IDM Mailing Archive

kurt wrote:

quoted 10 lines Ian Pojman wrote:

>> Ian Pojman wrote: >> >> 2) ALL music is loops. And manipulations thereof. Name me ONE sort of music > that doesnt and, well, I'll fuck a dog or something. Thats how sure I am. > > WOW!! OK, yeah, you have to fuck a dog. > > any of the John Cage pieces composed by random processes is not loop based. > > kurt

uhhh, yo kurt? I havent heard Cage actually. I bet hes nice or whatever. but what I meant was.... loops==organization==the definition of music. And Ive heard cage is good (i think?>) - if all it is is randomly generated wankery I really dont think Id have that much interest. Theme plays an important role to me, in music. Thats why I hate the majority of noise -- its just that. get my point now? Delph0r --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Ian Pojman <ipojman@jmlafferty.com> wrote: : uhhh, yo kurt? I havent heard Cage actually. I bet hes nice or whatever. but : what I meant was.... loops==organization==the definition of music. Music isn't about organization, though it involves organization. Organization isn't about loops, though a loop is a type of organization. You can play with word definitions all you want, but the concepts only have a few similarities and connections between them -- they're hardly equivalences. : And Ive : heard cage is good (i think?>) - if all it is is randomly generated wankery : I really dont think Id have that much interest. Cool. You'd probably not like Cage, since he's the source of much of the "randomly generated wankery" in modern music. He's more important as an influence than for his pieces themselves, though some are quite fine. You'd be doing yourself a favor to learn about him, whether you wind up liking him or hating him. It's hard to think of someone who had a more profound affect on the arts in the 20th Century, though some would argue that this is hardly a good thing. : Theme plays an important : role to me, in music. Thats why I hate the majority of noise -- its just : that. get my point now? I think that themes, broadly defined, are central to most people's experience of music. But noises can be used in thematic ways. Even random operations can be organized to form themes, as Cage did. But a theme isn't the same as a loop, nor is music just themes (nor does it require them, though it usually has them). I suppose I could be crass and say that there is a Rottweiler with your name on it, but you seem to have backed away from the all-music-is-a-loop position in any case. -Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 16 lines Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:57:56 -0800

> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:57:56 -0800 > To: Ignorance Demands Martyrdom <idm@hyperreal.org> > From: Ed Hall <edhall@weirdnoise.com> > Subject: Re: [idm] Re: music in loops / Cage / lala music lallala > Message-Id: <200012162157.NAA00868@screech.weirdnoise.com> > > Ian Pojman <ipojman@jmlafferty.com> wrote: > > : uhhh, yo kurt? I havent heard Cage actually. I bet hes nice or whatever. but > : what I meant was.... loops==organization==the definition of music. > > Music isn't about organization, though it involves organization. > Organization isn't about loops, though a loop is a type of organization. > You can play with word definitions all you want, but the concepts only > have a few similarities and connections between them -- they're hardly > equivalences.

True, perhaps I should say loops>>organization<<the definition of music. What the hell ever tho... Music = organized noise. If thats not a title with ambiguity, what is?

quoted 11 lines : And Ive

> : And Ive > : heard cage is good (i think?>) - if all it is is randomly generated wankery > : I really dont think Id have that much interest. > > Cool. You'd probably not like Cage, since he's the source of much of the > "randomly generated wankery" in modern music. He's more important as an > influence than for his pieces themselves, though some are quite fine. You'd > be doing yourself a favor to learn about him, whether you wind up liking > him or hating him. It's hard to think of someone who had a more profound > affect on the arts in the 20th Century, though some would argue that this > is hardly a good thing.

I've heard of another composer who had a piece that was short, and just the effects of a bewildered, increasingly aggravated, and tricked "symphony" audience that heard nothing but silence eminate the room.......

quoted 9 lines : Theme plays an important

> : Theme plays an important > : role to me, in music. Thats why I hate the majority of noise -- its just > : that. get my point now? > > I think that themes, broadly defined, are central to most people's experience > of music. But noises can be used in thematic ways. Even random operations > can be organized to form themes, as Cage did. But a theme isn't the same > as a loop, nor is music just themes (nor does it require them, though it > usually has them).

Ok, great point! :) This is equivalent to my usage of the word loop.

quoted 3 lines I suppose I could be crass and say that there is a Rottweiler with your

> I suppose I could be crass and say that there is a Rottweiler with your > name on it, but you seem to have backed away from the all-music-is-a-loop > position in any case.

You know, theres just something about a those great danes that's so human-like. delphi --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org