IDM Mailing Archive

From http://www.freakytrigger.com/2000_05_28_hated.html : -------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARENT REASONABLE PEOPLE - WARP RECORDS You might have thought that Morse code had been rendered obsolescent by WAP phones and ISDN. Not so - the "dot-dash" lives on in its more irritating "bleep-blop" incarnation, thanks to Warp. Warp has been going for 10 years and have been churning out minimal mid-tempo bleepy nonsense relentlessly over this period. Techno chinstrokers will no doubt reminisce about the days of LFO, RAC and Tricky Disco (maybe not) but the reality was that they were all crap. LFOs "We are back" sounds like someone being beaten to death with a sampler in a back alley by a Dalek. Nightmares on Waxs "Smokers Delight" - give me strength. To commemorate 10 years of bleepfoolery, Warp released a double-album of its most important influences. Suffice to say, they were all losers like the Ital Rockers and Farley Jackmaster Funk, not to mention the long-suffering A Guy Called Gerald (i.e. "Vooooooooodoooooooo Ray" x 10 mins = yawn). Worse than old records on Warp are contemporary ones, which seem to be made mainly by a series of interchangeable bands with short names beginning with "P" (Plone, Plaid, Plod, Pond, Poor et al). These bands play songs constructed around three-finger chords on 19.99 keyboards - I think some of them have only newly graduated from playing Axel F in Dixons with one digit. Even worse than that are "techy" Warp bands - the likes of Autechre, Squarepusher and Boards of Canada. Give them a soldering iron and they think theyre the Aphex Twin. Yes, it is technically quite impressive that youve managed to wire a synthesizer to an Oric Atmos, via a Fairlight, a hoover and a blender. But no, the noise that comes out at the end is not even remotely musical (or interesting). A plea for Warp in a language they might understand- BLOP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP, BLOP BLOP BLOP, BLOP BLOP BLEEP, BLOP BLOP BLOP, BLEEP BLOP BLEEP BLEEP, BLEEP BLOP BLEEP BLEEP. For those of you with a WAPphone, thats "BOG OFF". Tanya Headon | dis/agree? | 6/1/2000 -------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

this horribly dissapointing. i think we should all collectivel flame her until her wires burn up. Even worse than that are "techy" Warp bands - the likes of Autechre,

quoted 21 lines Squarepusher and Boards of Canada. Give them a soldering iron and they

> Squarepusher and Boards of Canada. Give them a soldering iron and they > think theyre the Aphex Twin. Yes, it is technically quite impressive that > youve managed to wire a synthesizer to an Oric Atmos, via a Fairlight, a > hoover and a blender. But no, the noise that comes out at the end is not > even remotely musical (or interesting). > > A plea for Warp in a language they might understand- BLOP BLEEP BLEEP > BLEEP, BLOP BLOP BLOP, BLOP BLOP BLEEP, BLOP BLOP BLOP, BLEEP BLOP BLEEP > BLEEP, BLEEP BLOP BLEEP BLEEP. For those of you with a WAPphone, thats > "BOG OFF". > > Tanya Headon | dis/agree? | 6/1/2000 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ======================================================================= > Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> > ======================================================================= > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

-- my phone keeps ringing, or maybe that's just my ears shaun- http://www.mp3.com/5x it's good --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

it's a classic case of The Emperor's New clothes. yeah, it's just bleeps, bloops and noise, but if that's what you like ... there you go. if you don't bring the context of other experimental predecessors to something like Autechre's EP7, it is just going to sound like horrible noise. like i said before about Kid 606, the fact that people object to seomthing so vehemently means there must be something to it. reviews like this just demonstrate the fact that music like all art is entirely subjective and you can't base your own opinions on either critical praise or slag. bravo Tanya Headon. josh -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, 5x wrote:

quoted 46 lines this horribly dissapointing. i think we should all collectivel flame her until

> this horribly dissapointing. i think we should all collectivel flame her until > her wires burn up. > > > > > > > Even worse than that are "techy" Warp bands - the likes of Autechre, > > > Squarepusher and Boards of Canada. Give them a soldering iron and they > > think theyre the Aphex Twin. Yes, it is technically quite impressive that > > youve managed to wire a synthesizer to an Oric Atmos, via a Fairlight, a > > hoover and a blender. But no, the noise that comes out at the end is not > > even remotely musical (or interesting). > > > > A plea for Warp in a language they might understand- BLOP BLEEP BLEEP > > BLEEP, BLOP BLOP BLOP, BLOP BLOP BLEEP, BLOP BLOP BLOP, BLEEP BLOP BLEEP > > BLEEP, BLEEP BLOP BLEEP BLEEP. For those of you with a WAPphone, thats > > "BOG OFF". > > > > Tanya Headon | dis/agree? | 6/1/2000 > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ======================================================================= > > Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> > > ======================================================================= > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > -- > my phone keeps ringing, or maybe that's just my ears > > shaun- > http://www.mp3.com/5x > it's good > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines reviews like this just demonstrate the fact that music like all art is

> reviews like this just demonstrate the fact that music like all art is > entirely subjective and you can't base your own opinions on either > critical praise or slag.

