IDM Mailing Archive

1997-04-04 20:20Greg Earle> I remember how confusing "Body and Soul"'s funky minimalism was when it > first came out

From:: Greg Earle <earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:20:51 -0800
Subject:: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

quoted 6 lines I remember how confusing "Body and Soul"'s funky minimalism was when it

> I remember how confusing "Body and Soul"'s funky minimalism was when it > first came out, especially after the lush and rather poppy "Groovy, Laidback > and Nasty", but in retrospect it was a rather historic album. Kirk's sense > of rhythm is just awesome. P.S. - this is full-on idm territory, not some > loser Industro-head waxing about yesteryear's glory days (although I do > wonder about that sometimes :-)

Well, if you were a "loser Industro-head" you'd be mumbling like me that you and Jon and everyone else has lost their minds! I dropped Cab Vol like a hot potato after "Microphonies" since (from a purist Industro-head's perspective) they'd *clearly* lost their original way and were making lame lukewarm non-Industrial and-damn-Mal's-actually-*singing*-now-blecch fodder. (Hey, that's what I thought back in '85-'86, so sue me ... plus, at that point I was finding what Chakk and Hula were doing to be more interesting than the Cabs' direction at that juncture.) I suppose the last 6-7 years of Techno immersion would probably have me revisit such a decision (heck, I've never even *heard* "Groovy ... "), but you might have seen things differently if you were a Cab Volt fanatic from day one ... (I was lucky enough to have seen CV Edition 1 back on October 20, 1980 with Young Marble Giants and L.A.'s Monitor. I'd just come off of having had acute tonsilitis and was loaded to the gills on Percodans and ganja. Now *that* was an interesting way to see a gig (-: ) Erm ... anyway, since Jon started this "ROOTS OF IDM" thing ... I'll toss out a couple more: John Foxx "Metamatic" (Virgin, 1980) Liasons Dangereuses [self-titled] (Teldec [Germany], 1982) I've babbled about both of these before ... - Greg

1997-04-05 04:02Microdot in the AquabahnOn Fri, 4 Apr 1997, Greg Earle wrote: > > I remember how confusing "Body and Soul"'s funky

From:: Microdot in the Aquabahn <solenoid@thetics.europa.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:02:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire
Reply to:: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

On Fri, 4 Apr 1997, Greg Earle wrote:

quoted 15 lines I remember how confusing "Body and Soul"'s funky minimalism was when it

> > I remember how confusing "Body and Soul"'s funky minimalism was when it > > first came out, especially after the lush and rather poppy "Groovy, Laidback > > and Nasty", but in retrospect it was a rather historic album. Kirk's sense > > of rhythm is just awesome. P.S. - this is full-on idm territory, not some > > loser Industro-head waxing about yesteryear's glory days (although I do > > wonder about that sometimes :-) > > Well, if you were a "loser Industro-head" you'd be mumbling like me that you > and Jon and everyone else has lost their minds! I dropped Cab Vol like a hot > potato after "Microphonies" since (from a purist Industro-head's perspective) > they'd *clearly* lost their original way and were making lame lukewarm > non-Industrial and-damn-Mal's-actually-*singing*-now-blecch fodder. > (Hey, that's what I thought back in '85-'86, so sue me ... plus, at that point > I was finding what Chakk and Hula were doing to be more interesting than the > Cabs' direction at that juncture.)

I follow this completely: I bought CV from '83 till I bought Code, was sorely disappointed that they were trying to make funk (yes, it was well produced, but it was so uninventive!) and abandoned them until '92 when I heard Sweet Exorcist and flipped! I never did hear Groovy L, & Nasty. The issue was not the loss of 'industrial' soud (I've never owned a Skinny Puppy lp actually), nor a dislike of funk (I'm a big Stax/Tower of Power fan) or even Bill Nelson (the guitarist on Code who I like otherwise). Itis just the uninventiveness of it. Sherwood steals the show with the eq'ing and production, as exemplified by the 12" stuff.

quoted 4 lines I suppose the last 6-7 years of Techno immersion would probably have me

> I suppose the last 6-7 years of Techno immersion would probably have me > revisit such a decision (heck, I've never even *heard* "Groovy ... "), but > you might have seen things differently if you were a Cab Volt fanatic from > day one ...

