IDM Mailing Archive

It doesn't matter wether U2 is idm or not. If most believe believe it's not idm, then it shouldn't been discussed here. There are plenty of other lists where they want to talk about u2. Maybe we should vote for this. ;-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ M a t h i a s V e r r a e s ET.Phone.Home@ThePentagon.com 'Le corbeau, honteux et confus, jura, mais un peu tard, qu'on ne l'y prendrait plus.' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ susie creamcheese (the voice of cheese) <steichen@ols.net> wrote:

quoted 14 lines This list has degraded to a new low.

> > This list has degraded to a new low. > > > > I think Alan and others decribed idm and the purpose of this list > > very well on "What is the IDM Mailing List?". I suggest a few > > people go take a look at it and get a clue. > PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE MESSAGE BEFORE RESPONDING OR I WILL NOT EVEN TAKE > YOU SERIOUSLY. > ok. > ill explain again. > I think u2 deserves to be on idm > I've read the damn idminfo thing. > it doesn't say much that differs from my view > > if I said aphex twin or autechre were crap, and that they weren't idm

then

quoted 8 lines you would be rather mad I assume.

> you would be rather mad I assume. > but, that's my opinion. > it does have a right to be heard. > I don't have the right to say you are an idiot though > > if a person likes a band then they obviously will think that they deserve > to be told about. > if the band somehow fits into the perimeters of "idm" then they will

think

quoted 7 lines that they deserve to be told about on idm.

> that they deserve to be told about on idm. > I like u2 > so I think they, being a techno dance band in their current incarnation, > deserve to be told about on idm. > > several people don't think that u2 is idm > I would attribute this to either a lack of knowledge, preconceived

notions,

quoted 2 lines bad taste, or maybe they just plain don't like them.

> bad taste, or maybe they just plain don't like them. > if they don't like them, then say so, but don't say someone who does is

an

quoted 15 lines idiot or obviously doesn't get the point of idm

> idiot or obviously doesn't get the point of idm > > idm isn't philosophical > idm is about idm > my tastes may expand upon what is generally accepted as idm, but that > doesn't bother me, and it shouldn't bother other people, unless they are > neurotic, superior imbeciles. > I am not saying you are a neurotic superior imbecile > I am saying that you, among other people don't seem to understand, and > obviously haven't even tried. > not knowing you, I am not quite ready to tell several hundred people that > you are an idiot. > it was quite rude to post this over the internet, with the title "you are > an idiot..." > even if it wasn't you, whoever did it should be ashamed, for they are

seem

quoted 4 lines very immature.

> very immature. > > NO ONE TAKE ANY OF THIS PERSONALLY > DON'T WRITE BACK UNLESS YOU INTEND TO TELL ME SOMETHING USEFUL, NOT THAT

I

quoted 7 lines AM AN IDIOT. THANK YOU, I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THAT. MY TASTES DIFFER. MY

> AM AN IDIOT. THANK YOU, I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THAT. MY TASTES DIFFER. MY > VIEWS OF WHAT IS IDM MAY DIFFER. IDM IS A LOOSE TERM. IT SAYS SO IN THE > INFO THINGY, IT ALSO SAYS THAT I HAVE A RIGHT TO POST SUCH MATERIAL, IF I > CAN BACK UP MY CLAIMS. I CAN. > WRITE BACK IN PRIVATE. > I LIKE APHEX AND AUTECHRE. > BUT, I THINK AMBIENT AND TECHNO MUSIC HAVE NOT LIVED UP TO THE PROMISE

THAT

quoted 4 lines THEIR INFLUENCES SET. (ENO AND CAN AND KRAFTWERK AND EVEN PINK FLOYD.)

> THEIR INFLUENCES SET. (ENO AND CAN AND KRAFTWERK AND EVEN PINK FLOYD.) > THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. > > steichen@ols.com

This is going to be my last post to the list on this subject, so please bear with me one last time. Flames/kudos welcome, in private.

quoted 4 lines Warren said:

> Warren said: > "ALL OPINIONS ARE TO BE RESPECTED." > > I wonder what mushmouth guru said this, if any.