Reviews like this give you very interesting insight to the music, even (and maybe especially) if you don't agree with them. Even better, you might find out that you agree with many points (which I certainly do) without reaching the same conclusions...

quoted 1 line bravo Tanya Headon.

> bravo Tanya Headon.

Have you read the rest of the site? It's terribly funny. I think she's having a kick doing that, and I'm having a kick reading it. So why flame her? On her list of request, she has Autechre ranking quite high, hope to see her developing her point further. [Whether or not a smiley should appear somewhere in the above message is left as an exercise to the reader.] -- Julien --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Julien Quint wrote:

quoted 1 line Have you read the rest of the site? It's terribly funny.

> Have you read the rest of the site? It's terribly funny.

What's the URL again? -Dayv! "Don't say I don't know what I'm talking about because you lack understanding." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:47:59 -0500 (CDT), Josh Davison wrote:

quoted 2 lines the fact that people object to

>the fact that people object to >seomthing so vehemently means there must be something to it.

This is just the sort of thing people say when they can't really justify something. That statement is so incorrect Certainly, it's good to not go along with the crowd. If everyone suddenly started eating their own feces and saying it was good, and doctors approved and said I wasn't going to die from eating my own feces, I *might* give it a shot. So suddenly kid-606 is the new thing, a few reviews said it was good, and I tried it out. It was like tasting my own shit. Horrible experience and a big waste of time. Just because people object to something vehemently does *NOT* mean there *MUST* be something to it. It might mean that there might be something to it, and it might be worth trying. Open-mindedness is a Good Thing. But let's not lapse into new-world-order catch phrases from the flower-child generation.

quoted 3 lines reviews like this just demonstrate the fact that music like all art is

>reviews like this just demonstrate the fact that music like all art is >entirely subjective and you can't base your own opinions on either >critical praise or slag.

Exactly. I, for one, like recent Warp releases. But rather than virtually saying that "because you don't like it must mean it's good," you might point out that many of the artists she cited (Plone, Autechre, Squarepusher, Boards Of Canada) are radically different from each other. BOC is hardly "bloop bloop bleep." Anyway, her kind of closed-minded review doesn't deserve a response. -Adam -- Adam Piontek [http://www.tcinternet.net/users/damek/] ICQ: 3456339 [damek@earthling.net] ... Understanding my arguments and agreeing with them are not, I suspect, the same thing. -- Carl Sagan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i agree with your argument against my statement ... let me restate myself differently so i don't sound so general ... given: an artistic endeavour -- be it theatre, music or visual art -- that is sufficiently outside the boundaries of current mainstream tastes as to elicit negative responses from those not pre-disposed to give such artworks the benefit of the doubt. given: an artist, usually bestowed with some merit from previous examples of their work that either fall within the boundaries of common taste or have influenced other works that fall into these boundaries. given: critics of the sort listed above, putting forth such negative responses. the negative review alone certainly doesn't justify the artwork. god no. the missing ingredient from my previous statement is the second given. the artist's reputation is key in deducing that what others may be interpreting as trash, noise, tunelessness, smut, etc., is actually a work of art that is exceeding the limits of what is NOW culturally acceptible, but is in fact expanding frontiers that can later be filled in by artists of a less ambitious bent. so really it's a combination of factors ... the negative reviews, usually containing some sort of undertone of "I don't get it", serve as more of a symptom or clue pointing to a cultural upheaval of some magnitude. this has been proven many times throughout history: the impressionists, igor stravinsky, ornette coleman, the beatles, pablo picasso, jackson pollock, aphex twin, autechre, jeff koons, etc. anyway i hope this clears up my point a little... negative reviews alone don't justify an artist ... they are a symptom that goes along with TRUE artistic achievement -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Adam Piontek wrote:

