IDM Mailing Archive

1996-03-22 15:06Jan HanfordI just got the new Underworld. I love it, of course, and noticed that the vocals on track

From:: Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 15:06:50 +0000
Subject:: (idm) vocoders

I just got the new Underworld. I love it, of course, and noticed that the vocals on track 1 are vocoded. Does anyone know what manufacturers are currently making vocoders? Whenever I go into a music shop and ask if they have vocoders they look at me like I'm an idiot (well, they do anyway because I'm a woman and I get a lot of looks like "why are you here?"). Thanks! Jan Jan Hanford - jan@shelby.com Shelby Group Ltd. - Internet Software Developers C o r p o r a t e W e b P a g e - http://www.shelby.com/ P e r s o n a l W e b P a g e - http://www.tile.net/jan/

1996-03-22 22:37Kent WilliamsOn Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Jan Hanford wrote: > I just got the new Underworld. I love it, of cou

From:: Kent Williams <kent@inav.net>
To:: Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 16:37:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders
Reply to:: (idm) vocoders

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Jan Hanford wrote:

quoted 8 lines I just got the new Underworld. I love it, of course, and noticed

> I just got the new Underworld. I love it, of course, and noticed > that the vocals on track 1 are vocoded. > > Does anyone know what manufacturers are currently making vocoders? > Whenever I go into a music shop and ask if they have vocoders they > look at me like I'm an idiot (well, they do anyway because I'm a > woman and I get a lot of looks like "why are you here?"). >

Vintage vocoders are preferred for sonic quality, but a good one in good shape can be $1K or more. The vocoding effect is available from some digital units (the Boss SE50, Boss SE70, Korg Wavestation AD). PAIA makes a kit you can assemble yourself (www.paia.com). Tell those music store guys to piss off; if they knew anything they could have told you what I just did. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new beauracracy -- Franz Kafka Kent Williams kent@inav.net (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3489 (fax)

1996-03-22 16:34Jan HanfordOn 22 Mar 96 at 16:37, Kent Williams wrote: > Vintage vocoders are preferred for sonic qua

From:: Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Cc:: <kent@inav.net>, <hansv@tip.nl>
Date:: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 16:34:25 +0000
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders

On 22 Mar 96 at 16:37, Kent Williams wrote:

quoted 3 lines Vintage vocoders are preferred for sonic quality, but a good one in

> Vintage vocoders are preferred for sonic quality, but a good one in > good shape can be $1K or more. The vocoding effect is available from > some digital units (the Boss SE50, Boss SE70, Korg Wavestation AD).

I'm not concerned with price, but with the articulation. I tried a Boss unit with a vocoder effect and couldn't understand a word. I've heard vocoders that were very clear. I remember playing an old Roland vocoder in 1980ish that was a keyboard with just a vocoder (it still turns up, it has the built in waveforms of voices going "ah"). It was great but, like an idiot, I didn't buy it.

quoted 2 lines Tell those music store guys to piss off; if they knew anything they

> Tell those music store guys to piss off; if they knew anything they > could have told you what I just did.

Hahahaha, yea: piss off! Well, as badly as music store salesmen treat women (and men too, I hear), I did find one oustanding store and salesman at Medley Music in Bryn Mawr, near Philadelphia. He was so knowledgeable and nice and non-sexist I just had to spend several thousand dollars! Now I live near Washington DC where it's pretty different. On 22 Mar 96 at 23:28, Hans Veneman wrote:

quoted 2 lines vocoders. The Korg Wavestation A/D also has a vocoder.

> vocoders. The Korg Wavestation A/D also has a vocoder. > All these machines have lots of other very good uses too of course!

I don't have an inch of space in my studio for another keyboard but this is tempting! Thanks for the info! Jan Jan Hanford - jan@shelby.com Shelby Group Ltd. - Internet Software Developers C o r p o r a t e W e b P a g e - http://www.shelby.com/ P e r s o n a l W e b P a g e - http://www.tile.net/jan/

1996-03-23 00:31Brian Willoughby| > Vintage vocoders are preferred for sonic quality, but a good | > one in good shape can

From:: Brian Willoughby <brianw@sounds.wa.com>
To:: Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 22 Mar 96 16:31:31 -0800
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders
Reply to:: Re: (idm) vocoders

| > Vintage vocoders are preferred for sonic quality, but a good | > one in good shape can be $1K or more. The vocoding effect is | > available from some digital units (the Boss SE50, Boss SE70, | > Korg Wavestation AD). | | I'm not concerned with price, but with the articulation. I tried | a Boss unit with a vocoder effect and couldn't understand a word. | I've heard vocoders that were very clear. I remember playing an | old Roland vocoder in 1980ish that was a keyboard with just a | vocoder (it still turns up, it has the built in waveforms of | voices going "ah"). It was great but, like an idiot, I didn't buy | it. The ENSONIQ DP/4+ devotes a microprocessor to each of four frequency bands, and has an articulation setting for each band. Up to two parameters per band can be modified in real-time by MIDI data. For a digital effects processor, many of the DP/4+ effects sound very good to my ears compared to their analog counterparts. Alas, I have not yet hooked up the vocoder, so I cannot comment on its sound quality. The manual seems to indicate that they have done a good job of addressing the articulation aspect of vocoding. Brian Willoughby

