To:
Kent williams
Cc:
i'd do mary
Date:
Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:52:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] assumptions and generalizations
Reply to:
[idm] assumptions and generalizations
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010128165129.1568A-100000@falco.kuci.uci.edu>
On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Kent williams wrote:
quoted 1 line On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, diverse_genders wrote:> On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, diverse_genders wrote:
quoted 11 lines i like assumptions and generalizations.> > i like assumptions and generalizations. > > they are sooooo damn cute! makes me want to cuddle! > > > Yeah, as they say, EVERYONE likes to make broad sweeping generalizations. > > I think though that the qualifications 'most of you ...' and 'probably ...' > keep this from being a broad, sweeping generalization. And > that was just one part of my post, and not a part that represents the whole. > > So I'll see your accusation of generalization, and raise you a quoting > out of context!
but does it make you want to cuddle? a listmember DOES have his priorities, you know. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org