IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 3 lines It's not at all like what reznor's doing, which is just adding electronica-

>It's not at all like what reznor's doing, which is just adding electronica- >esque sequences to his stale compositions and signing any electronic act he >can get his mitts on (EN?...please, come on....)

I am by no means a huge NIN fan, but Reznor deserves a bit more respect that this. First of all, it's not like he's now adding "electronica-esque sequences" for the first time. Come on, PRETTY HATE MACHINE came out in 1989 and had keyboards all over the place, not to mention LeBlanc, Sherwood, and Flood! Second, it's not like he's trying to be underground innovator extraordinaire, Reznor (like Depeche Mode) has always admitted to being pop and has been influenced by such artists as The Wolfgang Press and This Mortal Coil. Third, he's always been signing "electronic acts" (although I'd hardly call EN, who rather than sample the noise, just play the noise, see the drill, jackhammer, breaking glass, an "electronic act"...it's "industrial" in the true sense of the word)!! As soon as Nothing started out, Coil and PWEI were signed. I also want to mention the fact that Reznor has worked with Coil, Foetus, MBM, Puppy-members and Sherwood more than once. End of sermon! :) Again I realise Reznor isn't an innovator, but he's always been good at bringing the undergound to pop which is the same damn thing that Bowie and Eno did in the late 70s. -Mike

Michael Peter Stein wrote:

quoted 24 lines It's not at all like what reznor's doing, which is just adding electronica-

> > >It's not at all like what reznor's doing, which is just adding electronica- > >esque sequences to his stale compositions and signing any electronic act he > >can get his mitts on (EN?...please, come on....) > > I am by no means a huge NIN fan, but Reznor deserves a bit more respect that > this. First of all, it's not like he's now adding "electronica-esque > sequences" for the first time. Come on, PRETTY HATE MACHINE came out in 1989 > and had keyboards all over the place, not to mention LeBlanc, Sherwood, and > Flood! Second, it's not like he's trying to be underground innovator > extraordinaire, Reznor (like Depeche Mode) has always admitted to being > pop and has been influenced by such artists as The Wolfgang Press and This > Mortal Coil. Third, he's always been signing "electronic acts" (although > I'd hardly call EN, who rather than sample the noise, just play the noise, > see the drill, jackhammer, breaking glass, an "electronic act"...it's > "industrial" in the true sense of the word)!! As soon as Nothing started out, > Coil and PWEI were signed. I also want to mention the fact that Reznor has > worked with Coil, Foetus, MBM, Puppy-members and Sherwood more than once. > > End of sermon! :) Again I realise Reznor isn't an innovator, but he's always > been good at bringing the undergound to pop which is the same damn thing that > Bowie and Eno did in the late 70s. > > -Mike

Since this seems to STILL be around, I'll add my 2cents I don't lament the fact that T.Reznor is bringing 'underground beats' to the attention of the pop audiences, many before him performed similar acts to garnish their musical careers. What I do lament, however, is the trend that he started after Pretty Hate Machine (the sound of which I would attribute largely to the aforementioned LeBlanc, Sherwood, and Flood) remains unbroken, so to speak. It seems to me that every album he has released since Pretty Hate Machine has been about the same thing, with minor semantical variance thrown in to differ one track from another. This, coupled with the fact that the general tone, or mood of his music has gotten progressively more and more melancholic (at the expense of his earlier anger, age seems to have taken some of his fire) leads me to believe that he has done nothing besides attempt a continual polishing of the same theme(s) over and over. NOW add in the injection of beats (extremely simplified sounding too, I might add) from musical genres that others pioneered, and his supposed pop stylings of current underground trends look positively contrived. As a performer, he may be a success, and his record label may be capable as well, but IMO any artist who continues to rehash the same "style" over and over without themselves being able to contribute anything new to their own formulae, is merely second-rate. I would have to say that since music is such an excellent conveyor of emotion (especially under the influence), I seek more latitude than I find with Reznor. Compare Trent's work to Jack Danger's Meat Beat Manifesto stuff from the same time; Satyricon has been in my listen pile since it came out..... --- "...the implicate order is enfolded in the explicate order..."

In a message dated 97-05-29 15:18:31 EDT, you write: << i would think one could safetly say that a good many people who make the music which trent is now leeching off of did or do so for little more than the sake of expression or 'cos its "what they like to do" and ask/expect/try for little more than to earn a decent living through the music as the world doesnt exactally cater towards their types, where as trent reznor is merely cashing in on what the true artists are doing for no reason other than greed. >> Well if trent reznor is a leech then so is richard d james, luke vibert, booth and brown, ect.. i guess when richard d james decided to do a drum and bass track it was ok because its rdj, but if trent reznor decides to dabble in it he is a leech. The fact is every artist borrows out the ass, whether it be from your contempories or past artists. It's whether or not if the artist does so in his own voice and maybe with some degree of innovation or integrity. Reznor does so and so does vibert and rdj. Reznor does do his own sampling, but because he can afford to, he has others who also sample. wow. Instead of having a sample bank of 1000 sounds now he has 3000. Seems pretty smart to me. Ohh im sorry trent reznor isn't a "true artist", 98% of the stuff that appears on nin albums was created by him, but he isn't a "true artist". sometimes i just can't understand.

quoted 2 lines Well if trent reznor is a leech then so is richard d james, luke vibert,

> Well if trent reznor is a leech then so is richard d james, luke vibert, > booth and brown, ect..

