IDM Mailing Archive

Over the past few days I've been listening to a lot of circa 1991-92 electronica/IDM (Old Orb, Seefeel, Renegade Soundwave, SAW2, Artificial Intelligence, old FSOL, etc) and I thought to myself that almost none of this fantastic music used any drum-n-bass gestures at all, and none involved anything like *gag* big beat. I thought also that this stuff holds up *extremely* well over time, whereas a lot of more recent stuff even by the same artists (i.e., RDJ) gets tired for me after one or two listens. I mean, how much drum and bass/breakbeat/big beat can you listen to before it loses it's novelty? And who's doing music in the tradition the aforementioned artists were practicing in 1992 (actually, I'd say BoC is to a certain extent, and some of Squarepusher's less hectic stuff does too). What happened to melodic, dancy, trippy dub? Beat-oriented ambient? It's all a wash of plinkityplinkitychikachikaboom 180+ bpm nowadays. Don't get me wrong, I love the speed and power of hard ass dnb, but right now I'm listening to the Orb's Adventures beyond the Ultraworld and I'm thinking damn this stuff is well-crafted and melodic and enveloping and I don't hear that much anymore. -Cf ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - c h r i s t ø p h e r f ª h e y . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ chris@raremedium.com 2 1 2 - 6 3 4 - 6 9 5 0 x 2 5 8 http://www.raremedium.com - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - .

On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:08:55 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 4 lines I mean, how much drum and bass/breakbeat/big beat can you listen to

> I mean, how much drum and bass/breakbeat/big beat can you listen to >before it loses it's novelty? And who's doing music in the tradition the >aforementioned artists were practicing in 1992 (actually, I'd say BoC is to >a certain extent, and some of Squarepusher's less hectic stuff does too).

i think the problem is that when it comes to breaks, all too often people treat it like some kind of competition to see who can make the most complex brain-bustingly intricate programming..... leaving far behind the only important criteria - making music that has something to say. anyone could do it - if they were bothered enough to.. we shouldn't get drawn into this race where the only possible destination seems to be up one's own arse. i forget who said it, but they described it pretty well - 'bloke techno' <waves> subconscious geography http://www.sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk

quoted 2 lines I mean, how much drum and bass/breakbeat/big beat can you listen to

> I mean, how much drum and bass/breakbeat/big beat can you listen to > before it loses it's novelty? And who's doing music in the tradition the

not much. well, breakbeat, plenty. i thin afrika bambattaa will hold up in another ten years. most drum and bass, no. bits and pieces? yes. the influence of it? yes. big beat, no. the only record worth listening to so far is the chem's, and that record is good because it plunders shamelessly from the best traditions of rock and old skool hip hop, while all the other big beat just sounds downloaded from them.

quoted 3 lines too). What happened to melodic, dancy, trippy dub? Beat-oriented

> too). What happened to melodic, dancy, trippy dub? Beat-oriented > ambient? It's all a wash of plinkityplinkitychikachikaboom 180+ bpm > nowadays.

orbital's still got it. boards of canada has that 'will be a classic' feel to it too. luke vibert dips into all the abovementioned worlds. catching up, rob

Christopher Fahey wrote:

quoted 6 lines Over the past few days I've been listening to a lot of circa 1991-92

> > Over the past few days I've been listening to a lot of circa 1991-92 > electronica/IDM (Old Orb, Seefeel, Renegade Soundwave, SAW2, Artificial > Intelligence, old FSOL, etc) and I thought to myself that almost none of > this fantastic music used any drum-n-bass gestures at all, and none involved > anything like *gag* big beat.

i totally agree. you do realize this makes us sound like grumpy old men, don't you? well, fuck it. i like it. although the orb and rsw and old fsol all use lotsa big funky drum loops, so i'm not sure what you're getting at with the big beat comment. other than that the "new school" big beat folk don't show nearly as much creativity in general as the originators.

quoted 1 line I thought also that this stuff holds up *extremely* well over time

> I thought also that this stuff holds up *extremely* well over time

me too. RSW "in dub" still sounds light years ahead of the pack. Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Plan: Eat right, exercise regularly, die anyway.