Alan Parry, _co-founder_ of this list, wrote it in the message everyone gets when they join the list. Have you read it? Allow me to refresh (for the second time in twenty-four hours): So as to prevent the list from becoming a hopeless barrage of flame mail over what is and is not "intelligent", the official stance will be that all opinions are to be respected - you are welcome to disagree and post your disagreements, but outright flames and name-calling are to be avoided. However, if you declare that "Rozalla is intelligent dance music", you should be willing and able to back it up - not just "because it obviously is." Just remember that your mail goes into approximately 750 mail boxes worldwide therefore unrelated or unneccessary posts should be kept to an absolute minimum. I guess I can see how that could be vague...what with two uses of the passive voice and all.

quoted 3 lines To make respect mandatory is to devalue respect. Even one's

> To make respect mandatory is to devalue respect. Even one's > own opinion should be doubted. If you respect the opinions > of idiots, only idiots will respect your opinions.

More name-calling...how quaint. More selective reading...how quaint. If you can't respect someone who makes public a well-thought-out, unpopular opinion, then you leave me wondering who you _do_ respect. People who think like you? How wonderful for you!

quoted 11 lines "[Intelligent Dance Music] means the opposite of stupid hardcore. And of

> > > "[Intelligent Dance Music] means the opposite of stupid hardcore. And of > > > ***commercial dance music.***" (So much for Bono Vox.) > > > > Well, how you you define "commercial"? Music that is sold? Music that is > > sold by major lables? Music that is sold in corporate-owned stores? > > Music that is used in commercials? RDJ loses on all counts. :) > > Commercial music is music that is either created to sell well, or that is > made with simple chords (like C, F and G), easy rythms and everything that > pleases the crowd. Good-selling music is not necessarily commercial but > mostly it is.

Second-guessing an artist's motives is a dangerous game to play, don't you think? And if we were to exclude artists who want to make their fans happy, we wouldn't have many to talk about, would we? In the two or three weeks since the RDJ album was released in the US, I've seen at least eight or nine promos in used shops locally. Does this mean that Elektra is handing out promos/giveaways left and right, trying to get airplay so that sales will increase? Sounds commercial to me.

quoted 2 lines It doesn't matter wether U2 is idm or not. If most believe believe it's not

> It doesn't matter wether U2 is idm or not. If most believe believe it's not > idm, then it shouldn't been discussed here.

Wrong. Just because a majority of the minority of people (who are vocal) don't want to see it does not mean that it is without merit. I've yet to hear a convincing argument in light of the "official" definition of idm as to why certain artists should not be discussed on this list...and I (like many others, apparently) don't think that the artist that provoked this debate is idm.

quoted 1 line Maybe we should vote for this. ;-)

> Maybe we should vote for this. ;-)

Vote with your delete button. If someone wants to have an intelligent debate (no name-calling, no "Is not!" "Is too!" etc. etc.) about whether or not any artist is idm, it is ludicrous to insist that they stop talking about it because some people don't want to hear about it. If there are only a few people discussing it, perhaps the thread will die a *gasp* natural death.

quoted 5 lines susie creamcheese (the voice of cheese) <steichen@ols.net> wrote:

> susie creamcheese (the voice of cheese) <steichen@ols.net> wrote: > > MY > > VIEWS OF WHAT IS IDM MAY DIFFER. IDM IS A LOOSE TERM. IT SAYS SO IN THE > > INFO THINGY, IT ALSO SAYS THAT I HAVE A RIGHT TO POST SUCH MATERIAL, IF I > > CAN BACK UP MY CLAIMS. I CAN.

I find it fascinating (yet utterly typical) that no one has yet to address the gist of this argument. It's not about U2; it's about how we define "idm." "idm" has been left intentionally vague so that we as listmembers keep our minds _open_ to _new_ ideas, that we are then free to reject or embrace. Sure, that's an intellectual excercise, but we can handle it, can't we? After all, we all like "intelligent" dance music. -- Warren Lapham (ceremony-owner@monkey.org) laps@umich.edu (laps@monkey.org)