"one of these things is not like the other ones...." :)

quoted 3 lines Reznor does do his

> Reznor does do his > own sampling, but because he can afford to, he has others who also sample. > wow.

It just seems ridiculous. Some people consider finding and creating samples and beats an artform in itself, DJ Shadow being an excellent example of this. When Shadow was on Metropolis last Jason Bentley told a story about how when Shadow was here last time he got up at 5am after djing all night so he could go to a swap meet to search the old records for beats. That is what I call devotion to ones art. Trent makes a mockery of it. I wonder if the bomb squad ever hired people to search for samples for them?

quoted 3 lines i guess when richard d james decided to do a drum

> i guess when richard d james decided to do a drum > and bass track it was ok because its rdj, but if trent reznor decides to > dabble in it he is a leech.

Basically yeah since richards been doing breakbeat tracks since 1990. The thought of trent making jungle makes some of us who truly love that music cringe. Mostly because trent reznor makes an idiot of himself with his ridiculous tortured soul posturing and his oh im so gloomy marketing gimmicks. I hate to see the music i'm into (aka plug) being associated with that and brought down to that level. oh well... _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

quoted 37 lines Well if trent reznor is a leech then so is richard d james, luke vibert,

>> Well if trent reznor is a leech then so is richard d james, luke vibert, >> booth and brown, ect.. > >"one of these things is not like the other ones...." :) > >> Reznor does do his >> own sampling, but because he can afford to, he has others who also sample. >> wow. > >It just seems ridiculous. Some people consider finding and creating >samples and beats an artform in itself, DJ Shadow being an excellent >example of this. When Shadow was on Metropolis last Jason Bentley told a >story about how when Shadow was here last time he got up at 5am after >djing all night so he could go to a swap meet to search the old records >for beats. That is what I call devotion to ones art. Trent makes a >mockery of it. I wonder if the bomb squad ever hired people to search >for samples for them? > >> i guess when richard d james decided to do a drum >> and bass track it was ok because its rdj, but if trent reznor decides to >> dabble in it he is a leech. > >Basically yeah since richards been doing breakbeat tracks since 1990. >The thought of trent making jungle makes some of us who truly love that >music cringe. Mostly because trent reznor makes an idiot of himself with >his ridiculous tortured soul posturing and his oh im so gloomy marketing >gimmicks. I hate to see the music i'm into (aka plug) being associated >with that and brought down to that level. > >oh well... > _____ > / ,-,_) > /,_) >(/ RESH >Live & Direct from the G-Spot, >Orange County, California, USA >http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

i knew you'd get it...

Gonzi \(Fresh\) writes:

quoted 3 lines It just seems ridiculous. Some people consider finding and creating

> It just seems ridiculous. Some people consider finding and creating > samples and beats an artform in itself, DJ Shadow being an excellent > example of this.

tell him he can quit wasting his time. i just got "endtroducing" and i can't see what all the fuss is about.

quoted 2 lines The thought of trent making jungle makes some of us who truly love that

> The thought of trent making jungle makes some of us who truly love that > music cringe.

why does it get you so upset? if the spice girls start doing jungle it isn't going to change my opinion about breaks one little bit.

quoted 3 lines Mostly because trent reznor makes an idiot of himself with

> Mostly because trent reznor makes an idiot of himself with > his ridiculous tortured soul posturing and his oh im so gloomy marketing > gimmicks.

i agree, the pose is old.

quoted 2 lines I hate to see the music i'm into (aka plug) being associated

> I hate to see the music i'm into (aka plug) being associated > with that and brought down to that level.

but interestingly, mr plug himself seems to have no problem with working with trent... his album is coming out on trent's label, he did a great remix of perfect drug... if it doesn't bother him, why does it bother you? -- Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com SpotMedia Communications ...I was an infinitely hot and dense dot...