Yep, exactly my opinion too. I guess it is just a perspective thing, as i could see liking Code if I'd never heard them before...

quoted 4 lines Erm ... anyway, since Jon started this "ROOTS OF IDM" thing ... I'll toss

> Erm ... anyway, since Jon started this "ROOTS OF IDM" thing ... I'll toss > out a couple more: > > John Foxx "Metamatic" (Virgin, 1980)

-------------------- Amen! solenoid@europa.com <------+

1997-04-05 11:57CheOn Fri, 4 Apr 1997, Microdot in the Aquabahn wrote: > I follow this completely: I bought C

From:: Che <zeus8@synthcom.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:57:16 +0000 ()
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

On Fri, 4 Apr 1997, Microdot in the Aquabahn wrote:

quoted 9 lines I follow this completely: I bought CV from '83 till I bought Code, was

> I follow this completely: I bought CV from '83 till I bought Code, was > sorely disappointed that they were trying to make funk (yes, it was well > produced, but it was so uninventive!) and abandoned them until '92 when I > heard Sweet Exorcist and flipped! I never did hear Groovy L, & Nasty. > The issue was not the loss of 'industrial' soud (I've never owned a Skinny > Puppy lp actually), nor a dislike of funk (I'm a big Stax/Tower of Power > fan) or even Bill Nelson (the guitarist on Code who I like otherwise). > Itis just the uninventiveness of it. Sherwood steals the show with the > eq'ing and production, as exemplified by the 12" stuff.

I took the same path for different reasons. I was a big CV fan until Code. I even saw them live around '84 - the same show that inspired THE most psychotic issue of Flaming Carrot Comics, but that's another story. I liked the music in Code, but the negativity of the lyrics turned me off. So I dropped CV until '92 or '93, when I heard Sandoz. I was really happy to find out that RHK had dropped the loser vocals.

quoted 7 lines I suppose the last 6-7 years of Techno immersion would probably have me

> > I suppose the last 6-7 years of Techno immersion would probably have me > > revisit such a decision (heck, I've never even *heard* "Groovy ... "), but > > you might have seen things differently if you were a Cab Volt fanatic from > > day one ... > > Yep, exactly my opinion too. I guess it is just a perspective thing, as i > could see liking Code if I'd never heard them before...

I think the big disconnect with longtime CV fans is that for so long CV was very varied and innovative in changing their sound. Now RHK is drawing from the same well, album after album after album. That's hard to reconcile with CV's past. There's also no malicious vocals from Mallinder, so many old CV fans bitch and moan about RHK's latest. I for one like the little patch of ground he's cultivating. A friend of mine pointed out that he's now a lot like Philip K Dick, who kept writing different versions of the same novel. I just wish he weren't so damned prolific. I can't afford to buy everything he does. True the rate of change is not so great, but CV does change. Lay off with the CV slagging, please. Clueless interviewer for generic Techno mag: "So, what do you do in your spare time?" Richard H. Kirk: "I have no spare time." Chill Che

1997-04-05 04:39sumac>On a related note I'm wondering if anyone can truly say that Ralf >& Florian's album from

From:: sumac <sumac@tiac.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 23:39:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject:: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

quoted 2 lines On a related note I'm wondering if anyone can truly say that Ralf

>On a related note I'm wondering if anyone can truly say that Ralf >& Florian's album from '73 got them into IDM?

While the significance of Kraftwerk perhaps wasnt fully realized by me until later on in my life, hearing the 7" edit of "Autobahn" on the radio when it was a top 40 hit in the USA in the early seventies was a truly sublime experience for my pre-teen mind. I was yet to discover "prog rock", so my experiences with synthesizer music were limited to a few classics that featured the moogs in an out-front capacity: The Commodores "Machine Gun", Billy Prestons "Outta Space", The Edgar Winter Groups "Frankenstein"... these were the records that led me into my local record store at age 12, and upon spotting a record that said "Moog Synthesizer and Ring Modulator" on the front, went home with a copy of a Karlheinz Stockhausen record (whose title I have forgotten). It was beatless tonal experimentation that my young mind could not yet grasp... I do remember calling my local FM station late at night and requesting the full album version of "Autobahn", and having it blow my mind completely! As far as IDM is concerned, the next link in the chain for me was New Order, who took the moody english boyrock thing to the dancefloor, albeit in a disco revisited way. Detroit was listening for sure, and Arthur Baker was listening back. Cabaret Voltaire dropped some 12" monsters around that same time period, one of my favorites being "Crackdown"... massive track!!! Also the first 12" from Test Dept, "Compulsion". It may be metal on metal klang, but it has a electronic pulse streaming through it that got copied by many. Look for it! There were many others, but I am just hitting a few highlights for me. This could be an interesting thread (for a change: low flame potential). There are so many types of music that inform IDM, I would have to include everyone from Schooly D. to the Master Musicians of JouJouka (now there is a TRANCE band!). Hey, Gonzi, what was YOUR first IDM-qualified record purchase? A white label Morton Subotnik 12" remixed by an infant RDJ? Just curious... Dave Egan sumac@tiac.net "echo's alot of fun if you know how to use it use it..." -Yom Tucker <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><>