On 25 Jun 98, Jon Drukman wrote re: Re: (idm) 1991-92:

quoted 1 line RSW "in dub" still sounds light years ahead of the pack.

> RSW "in dub" still sounds light years ahead of the pack.

Interesting you make this point in particular: I recently lent a whack of my music to a friend who, on returning them to me and gratefully raving on about most of what I'd given him, commented specifically that Renegade SW in Dub sounded "dated". ... there's just no pleasing some folks, mutter mutter :-) I *

Christopher Fahey wrote:

quoted 6 lines I mean, how much drum and bass/breakbeat/big beat can you listen to

> I mean, how much drum and bass/breakbeat/big beat can you listen to >before it loses it's novelty? And who's doing music in the tradition the >aforementioned artists were practicing in 1992 (actually, I'd say BoC is to >a certain extent, and some of Squarepusher's less hectic stuff does too). >What happened to melodic, dancy, trippy dub? Beat-oriented ambient? It's all >a wash of plinkityplinkitychikachikaboom 180+ bpm nowadays.

How about the following for melodic, dancy, trippy dub? Kruder & Dorfmeister Tosca Statik Sound System Thievery Corporation Massive Attack/Mad Professor Grantby Rockers Hi Fi Smith & Mighty Sassi & Loco (A Stephen Mallinder alias) A lot of stuff on Cup of Tea records. Unfortunately (for me) this sort of stuff doesn't seem to get discussed here very often. Am I on the wrong list? Steve (another grumpy old man) ======================================================== Standard disclaimer: GESB accepts no responsibility for the contents nor the validity of this message. ========================================================

Christopher Fahey wrote: | I mean, how much drum and bass/breakbeat/big beat can you listen to | before it loses it's novelty? Novelty? Whether or not you mean to, you describe this kind of stuff as if it's a fad and like the stuff you like isn't. I'd suggest that's something of a bias on your part. This is pop music we're talking about, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Please, no flames - I mean "pop" as in it doesn't come from an academic tradition, and is just people tinkering away with the noises that move them... (And, yeah, I prefer the artists you list to most drum n bass. Particularly hate that drill'n'bass or whatever. Urrrgh. If you're gonna be fast and fiddly, head for the dance floor at least :-) | And who's doing music in the tradition the aforementioned artists were | practicing in 1992 (actually, I'd say BoC is to a certain extent, and | some of Squarepusher's less hectic stuff does too). What happened to | melodic, dancy, trippy dub? Beat-oriented ambient? What about B12? I thought they were still plugging away. Yeah, and BoC as you say. Funkstorung? Pole? Nonplace Urban Field? Sun Electric? All of these have _some_ fast rhythms on top of things, but none have either big sampled beats or fit my idea of drum n bass. If you are just thinking about clean synth sounds, and blatantly drum machine percussion sounds, I'm damn happy to think those things are dying! Michael "You know what? I'll call him Jet Jaguar..." http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html Site last updated 15/4/98

quoted 13 lines I recently lent a whack of my music to a friend who, on returning

> I recently lent a whack of my music to a friend who, on returning > them to me and gratefully raving on about most of what I'd given him, > commented specifically that Renegade SW in Dub sounded "dated". > > ... there's just no pleasing some folks, mutter mutter :-) > I > > On a similar note, I still think 'Don't fight it, feel it' and 'Higher > than the sun' by Primal Scream haven't dated at all. Are Primal Scream > IDM? I don't care. > > >

quoted 4 lines Don't get me wrong, I love the speed and power of hard ass dnb, but

> Don't get me wrong, I love the speed and power of hard ass dnb, but >right now I'm listening to the Orb's Adventures beyond the Ultraworld and >I'm thinking damn this stuff is well-crafted and melodic and enveloping and >I don't hear that much anymore.

I'd like to expand on this a bit and mention that the overall quality electronic music has seemed to have diminished over the last two years. Specifically, I'm not hearing the uniqueness I used to hear when the pile of new CDs arrived at the door. Would anyone agree...disagree? Granted, I'm probably hearing only a fraction of what's actually out there, but the success rate over the last two years have been no where as good as it was in the years '92-'96. Tim