IDM Mailing Archive

1997-10-13 02:34BrokenOn Sat, 11 Oct 1997, s.f.w.d. wrote: > Though, I wonder if restructuring of Coil releases

From:: Broken <hmshih@vger.rutgers.edu>
To:: <sfwd@sonic.net>
Cc:: Coil <john@loci.demon.co.uk>, <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:34:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?

On Sat, 11 Oct 1997, s.f.w.d. wrote:

quoted 7 lines Though, I wonder if restructuring of Coil releases has anything to do

> Though, I wonder if restructuring of Coil releases has anything to do > with Nothing not willing to go the extra mile to clear samples for > Coil... and wonder moreso if this was why The Life of The Mind was > excluded from the Nothing release of Drum and Bass for Papa... > Hmmm... as usual, Balance has gotten me going (usually happens with > his posts... =) Now looking forward to US re-releases of Coil to see > just what lawyers have done this time...

Actually, I specifically asked Luke if the record company didn't want to bother with clearing the samples on Life of the Mind and he said that Nonthing was more than willing to try and clear those samples in addition to all the P.E. samples in er... what song was that? Anyways, with Life of the Mind he didn't want to bother 'cause he felt there was no way in hell it would be cleared. Also he asked that I didn't reveal the source of the sample in print. Apparently, you have to get the permission of the filmmakers _and_ the actors. I talked w/him about his views on sampling and if/how the 'law' affects his work but unfortunately I haven't transcribed the interview yet. I'll post bits + pieces if people are interested. Howie

1997-10-13 17:52Random JunkBroken writes: > Actually, I specifically asked Luke if the record company didn't want to

From:: Random Junk <jsd@gamespot.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?
Reply to:: Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?

Broken writes:

quoted 8 lines Actually, I specifically asked Luke if the record company didn't want to

> Actually, I specifically asked Luke if the record company didn't want to > bother with clearing the samples on Life of the Mind and he said that > Nonthing was more than willing to try and clear those samples in > addition to all the P.E. samples in er... what song was that? Anyways, > with Life of the Mind he didn't want to bother 'cause he felt there was no > way in hell it would be cleared. Also he asked that I didn't reveal the > source of the sample in print. Apparently, you have to get the permission > of the filmmakers _and_ the actors.

interesting to hear his side of the story. i talked to a guy at Nothing who said they could have cleared it but they were going to take the money out of luke's royalties to pay for it and luke said he'd rather have the money. -- Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com SpotMedia Communications ...I was an infinitely hot and dense dot...

1997-10-13 21:04drew mcdowall>interesting to hear his side of the story. i talked to a guy at >Nothing who said they co

From:: drew mcdowall <drew@screwtape.demon.co.uk>
To:: Random Junk <jsd@gamespot.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:04:44 +0100
Subject:: Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?
Reply to:: Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?

quoted 7 lines interesting to hear his side of the story. i talked to a guy at

>interesting to hear his side of the story. i talked to a guy at >Nothing who said they could have cleared it but they were going to >take the money out of luke's royalties to pay for it and luke said >he'd rather have the money. > >-- >Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com SpotMedia Communications

the money for sample clearance always comes out of the artists royalties,if you have a lot of samples to clear it could end up costing more than your likely to see in returns.it could be that luke vibert couldn't avoid that hard financial reality. -drew np:pierre henry-messe pour la temps present(this is so completely brilliant and it's 30 years old)

1997-10-13 06:21discreet@generation.net>> >>it's called Matt using sarcasm to prove a point. Coldcut have always >>stood by the f

From:: <discreet@generation.net>
To:: drew mcdowall <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Mon, 13 Oct 97 02:21:05 -0400
Subject:: Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?

quoted 16 lines it's called Matt using sarcasm to prove a point. Coldcut have always

>> >>it's called Matt using sarcasm to prove a point. Coldcut have always >>stood by the fact that sampling shouldn't even be an issue if you are >>using your samples in an original way. There are loads of people that >>have sampled our Ninja records and we never went after them because we >> >i considered that it might be a joke and thought carefully before posting >the original message but i reread the article and it really doesn't come >across as sarcasm especially if you read the whole thing in context.but if >you know for a fact that it was sarcasm and your not just jumping to your >boss's defence regardless then i suppose we will have to put that down to >bad interview technique or sloppy journalism.i mean this is too important >to dismiss.for musicians that use sampling,it goes to the heart of what we >do. >ninja tune/coldcut can afford to buy their way out of trouble, others >aren't so fortunate.