1997-04-05 08:01Eric FransOn Fri, 4 Apr 1997, sumac wrote: } There are so many types of music that inform IDM, I wou

From:: Eric Frans <franse@engr.arizona.edu>
To:: idm <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 01:01:17 -0700 (MST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire
Reply to:: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

On Fri, 4 Apr 1997, sumac wrote: } There are so many types of music that inform IDM, I would have to include } everyone from Schooly D. to the Master Musicians of JouJouka (now there is a } TRANCE band!). Schooly D. I'm suprised he didn't get mention back when we were discussing hip-hop "classics" awhile back. I can still remember seeing him perform with his DJ and a *live* back-up band as an opening to a Fishbone gig years back. Ahh, the memories. Too bad Fishbone went downhill after "UGLY" and "Party at Ground Zero" IMO. | E r i c | [mail] franse@engr.arizona.edu | | F r a n s | [web] http://intermix.engr.arizona.edu/~franse | "Make the events occur that you want to occur" - The Black Dog

1997-04-05 06:32Gonzi (Fresh)> Hey, Gonzi, what was YOUR first IDM-qualified record purchase? A white label > Morton Su

From:: Gonzi (Fresh) <fresh@linkonline.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 22:32:10 -0800
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

quoted 2 lines Hey, Gonzi, what was YOUR first IDM-qualified record purchase? A white label

> Hey, Gonzi, what was YOUR first IDM-qualified record purchase? A white label > Morton Subotnik 12" remixed by an infant RDJ? Just curious...

Actually alot of the stuff you're talking about went on when I was in grade school. And although I'd like to boast of having been into Derrick May and Kraftwerk in the 3rd grade to be honest I was a bit more concerned with getting home to catch Robotech on time and saving enough for the GI Joe F-14. I was a big fan of new order and hip-hop (public enemy, early nwa) in jr. high. The first time I really became aware of techno or IDM was when I was in High School. If you went to high school when I did in Southern California there was no way to avoid the first rave explosion of the early 90's here in LA. Although some of the early acid house & breakbeat stuff I heard out of that was interesting nothing really grabbed me till I began to hear...ohhh, stuff like Pacific State, Little Fluffy Clouds and Chime, which was some seriously underground shit if you're in High School and can't drive a car yet, believe me. _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

1997-04-05 08:25juicyjazzguy>Actually alot of the stuff you're talking about went on when I was in >grade school. And

From:: juicyjazzguy <ghhorne@DELTA.IS.TCU.EDU>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 02:25:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

quoted 5 lines Actually alot of the stuff you're talking about went on when I was in

>Actually alot of the stuff you're talking about went on when I was in >grade school. And although I'd like to boast of having been into Derrick >May and Kraftwerk in the 3rd grade to be honest I was a bit more >concerned with getting home to catch Robotech on time and saving enough >for the GI Joe F-14.

I'm the same way; I feel sort of unlucky I wasn't older during the birth of the Detroit sound. My first album purchase was a CD copy of Kraftwerk's _Electric Cafe_ back in 1988. That kind of put me on the right track. I spent way too much time during the early 90's buying every tacky rave compilation there was; didn't 'discover' Orb until 1993 [U.F. Orb], and Orbital in 1994 [Diversions]. I owe a lot of my 'tolerance' to the genre to these two recordings. Read about the AI series in an old issue of Hypno in 1994, and the rest was history. Still have too many nasty rave comps, though. Go Speed Go. grant.h.horne http://delta.is.tcu.edu/~ghhorne/

1997-04-05 12:49The Rare GuyOn Saturday, 05-Apr-97, juicyjazzguy wrote [about Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Volt

From:: The Rare Guy <buh@clark.net>
To:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 12:49:52 EST4EDT
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

On Saturday, 05-Apr-97, juicyjazzguy wrote [about Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire]:

quoted 3 lines I'm the same way; I feel sort of unlucky I wasn't older during the birth of

>I'm the same way; I feel sort of unlucky I wasn't older during the birth of >the >Detroit sound. My first album purchase was a CD copy of Kraftwerk's _Electric

quoted 7 lines Cafe_ back in 1988. That kind of put me on the right track. I spent way too

>Cafe_ back in 1988. That kind of put me on the right track. I spent way too >much >time during the early 90's buying every tacky rave compilation there was; >didn't >'discover' Orb until 1993 [U.F. Orb], and Orbital in 1994 [Diversions]. I owe >a >lot of my 'tolerance' to the genre to these two recordings. Read about the AI

quoted 1 line series in an old issue of Hypno in 1994, and the rest was history.

