IDM Mailing Archive

1997-01-21 17:29Brian J Tang (The Freshmaker)ftodd claimed: > sorry, never heard of Derrick May and Juan Atkins, when did they start >

From:: Brian J Tang (The Freshmaker) <tang@ilx.com>
To:: <ftodd@netcomuk.co.uk>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:29:55 -0500
Subject:: Re: City for (idm)?

ftodd claimed:

quoted 6 lines sorry, never heard of Derrick May and Juan Atkins, when did they start

> sorry, never heard of Derrick May and Juan Atkins, when did they start > making whatever music they made. Intelligent Techno, Techno and Trance > comes from Germany originally, House and Hardcore comes from the UK, > I'll grant the Americans with Garage ie. House with a disco flavour, > but that's it. >

I'm assuming you mean Kraftwerk started techno. Kraftwerk isn't "techno". They fit into the broad definition electronica. I'm not an expert by any means, but I'll try. Juan Atkins and Derrick May are the boys who started piddling around in their bedrooms in the early in 80's in Detroit. This was the first techno. House music mutated out of the early techno in Chicago. Techno became much more popular in Europe then it did in the US in the late 80's and early 90's and artists their were much more influencial during this period. People, please correct any historical inaccuracies. And in no way should this be taken as a "US v. Europe" argument. ftodd, I thought you said you were leaving the list anyway. Our knowledge of electronica obviously doesn't reach the level of yours. Brian (*) Fresh and Full of Life Brian Tang NYC http://silly.com/~tang

1997-01-21 18:23Zenon M. FeszczakAt 12:29 -0500 21.01.97, you wrote: > >Juan Atkins and Derrick May are the boys who starte

From:: Zenon M. Feszczak <feszczak@sas.upenn.edu>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:23:17 -0500
Subject:: Re: City for (idm)?
Reply to:: Re: City for (idm)?

At 12:29 -0500 21.01.97, you wrote:

quoted 12 lines Juan Atkins and Derrick May are the boys who started piddling around

> >Juan Atkins and Derrick May are the boys who started piddling around >in their bedrooms in the early in 80's in Detroit. This was the >first techno. House music mutated out of the early techno in Chicago. > >Techno became much more popular in Europe then it did in the US in >the late 80's and early 90's and artists their were much more >influencial during this period. > >People, please correct any historical inaccuracies. And in no way >should this be taken as a "US v. Europe" argument. >

Right on. The Europe-U.S. process is too complex to attempt some simple us-vs-them competition anyway. House was largely born in U.S. gay underground clubs, a sort of pre-rave scene. But house hit the mainstream in Europe before it bounced back and hit the mainstream in the U.S. (largely when non-house pop artists started lifting house rhythms). Similarly with techno, which has its roots in the U.S., but certainly the techno scene now is immense in Europe relative to the U.S. Josh Wink was complaining about this recently, saying (with perhaps slight poetic hyperbole) that the U.S. is the only country in the Western world where dance music is _not_ the most popular form of music. Zenon M. Feszczak Philosophist P.S. Check out the double comp assembled by 4Hero of Detroit techno, called "The Deepest Shade of Techno".

1997-01-21 20:26HillieOn Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Brian J Tang (The Freshmaker) wrote: > I'm assuming you mean Kraftwer

From:: Hillie <buh@clark.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:26:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject:: Re: City for (idm)?
Reply to:: Re: City for (idm)?

On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Brian J Tang (The Freshmaker) wrote:

quoted 2 lines I'm assuming you mean Kraftwerk started techno. Kraftwerk isn't

> I'm assuming you mean Kraftwerk started techno. Kraftwerk isn't > "techno". They fit into the broad definition electronica.

ik. Techno is an icky word :) I only use it when absolutely necassary ;) -- Hillie aka Aurafix / DAMONES hillien kotisivu - http://www.clark.net/pub/buh/index.html easy internet services - http://huizen.dds.nl/~eis Do re mi fa so la ti.. Oh let's see if I can make it easier...