quoted 48 lines On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:47:59 -0500 (CDT), Josh Davison wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:47:59 -0500 (CDT), Josh Davison wrote: > >the fact that people object to > >seomthing so vehemently means there must be something to it. > > This is just the sort of thing people say when they can't really > justify something. That statement is so incorrect > > Certainly, it's good to not go along with the crowd. If everyone > suddenly started eating their own feces and saying it was good, and > doctors approved and said I wasn't going to die from eating my own > feces, I *might* give it a shot. > > So suddenly kid-606 is the new thing, a few reviews said it was good, > and I tried it out. It was like tasting my own shit. Horrible > experience and a big waste of time. > > Just because people object to something vehemently does *NOT* mean > there *MUST* be something to it. It might mean that there might be > something to it, and it might be worth trying. Open-mindedness is a > Good Thing. But let's not lapse into new-world-order catch phrases > from the flower-child generation. > > >reviews like this just demonstrate the fact that music like all art is > >entirely subjective and you can't base your own opinions on either > >critical praise or slag. > > Exactly. I, for one, like recent Warp releases. But rather than > virtually saying that "because you don't like it must mean it's > good," you might point out that many of the artists she cited (Plone, > Autechre, Squarepusher, Boards Of Canada) are radically different > from each other. BOC is hardly "bloop bloop bleep." > > Anyway, her kind of closed-minded review doesn't deserve a response. > -Adam > > -- > Adam Piontek [http://www.tcinternet.net/users/damek/] > ICQ: 3456339 [damek@earthling.net] > ... Understanding my arguments and agreeing with them are not, > I suspect, the same thing. -- Carl Sagan > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Am I correct in thinking that the work that Phoenicia has laid out in _Lily of the Valley_ is their best work yet? Where the now 3 years old (!) work of _Randa Roomet_ was dry and uninvolving, these new tasters have whetted my appetite and faith in Mr. Farinas' (et al) production talents. I didn't think _Lily of the Valley_ would be as good as others had intoned, but now I see I was remiss in waiting so long to get it. Faint praise be damned, I like it.

quoted 7 lines the negative reviews, usually containing some sort of undertone of "I

>the negative reviews, usually containing some sort of undertone of "I >don't get it", ------> > >this has been proven many times throughout history: the >impressionists, >igor stravinsky, ornette coleman, the beatles, pablo picasso, jackson >pollock, aphex twin, autechre, jeff koons, etc.

Um, you left off John Holmes. J np: Requiem for Ernesto's Passing (also called the central air unit) Join The Party @www.cpusa.org ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:21:30 -0500, James R McPherson wrote:

quoted 7 lines Am I correct in thinking that the work that Phoenicia has laid out in

>Am I correct in thinking that the work that Phoenicia has laid out in >_Lily of the Valley_ is their best work yet? Where the now 3 years old >(!) work of _Randa Roomet_ was dry and uninvolving, these new tasters >have whetted my appetite and faith in Mr. Farinas' (et al) production >talents. I didn't think _Lily of the Valley_ would be as good as others >had intoned, but now I see I was remiss in waiting so long to get it. >Faint praise be damned, I like it.

I agree. I haven't liked any Phoenecia previous to the material on Lily of the Valley. Randa Roomet was ok, but it was indeed rather dry. Everything else I've heard is garbage to my ears. In fact, pretty much everything on the previous schematic compilation was garbage to my ears. _Lily_ reaffirmed in my mind the potential of Schematic... -adam -- Adam Piontek [http://www.tcinternet.net/users/damek/] ICQ: 3456339 [damek@earthling.net] ... `:-| "Fascinating, Captain!" -- Spock --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: Adam Piontek <damek@earthling.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org>; James R McPherson <andregurov@juno.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [idm] phoenicia

quoted 16 lines On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:21:30 -0500, James R McPherson wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:21:30 -0500, James R McPherson wrote: > >Am I correct in thinking that the work that Phoenicia has laid out in > >_Lily of the Valley_ is their best work yet? Where the now 3 years old > >(!) work of _Randa Roomet_ was dry and uninvolving, these new tasters > >have whetted my appetite and faith in Mr. Farinas' (et al) production > >talents. I didn't think _Lily of the Valley_ would be as good as others > >had intoned, but now I see I was remiss in waiting so long to get it. > >Faint praise be damned, I like it. > > I agree. I haven't liked any Phoenecia previous to the material on > Lily of the Valley. Randa Roomet was ok, but it was indeed rather > dry. Everything else I've heard is garbage to my ears. In fact, > pretty much everything on the previous schematic compilation was > garbage to my ears. _Lily_ reaffirmed in my mind the potential of > Schematic... > -adam

You know IDM has really been disappointing recently and this post strikes me as one that is quite a good example. Just as a matter of politeness, and especially if you know the artist is on the list, it is fucking very disheartening seeing people refer to music as 'garbage.' If you don't like it, that's fine and you can say so and ideally explain why. But how about having some fucking manners, alright? This list was developed to foster a sense of community among those who enjoyed what was at the time very obscure music. Originally it was impossible for most of us to find anyone else in the same area who enjoyed what we had discovered. I still believe this list can be used to that end, and it's especially heartening to see people encourage and give criticism to the younger generation of artists that have developed around the list and were inspired by the music for which it was created. Please take a moment to think twice before you post comments like the one above. Yours, Gonzi Merchan. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org