>series in an old issue of Hypno in 1994, and the rest was history.

My first album purchase was Kraftwerk's Electric Cafe also, but on vinyl. I didn't know there were CD's in 1988? ah well anyway. I didn't know what the hell it was, but I remember I liked it a lot. I remember it being _a lot_ different that some of the stuff I listen to today, especially that track about the Telephone. Anyway, later on in 9th grade, there were those tacky techno compilations and such. heh.. I didn't get full blown into IDM until last summer tho, really. I bought AFX's Classics, after finally finding where I could get it from (hah the only place I shopped was Sam Goody at the time :d). I had heard about AFX because of one person's 'obsession' with it on IRC, I just wanted to hear what it sounds like, after that I got into FSOL, µ-Ziq, all through ppl's recommendations and eventually started checking stuff out on my own, found a _REAL_ record store, etc. :D ps: I sold all those tacky techno compilations within a month's period ;) -- __ __\ \ Aurafix aka Hillie / PHD ^ DAMONES (aka Rare Guy) / /_\ \ http://www.clark.net/pub/buh/index.html \_____/ >> buh@clark.net >> < > .. >> .<>> >> > , m7= inducing mindwaves.. electronic techno muuusik controlled manually by a p h e x t wi n .. .. . . .

1997-04-05 18:58chris lietzThe Rare Guy wrote: > > On Saturday, 05-Apr-97, juicyjazzguy wrote [about Re: (idm) Re: RO

From:: chris lietz <clietz@enteract.com>
To:: <buh@clark.net>
Cc:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 12:58:55 -0600
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

The Rare Guy wrote:

quoted 15 lines On Saturday, 05-Apr-97, juicyjazzguy wrote [about Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM:

> > On Saturday, 05-Apr-97, juicyjazzguy wrote [about Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: > Cabaret Voltaire]: > >I'm the same way; I feel sort of unlucky I wasn't older during the birth of > >the > >Detroit sound. My first album purchase was a CD copy of Kraftwerk's _Electric > > >Cafe_ back in 1988. That kind of put me on the right track. I spent way too > >much > >time during the early 90's buying every tacky rave compilation there was; > >didn't > >'discover' Orb until 1993 [U.F. Orb], and Orbital in 1994 [Diversions]. I owe > >a > >lot of my 'tolerance' to the genre to these two recordings. Read about the AI >

wow! a thread that everyone can agree upon... i guess i took an approach similar to others on the list through the sounds of 242 (front by front) and nitzer ebb (that total age) borrowed from a friend without having any idea what it sounded like. it was intriguing, but it didnt click right away. it didnt have the groove that the house mixes on the radio had. (growing up just outside of chicago had its advantages as far as that was concerned) it wasnt until i picked up lfo-frequencies/orb-adventures/orbital-1/altern-8/activ-8 in about a 3 month period that i really converted. im not sure why i picked those or where i heard about them (nme i would guess) but they proved to be landmark recordings for electronica. maybe not the altern-8, but at the time it was good. not long after we had ai and those speak for themselves... cl

1997-04-05 19:41The Rare GuyOn Saturday, 05-Apr-97, chris lietz wrote [about Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Volta

From:: The Rare Guy <buh@clark.net>
To:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 19:41:18 EST4EDT
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire

On Saturday, 05-Apr-97, chris lietz wrote [about Re: (idm) Re: ROOTS OF IDM: Cabaret Voltaire]:

quoted 1 line wow! a thread that everyone can agree upon...

>wow! a thread that everyone can agree upon...

That statement makes me think of something PJ told me at Modern Music today. We were talking about the relavancy(sp?) of the IDM label to today's music. About how IDM is really meaningless now (a number of ppl have said this here too).. Perhaps that's how we can all agree on our first IDM experiences :) -- __ __\ \ Aurafix aka Hillie / PHD ^ DAMONES (aka Rare Guy) / /_\ \ http://www.clark.net/pub/buh/index.html \_____/ >> buh@clark.net >> < > .. >> .<>> >> > , m7= inducing mindwaves.. electronic techno muuusik controlled manually by a p h e x t wi n .. .. . . .