IDM Mailing Archive

1996-07-28 03:29Running FreeHas anyone seen ebtg on their current tour? I've heard Ben Watt is spinning tunes prior to

From:: Running Free <intone@warwick.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:29:36 -0400
Subject:: (idm) DJ Ben Watt

Has anyone seen ebtg on their current tour? I've heard Ben Watt is spinning tunes prior to the band's show. What type of music is he spinning? Paul Rafanello on now: Electronic "Raise The Pressure"

1996-07-28 18:53Mark BowenEverything but the Girl stopped by the local Drum and Bass/Dub night at the Empty Bottle h

From:: Mark Bowen <mb@gettins.bche.uic.edu>
To:: Running Free <intone@warwick.net>, <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 13:53:26 -0500
Subject:: Re: (idm) DJ Ben Watt

Everything but the Girl stopped by the local Drum and Bass/Dub night at the Empty Bottle here in Chicago. After hanging at the bar for awhile Ben took the stage and spun a mix of upbeat to jazzy stuff. His tune selection was alright but the mixing skills were passable. No huge screw-up but the mixes tended to be fast cuts. What do you expect from a bandwagon-jumper? -- Mark Bowen mb@gettins.bche.uic.edu

1996-07-29 03:02Greg Earle> Everything but the Girl stopped by the local Drum and Bass/Dub night at the > Empty Bott

From:: Greg Earle <earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 20:02:33 -0700
Subject:: (idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt
Reply to:: Re: (idm) DJ Ben Watt

quoted 7 lines Everything but the Girl stopped by the local Drum and Bass/Dub night at the

> Everything but the Girl stopped by the local Drum and Bass/Dub night at the > Empty Bottle here in Chicago. After hanging at the bar for awhile Ben took > the stage and spun a mix of upbeat to jazzy stuff. His tune selection was > alright but the mixing skills were passable. No huge screw-up but the mixes > tended to be fast cuts. > > What do you expect from a bandwagon-jumper?

That's a gross thing to say. Some 19 year old in England can say "Drum n' Bass - now *that's* what I want to do", get some gear together, get a record out, and everything's copacetic. But heaven forbid if two 30-somethings say "Drum n' Bass - now *that's* what we want to do now, because we love it" and put a Dn'B record out, well then, they're "bandwagon-jumpers" because they actually had previous records out that weren't in that style. I guess Jon Drukman is a "bandwagon-jumper" because he used to make Industrial music and wasn't doing Bass Kittens in 1989? I guess 3 Phase's "Der Klang Der Familie" isn't a seminal Techno record because, after all, they were just former Industrialites (Gerechtigkeits Liga) who became "bandwagon-jumpers" in 1991/92? I suppose since my wife had Industrial records out she'll be viewed as a "bandwagon-jumper" when her Techno material gets out? Oh, then of course there's that Mike Paradinas character; since his next album is supposedly Jungle then there's another "bandwagon-jumper" right there ... Need I say more? - Greg

1996-07-28 23:10Fresh/Gonzi Merchan>But heaven forbid if two 30-somethings say "Drum n' Bass - now >*that's* what we want to

From:: Fresh/Gonzi Merchan <GMerchan@gnn.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 23:10:37
Subject:: Re: (idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt

quoted 4 lines But heaven forbid if two 30-somethings say "Drum n' Bass - now

>But heaven forbid if two 30-somethings say "Drum n' Bass - now >*that's* what we want to do now, because we love it" and put a >Dn'B record out, well then, they're "bandwagon-jumpers" because >they actually had previous records out that weren't in that style.

Get off it, you know they're just out to make money by cashing in on the jungle/techno thing which had nothing to do with any of their previous albums. That crappy-ass house remix of Missing got the dough rolling in and it went to their heads since no one could give a fuck about them the year before Tracey did the thing the Massives. It's like when everyone started trying to rap on records in the early eighties, remember? Lionel Ritchie was rappin'! Debbie Harry was rappin'! Pathetic.... /""'' /"'RESH Live and Direct from the G-Spot Orange County, California, USA

1996-07-29 06:40jabberwalqee> early eighties, remember? Lionel Ritchie was rappin'! Debbie Harry > was rappin'! Pathet

From:: jabberwalqee <jts6123@email.unc.edu>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 02:40:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt

quoted 2 lines early eighties, remember? Lionel Ritchie was rappin'! Debbie Harry

> early eighties, remember? Lionel Ritchie was rappin'! Debbie Harry > was rappin'! Pathetic....

-------------------^ EXCUSE ME!!!! while i bite back my rage. dont mess with debbie harry. j give the respect where the respect is due... the year was 76. she helped build the wagon

1996-07-29 09:24Greg Earle>> But heaven forbid if two 30-somethings say "Drum n' Bass - now >> *that's* what we want

From:: Greg Earle <earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 02:24:16 -0700
Subject:: (idm) Re: Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt

quoted 8 lines But heaven forbid if two 30-somethings say "Drum n' Bass - now

>> But heaven forbid if two 30-somethings say "Drum n' Bass - now >> *that's* what we want to do now, because we love it" and put a >> Drum n' Bass record out, well then, they're "bandwagon-jumpers" because >> they actually had previous records out that weren't in that style. > > Get off it, you know they're just out to make money by cashing in > on the jungle/techno thing which had nothing to do with any of > their previous albums.