If you know Matt at all, some times it can be difficult to tell how serious he is being. This opens him up to loads of quotes being taken out of context. Look no further than his 'it's not that we're so brilliant, it's that everyone else is crap' comment. I havn't actually seen the interview in question, but I can totally see Matt saying those things to point out the stupidity that is copyright infringement cases. As for us being able to buy our way out of trouble...Yes we could afford a minor charge or whatever, however if we were to get sued over the new Coldcut record we would be quite fucked. We certinatly don't have enough money to pull 10's of thousands of copies off shelfs and destroy them, not to mention all the legal fees and potential charges. We have been threatened with lawsuits before and yes, we have been sued a few times. It sucks. It's such a shitty issue. Usually the only people that will sue you are the ones that already have loads of cash and can afford to go through with it. It can be worked out so much more easily. If someone threatens to sue you and you are indeed guilty it's usually quite easy to work it out in a reasonable manner by offering some points on the royalties or publishing (just go to the source and keep the lawyers out of it...U2/Island vs. Negativland anyone?). We have actually gone on to work with people who we originally met because they were looking into the fact that we sampled them. It's the reason Coldcut got to remix James Brown.

quoted 3 lines Did you honestly think he was serious?

>> Did you honestly think he was serious? > >i believe people in the business are capable of anything.

This is true, however Ninja Tune didn't get this far by being assholes. If we were ever to do what Matt was implying it would be the end of the label. If people didn't kill us they would at least stop buying our records. We are music people first, business second. Even our lawyer is a hip-hop head.

quoted 6 lines I ment to say we will NOT be turning in any of our friends for

>>I ment to say we will NOT be turning in any of our friends for >>sampling. Mightly hypocritical if we did. > >so it's only your friends that are safe? anyone else better watch out? why >don't you invite matt black to post personally to the list to confirm that >he would not shop anyone for using uncleared samples.

Anyone who makes interesting music is a friend of Ninjas Take Care Jeff

1997-10-14 23:07drew mcdowall> >If you know Matt at all, some times it can be difficult to tell how >serious he is bein

From:: drew mcdowall <drew@screwtape.demon.co.uk>
To:: <discreet@generation.net>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:07:48 +0100
Subject:: Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?
Reply to:: Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?

quoted 7 lines If you know Matt at all, some times it can be difficult to tell how

> >If you know Matt at all, some times it can be difficult to tell how >serious he is being. This opens him up to loads of quotes being taken out >of context. Look no further than his 'it's not that we're so brilliant, >it's that everyone else is crap' comment. I havn't actually seen the >interview in question, but I can totally see Matt saying those things to >point out the stupidity that is copyright infringement cases.

i can appreciate that,the mix journalist probably didn't realise the implications of what matt was saying.

quoted 13 lines being able to buy our way out of trouble...Yes we could afford a minor

>being able to buy our way out of trouble...Yes we could afford a minor >charge or whatever, however if we were to get sued over the new Coldcut >record we would be quite fucked. We certinatly don't have enough money to >pull 10's of thousands of copies off shelfs and destroy them, not to >mention all the legal fees and potential charges. We have been threatened >with lawsuits before and yes, we have been sued a few times. It sucks. >It's such a shitty issue. Usually the only people that will sue you are >the ones that already have loads of cash and can afford to go through >with it. It can be worked out so much more easily. If someone threatens >to sue you and you are indeed guilty it's usually quite easy to work it >out in a reasonable manner by offering some points on the royalties or >publishing (just go to the source and keep the lawyers out of >it...U2/Island vs. Negativland anyone?). We have actually gone on to work

i take your point on all that.unless your a major label you can't really shrug that kind of thing off. what i would like to see is something similar to what exists in book and magazine publishing and that's the idea of fair use or quotation.you credit your sources and everyones happy.it's incredible really that the concept doesn't exist in music.

quoted 4 lines This is true, however Ninja Tune didn't get this far by being assholes.

>This is true, however Ninja Tune didn't get this far by being assholes. >If we were ever to do what Matt was implying it would be the end of the >label. If people didn't kill us they would at least stop buying our >records. We are music people first, business second. Even our lawyer is a

yeah true,from what i've heard coldcut have had their share of getting shafted by the business(big life?)

quoted 2 lines Anyone who makes interesting music is a friend of Ninjas

> >Anyone who makes interesting music is a friend of Ninjas

sorry i should have realised that's what you meant. -drew

1997-10-13 07:38Aphextw836@aol.comWhat I want to know is where people get off thinking they OWN music. To me, music is the l

From:: <Aphextw836@aol.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 03:38:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?

What I want to know is where people get off thinking they OWN music. To me, music is the language of emotions (or something of that respect). So to me, saying that the music you create is actually complete original to you is completely ridiculous. As if no other human would ever have shared the experience had you not graced them with your mistifyingly original musical intuition. The law uses this original creation story simply as an excuse to mask the real motives behind these law suites. Greed. (As if anyone didn't know that already) -Aaron p.s Has anyone else noticed how many "Aaron's" are on the IDM Mailing list?

Re: (idm) coldcut on rule 43?