1996-03-22 16:38Jan HanfordOn 22 Mar 96 at 16:44, Michael V. Dvorkin wrote: > Paia is great! I have one and if it's w

From:: Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>
To:: Michael V. Dvorkin <dvorkinm@pcs.mot.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 16:38:04 +0000
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders

On 22 Mar 96 at 16:44, Michael V. Dvorkin wrote:

quoted 4 lines Paia is great! I have one and if it's working, it sounds pretty well.

> Paia is great! I have one and if it's working, it sounds pretty well. > Also Doepfer just releasesd a patchable vocoder as part of their A100 > system. >

I've never been good at build-it-yourself. Any volunteers? (just kidding, I'm not helpless, I _can_ change light bulbs, etc.) Regards, Jan Jan Hanford - jan@shelby.com Shelby Group Ltd. - Internet Software Developers C o r p o r a t e W e b P a g e - http://www.shelby.com/ P e r s o n a l W e b P a g e - http://www.tile.net/jan/

1996-03-22 18:21Jan HanfordOn 22 Mar 96 at 16:31, Brian Willoughby wrote: > The ENSONIQ DP/4+ devotes a microprocesso

From:: Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>
To:: <brianw@sounds.wa.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 18:21:06 +0000
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders

On 22 Mar 96 at 16:31, Brian Willoughby wrote:

quoted 8 lines The ENSONIQ DP/4+ devotes a microprocessor to each of four frequency bands,

> The ENSONIQ DP/4+ devotes a microprocessor to each of four frequency bands, > and has an articulation setting for each band. Up to two parameters per band > can be modified in real-time by MIDI data. For a digital effects processor, > many of the DP/4+ effects sound very good to my ears compared to their analog > counterparts. Alas, I have not yet hooked up the vocoder, so I cannot comment > on its sound quality. The manual seems to indicate that they have done a > good job of addressing the articulation aspect of vocoding. >

I really like Ensoniq, my EPS is a workhorse. I've heard great things about the DP/4+, could be the solution to several problems. Thanks, Brian! Regards, Jan Jan Hanford - jan@shelby.com Shelby Group Ltd. - Internet Software Developers C o r p o r a t e W e b P a g e - http://www.shelby.com/ P e r s o n a l W e b P a g e - http://www.tile.net/jan/

1996-03-22 22:28Hans Veneman>Does anyone know what manufacturers are currently making vocoders? >Whenever I go into a

From:: Hans Veneman <hansv@tip.nl>
To:: Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>, idm <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 22 Mar 96 23:28:47 +0100
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders

quoted 4 lines Does anyone know what manufacturers are currently making vocoders?

>Does anyone know what manufacturers are currently making vocoders? >Whenever I go into a music shop and ask if they have vocoders they >look at me like I'm an idiot (well, they do anyway because I'm a >woman and I get a lot of looks like "why are you here?").

The Boss SE-50 and SE-70 have vocoder effects. I used the SE-50 vocoder a couple of times and i think it's OK, but i'm not really an axpert on vocoders. The Korg Wavestation A/D also has a vocoder. All these machines have lots of other very good uses too of course! Does someone know anything about "mouth tubes", the thing Roger Troutman of Zapp uses? Hans ____ _ _ ___ ___ __ ____ Hans Veneman (_ _)( \/ )___ / _ \/ _ \ ___ /__\ ( _ \ hansv@tip.nl )( \ /(___)\_ /\_ /(___)/(__)\ )(_) ) tv99ad@xs4all.nl (__) \/ (_/ (_/ (__)(__)(____/ +31 (0)320 235266 http://www.xs4all.nl/~tv99ad----------------------------------->

1996-03-26 02:58Derek Jordan> Does someone know anything about "mouth tubes", the thing Roger Troutman > of Zapp uses?

From:: Derek Jordan <djordan@LnxLand1.denver.colorado.EDU>
To:: Hans Veneman <hansv@tip.nl>
Cc:: Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>, idm <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 19:58:28 -0700 (MST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders
Reply to:: Re: (idm) vocoders

quoted 2 lines Does someone know anything about "mouth tubes", the thing Roger Troutman

> Does someone know anything about "mouth tubes", the thing Roger Troutman > of Zapp uses?

