This is going to be my last post to the list on this subject, so please
bear with me one last time.
Flames/kudos welcome, in private.
quoted 4 lines Warren said:> Warren said:
> "ALL OPINIONS ARE TO BE RESPECTED."
>
> I wonder what mushmouth guru said this, if any.
Alan Parry, _co-founder_ of this list, wrote it in the message everyone
gets when they join the list. Have you read it? Allow me to refresh
(for the second time in twenty-four hours):
So as to prevent the list from becoming a hopeless barrage of flame
mail over what is and is not "intelligent", the official stance will
be that all opinions are to be respected - you are welcome to disagree
and post your disagreements, but outright flames and name-calling are
to be avoided. However, if you declare that "Rozalla is intelligent
dance music", you should be willing and able to back it up - not just
"because it obviously is." Just remember that your mail goes into
approximately 750 mail boxes worldwide therefore unrelated or
unneccessary posts should be kept to an absolute minimum.
I guess I can see how that could be vague...what with two uses of the
passive voice and all.
quoted 3 lines To make respect mandatory is to devalue respect. Even one's> To make respect mandatory is to devalue respect. Even one's
> own opinion should be doubted. If you respect the opinions
> of idiots, only idiots will respect your opinions.
More name-calling...how quaint.
More selective reading...how quaint.
If you can't respect someone who makes public a well-thought-out,
unpopular opinion, then you leave me wondering who you _do_ respect.
People who think like you? How wonderful for you!
quoted 11 lines "[Intelligent Dance Music] means the opposite of stupid hardcore. And of> > > "[Intelligent Dance Music] means the opposite of stupid hardcore. And of
> > > ***commercial dance music.***" (So much for Bono Vox.)
> >
> > Well, how you you define "commercial"? Music that is sold? Music that is
> > sold by major lables? Music that is sold in corporate-owned stores?
> > Music that is used in commercials? RDJ loses on all counts. :)
>
> Commercial music is music that is either created to sell well, or that is
> made with simple chords (like C, F and G), easy rythms and everything that
> pleases the crowd. Good-selling music is not necessarily commercial but
> mostly it is.
Second-guessing an artist's motives is a dangerous game to play, don't you
think? And if we were to exclude artists who want to make their fans
happy, we wouldn't have many to talk about, would we?
In the two or three weeks since the RDJ album was released in the US, I've
seen at least eight or nine promos in used shops locally. Does this mean
that Elektra is handing out promos/giveaways left and right, trying to get
airplay so that sales will increase? Sounds commercial to me.
quoted 2 lines It doesn't matter wether U2 is idm or not. If most believe believe it's not> It doesn't matter wether U2 is idm or not. If most believe believe it's not
> idm, then it shouldn't been discussed here.
Wrong. Just because a majority of the minority of people (who are vocal)
don't want to see it does not mean that it is without merit. I've yet to
hear a convincing argument in light of the "official" definition of idm
as to why certain artists should not be discussed on this list...and I
(like many others, apparently) don't think that the artist that provoked
this debate is idm.
quoted 1 line Maybe we should vote for this. ;-)> Maybe we should vote for this. ;-)
Vote with your delete button. If someone wants to have an intelligent
debate (no name-calling, no "Is not!" "Is too!" etc. etc.) about whether
or not any artist is idm, it is ludicrous to insist that they stop talking
about it because some people don't want to hear about it. If there are
only a few people discussing it, perhaps the thread will die a *gasp*
natural death.
quoted 5 lines susie creamcheese (the voice of cheese) <steichen@ols.net> wrote:> susie creamcheese (the voice of cheese) <steichen@ols.net> wrote:
> > MY
> > VIEWS OF WHAT IS IDM MAY DIFFER. IDM IS A LOOSE TERM. IT SAYS SO IN THE
> > INFO THINGY, IT ALSO SAYS THAT I HAVE A RIGHT TO POST SUCH MATERIAL, IF I
> > CAN BACK UP MY CLAIMS. I CAN.
I find it fascinating (yet utterly typical) that no one has yet to address
the gist of this argument. It's not about U2; it's about how we define
"idm." "idm" has been left intentionally vague so that we as listmembers
keep our minds _open_ to _new_ ideas, that we are then free to reject or
embrace. Sure, that's an intellectual excercise, but we can handle it,
can't we? After all, we all like "intelligent" dance music.
--
Warren Lapham (ceremony-owner@monkey.org)
laps@umich.edu (laps@monkey.org)