On Thu, 29 May 1997, Random Junk wrote: } Gonzi \(Fresh\) writes: } > It just seems ridiculous. Some people consider finding and creating } > samples and beats an artform in itself, DJ Shadow being an excellent } > example of this. } } tell him he can quit wasting his time. i just got "endtroducing" and } i can't see what all the fuss is about. Gee, that's suprising. ;) That's a pretty weak argument for Shadow to stop "wasting" his time. Care to elaborate? | E r i c | [mail] franse@engr.arizona.edu | | F r a n s | [web] http://engr.arizona.edu/~franse | "Make the events occur that you want to occur" - The Black Dog

Eric Frans writes:

quoted 5 lines } tell him he can quit wasting his time. i just got "endtroducing" and

> } tell him he can quit wasting his time. i just got "endtroducing" and > } i can't see what all the fuss is about. > > Gee, that's suprising. ;) That's a pretty weak argument for > Shadow to stop "wasting" his time. Care to elaborate?

i'm working on detailed reviews of all the stuff i bought while in boston, but in a nutshell... the music doesn't change enough and isn't interesting in its own right. it sounds like backing tracks to rap songs. i keep waiting for the vocals to come in. but they don't. so i get bored and fast forward... -- Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com SpotMedia Communications ...I was an infinitely hot and dense dot...

On Thu, 29 May 1997, Random Junk wrote:

quoted 5 lines i'm working on detailed reviews of all the stuff i bought while in

> i'm working on detailed reviews of all the stuff i bought while in > boston, but in a nutshell... the music doesn't change enough and isn't > interesting in its own right. it sounds like backing tracks to rap > songs. i keep waiting for the vocals to come in. but they don't. so > i get bored and fast forward...

I agree completely with you.... while shadow as a dj may infact deserve the much-hyped reputation he's earned, his debut album was really not that captivating enough.... there were a few strong tracks, but hardly enough kick to justify an albums worth of song. Now, the new Herbaliser album on Ninjatune is damn good.... DJ Vadim single bores me to tears though. Seems like hippity hoppity bouncy music these days is pretty hit and miss..... Aaron

On Thu, 29 May 1997, Random Junk wrote:

quoted 12 lines Eric Frans writes:

> Eric Frans writes: > > } tell him he can quit wasting his time. i just got "endtroducing" and > > } i can't see what all the fuss is about. > > > > Gee, that's suprising. ;) That's a pretty weak argument for > > Shadow to stop "wasting" his time. Care to elaborate? > > i'm working on detailed reviews of all the stuff i bought while in > boston, but in a nutshell... the music doesn't change enough and isn't > interesting in its own right. it sounds like backing tracks to rap > songs. i keep waiting for the vocals to come in. but they don't. so > i get bored and fast forward...

I am quite thankful that there are few vocals on the DJ Shadow cd. Its definitely one of the better releases I heard last year. DJ Cam has released some cool stuff as well. William Samuels

quoted 4 lines but interestingly, mr plug himself seems to have no problem with

> but interestingly, mr plug himself seems to have no problem with > working with trent... his album is coming out on trent's label, he did > a great remix of perfect drug... if it doesn't bother him, why does it > bother you?

The reason Vibert is (dare I say..) eager in this respect, is because there is bunches o bucks involved for him for associating himself with Renzor's Nothing. He stands to potentially become a millionare.. I wouldn't have a problem with it either... But what Gonzi (and others) are talking about (and I think you know this) is that all the top 40 people who heard "I want to xxxx you like an animal.." on MTV will now associate meester Vibert with meester Reznor (and this Perf.Drug song is worse than that one). Its a simple case of guilty-by-association and tends to extract a little integrity from our,...ahem, underexposed artists that we dig so deeply. That's all.. no real mysteries here. Same syndrome as when meester James was being marketed so heavily with this latest album... just kinda freaks us Americans out a little to see rather silly-music-listening masses buying this sort of tune-age. -- FreyGuy <Everyday is Freyday> Network/Notes Administrator Hansen Corporation kevfrey@evansville.net kfrey@nyx.net http://www.evansville.net/~kevfrey/ "Step off, I'm doin' the HUMP!" - Digital Underground

In a message dated 97-05-29 20:22:53 EDT, kevfrey@evansville.net (FreyGuy) writes: << The reason Vibert is (dare I say..) eager in this respect, is because there is bunches o bucks involved for him for associating himself with Renzor's Nothing. He stands to potentially become a millionare.. I wouldn't have a problem with it either... But what Gonzi (and others) are talking about (and I think you know this) is that all the top 40 people who heard "I want to xxxx you like an animal.." on MTV will now associate meester Vibert with meester Reznor (and this Perf.Drug song is worse than that one). Its a simple case of guilty-by-association and tends to extract a little integrity from our,...ahem, underexposed artists that we dig so deeply. That's all.. no real mysteries here. Same syndrome as when meester James was being marketed so heavily with this latest album... just kinda freaks us Americans out a little to see rather silly-music-listening masses buying this sort of tune-age. >> ok. Meat Beat Manifesto, Pop Will Eat Itself, and others have all released music on nothing. none of them have become millonaries here in the states. the majority of the braindead Mtv fans are just too stupid to associate "reznor" with "nothing" :-) The only person to ever become popular on nothing was Marilyn Manson and that was because Trent literally molded him into a Trent, only streching the extremes.