Paging Mr. Merchan, please pick up the blue courtesy cluephone in the lobby ... (Try reading the EBTG interviews in the April Mixmag or the June Muzik first before slagging them off like that ... )

quoted 3 lines It's like when everyone started trying to rap on records in the

> It's like when everyone started trying to rap on records in the > early eighties, remember? Lionel Ritchie was rappin'! Debbie Harry > was rappin'! Pathetic....

Well, let's see. Gonzi Merchan said "Debbie Harry rappin'" was "Pathetic". Grandmaster Flash said that Blondie doing "Rapture" was a seminal point in the history of Rap, as it helped expose early Rap to a white culture that otherwise would not have heard it or picked up on it. Which expert do YOU believe? - Greg

1996-07-29 06:56David JonesOn Sun, 28 Jul 1996 20:02:33 -0700 Greg Earle wrote, > music and wasn't doing Bass Kittens

From:: David Jones <djones@jfku.jfku.edu>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 23:56:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: (idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt

On Sun, 28 Jul 1996 20:02:33 -0700 Greg Earle wrote,

quoted 4 lines music and wasn't doing Bass Kittens in 1989? I guess 3 Phase's "Der Klang

> music and wasn't doing Bass Kittens in 1989? I guess 3 Phase's "Der Klang > Der Familie" isn't a seminal Techno record because, after all, they were just > former Industrialites (Gerechtigkeits Liga) who became "bandwagon-jumpers" > in 1991/92?

N O F U C K I N G W A Y ! (shouting and surprise intentional!) I just can't believe this! Wild, wild stuff, I did not know this! I used to hear G.L. tracks all the time on the Pain Bank in Tucson. I never ever would have made the connection... thanks for the info. And your point is totally valid. What defines a bandwagon jumper is not whether or not an artist experiments with knowledge gained through listening to new music, but how and _why_ they incorporate new ways of looking at music into their _own_ style. If all you do is _copy_ then you're a jumper, but if you add to the genre by adding your own unique voice, then you're just doing what musicians have _always_ done. The first producers of d 'n' b could be said to be breakbeat jumpers, because they lift their beats from others, but the point is what they've added to the beats... I always think of science and math when I contemplate this phenomena: once a way of doing things (an algorithm) is discovered, other scientists use this information to further their research in ways not dreamt up by the original discoverer. Once a way of doing things becomes public knowledge (it would have been pretty hard to d 'n' b before computer sequencers and samplers) it is up to artists to see how far they can push the art in new directions. This is generally considered to be a good thing, but I could be wrong... -- David "a former industrialist" Jones onnow: Psychophysicist playing on "Discrete music" on KPFA - new project between Adi Newton and A.M. McKenzie on Side Effects... (how's that for industrial references?)

1996-07-29 14:35Dave WalkerThe Freshmaker! said: :Get off it, you know they're just out to make money by cashing in :

From:: Dave Walker <marmoset@mich.com>
To:: IDM List <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: 29 Jul 96 10:35:30 -0400
Subject:: Re: (idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt

The Freshmaker! said: :Get off it, you know they're just out to make money by cashing in :on the jungle/techno thing... I know, I know decaf's not quite as flavorful, but you really ought to give it try, bud. All this proves to me is that you haven't been listening to the music. What impressed me about the EBTG album is how _subtle_ the influences are. Take a track like "Before Today" -- structurally it isn't that grand a departure from what they'd been doing for years, but that bubbling bassline and rippling snares are integrated perfectly. unrelated ps: I wonder if anyone's played "Theme From Ernest Borgnine" for Ernest Borgnine yet... -- dave walker, detroit art services _ marmoset@mich.com born freeke mailto:marmoset@mich.com http://www.mich.com/~marmoset/

1996-07-29 16:37Arjun> > unrelated ps: I wonder if anyone's played "Theme From Ernest > Borgnine" for Ernest Bo

From:: Arjun <svan@mcs.net>
To:: Dave Walker <marmoset@mich.com>
Cc:: IDM List <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 11:37:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:: (idm) Re: Ernest Borgnine
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt

quoted 4 lines unrelated ps: I wonder if anyone's played "Theme From Ernest

> > unrelated ps: I wonder if anyone's played "Theme From Ernest > Borgnine" for Ernest Borgnine yet... >

who is Ernest Borgnine?

1996-07-29 17:37Sugatis & Co>It's like when everyone started trying to rap on records in the >early eighties, remember

From:: Sugatis & Co <sugatis@inreach.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 10:37:52 -0700
Subject:: Re: (idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt

quoted 2 lines It's like when everyone started trying to rap on records in the

>It's like when everyone started trying to rap on records in the >early eighties, remember?

B L O N D I E ! ! !

(idm) Bandwagon-jumping, was Re: DJ Ben Watt