1997-01-22 11:42Ben CofferIn message <199701211731.AA00549@ougou.devo.ilx.com>, "Brian J Tang (The Freshmaker)" <tan

From:: Ben Coffer <ben@hybridgame.demon.co.uk>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:42:00 +0000
Subject:: Re: City for (idm)?
Reply to:: Re: City for (idm)?

In message <199701211731.AA00549@ougou.devo.ilx.com>, "Brian J Tang (The Freshmaker)" <tang@ilx.com> writes

quoted 3 lines I'm assuming you mean Kraftwerk started techno. Kraftwerk isn't

>I'm assuming you mean Kraftwerk started techno. Kraftwerk isn't >"techno". They fit into the broad definition electronica. >

There was no such term as techno when kraftwerk were making records in the 70s, so yeah, electronica is correct.

quoted 5 lines I'm not an expert by any means, but I'll try.

>I'm not an expert by any means, but I'll try. > >Juan Atkins and Derrick May are the boys who started piddling around >in their bedrooms in the early in 80's in Detroit. This was the >first techno. House music mutated out of the early techno in Chicago.

Oops....no...House music clearly mutated out of 70s disco....it was 70s disco with drum machines. It came from New York. Garage from Chicago, and techno from Detroit.

quoted 2 lines People, please correct any historical inaccuracies. And in no way

>People, please correct any historical inaccuracies. And in no way >should this be taken as a "US v. Europe" argument.

Well there you go....hmmm not much in it on the US V Europe...all we've got is jungle. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions

1997-01-21 19:30basscadetIt seems its always the same argument over and over. There are no orginators they were all

From:: basscadet <basscadet@geocities.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:30:17 -0500
Subject:: Re: City for (idm)?

It seems its always the same argument over and over. There are no orginators they were all responsible for what is happenning now. Its obvious from the responses that all of the artist mentioned were each influenced at one time or another by the sounds that preceded them (kraftwerk on May & atkins, etc.) You could keep tracing back each of thier own inspirations and influences till your blue in the face, they have all had a direct effect on each other in what I would simple call a chain of progression. To go back and say that they were the first blah,blah,blah is a waste of time. Just my 2 cents Manny

1997-01-22 00:09Microdot in the AquabahnOn Tue, 21 Jan 1997, basscadet wrote: > It seems its always the same argument over and ove

From:: Microdot in the Aquabahn <solenoid@thetics.europa.com>
To:: basscadet <basscadet@geocities.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:09:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject:: Machinemusic Re: City for (idm)?
Reply to:: Re: City for (idm)?

On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, basscadet wrote:

quoted 1 line It seems its always the same argument over and over. There are no

> It seems its always the same argument over and over. There are no

quoted 1 line blah,blah,blah is a waste of time.

> blah,blah,blah is a waste of time.

Here is a different way of looking at it: who invented the "machine-aesthetic"? I mean the whole sensibility that blatantly machinel-made music was cool.. this is a cornerstone of IDM as I see it, afterall, intelligent dance music could be made without electronics and machines if the musicians were skilled enough, however, the use of blatantly "elektronik" sounds is a big part of the whole aesthetic, isn't it? So I'd say that the lineage would be... Satie->Cage/Stockhausen->Kraftwerk->Detroit->(from here everything ping-pongs between European countries and the US, though Detroit is still rather isolated in this aesthetic) I just saw a 95 film on a newer Stockhausen peice and remembered how everything he came out with was on the heels of Cage pretty much, so I lump them together. Since CAge was American and Stocky was German(?), that whole duality goes back to before the detroit/europe arguement actually. rock has been that was too from early on. Seems like Americans blindly invent stuff but only Europeans have the taste or education to figure out the wheat from the chaff...imho solenoid@europa.com <------+

Machinemusic Re: City for (idm)?