Let me get back to everyone on that. I've been contacting old friends to see what Roger uses(and still uses, a la 2Pac's "California" track...)Rogers' the guy that got me into the whole vocoder thing in the first place. Derek

1996-03-22 22:36Michael V. DvorkinI would say that SE70 would probably the best bang for your $$$. It sounds very decent com

From:: Michael V. Dvorkin <dvorkinm@pcs.mot.com>
To:: Hans Veneman <hansv@tip.nl>, Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>, idm <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 16:36:03 -0600
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders

I would say that SE70 would probably the best bang for your $$$. It sounds very decent comparte to anything in that price range. THere are significantly more expensive alternatives though. Ems makes outstanding vocoders, but they are a bit highly priced. On Mar 22, 5:29pm, Hans Veneman wrote:

quoted 10 lines Subject: Re: (idm) vocoders

> Subject: Re: (idm) vocoders > >Does anyone know what manufacturers are currently making vocoders? > >Whenever I go into a music shop and ask if they have vocoders they > >look at me like I'm an idiot (well, they do anyway because I'm a > >woman and I get a lot of looks like "why are you here?"). > > The Boss SE-50 and SE-70 have vocoder effects. I used the SE-50 vocoder a > couple of times and i think it's OK, but i'm not really an axpert on > vocoders. The Korg Wavestation A/D also has a vocoder. > All these machines have lots of other very good uses too of course!

-- . M i k e D v o r k i n . . E: dvorkinm@pcs.mot.com . . Software Engineer . . W: facs: +1 847 435 0013 . . Motorola MIMS . . W: fone: +1 847 435 0010 . . CableComm . . H: fone: +1 847 299 5332 .

1996-03-22 22:44Michael V. Dvorkin> > PAIA makes a kit you can assemble yourself (www.paia.com). > Paia is great! I have one

From:: Michael V. Dvorkin <dvorkinm@pcs.mot.com>
To:: Kent Williams <kent@inav.net>, Jan Hanford <jan@shelby.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 16:44:49 -0600
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders

quoted 3 lines PAIA makes a kit you can assemble yourself (www.paia.com).

> > PAIA makes a kit you can assemble yourself (www.paia.com). >

Paia is great! I have one and if it's working, it sounds pretty well. Also Doepfer just releasesd a patchable vocoder as part of their A100 system. Mike -- . M i k e D v o r k i n . . E: dvorkinm@pcs.mot.com . . Software Engineer . . W: facs: +1 847 435 0013 . . Motorola MIMS . . W: fone: +1 847 435 0010 . . CableComm . . H: fone: +1 847 299 5332 .

1996-03-27 03:31Matt Haines>> Does someone know anything about "mouth tubes", the thing Roger Troutman >> of Zapp use

From:: Matt Haines <haines@quick.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 19:31:12 -0800
Subject:: Re: (idm) vocoders

quoted 10 lines Does someone know anything about "mouth tubes", the thing Roger Troutman

>> Does someone know anything about "mouth tubes", the thing Roger Troutman >> of Zapp uses? > >Let me get back to everyone on that. I've been contacting old friends to >see what Roger uses(and still uses, a la 2Pac's "California" >track...)Rogers' the guy that got me into the whole vocoder thing in the >first place. > >Derek >

Actually, a vocoder isn't the same thing as a 'talk box', which is the tube thing. A talk box is basically a speaker with a tube stuck on the end. The sound of your synth (Zapp) or guitar (Frampton) goes down the tube, which is stuck in your mouth. You move your mouth around, which imparts voice-like filtering on the instrument's sound. You then stick a microphone in front of your face, and record the result. You're substituting an external sound generator for your vocal chords, but using your mouth to shape the tone as if it were you speaking. Advantages: 'spoken' phrases are much more precise than a vocoder. Disadvantages: you've got a tube stuck in your mouth. Plus playing notes accidentally while your mouth is closed can still be picked up by the mic. And if you want to actually sing or speak the words, you better be in tune because the mic will pick it up. A vocoder is an electronic device. It analyzes the frequency spectrum of a control signal, like your voice. Like what a frequency analyzer does on a home stereo, to get all those bouncing frequency meters. It then takes that data, and filters the source sound (like a synth) to match. Like what a graphic equalizer does. As the spectrum analyzer settings move, so does the equalizer's knobs (that's a metaphorical example....it doesn't actually have knobs that move). Like the talk box, it impresses the frequency characteristics of the control signal on a source signal, but the vocoder is electronic and doesn't need a mouth or voice as a control signal. Advantages: if you don't send any control signal, nothing comes out of the thing (so you can play without speaking into the mic, and nothing comes out accidentally). You can use many different sources to modulate sounds. You don't have an unsightly tube sticking out of your mouth. Disadvantages: Sounds mushy and less precise than a talk box (in general). . . . . . . . . . Matt Haines haines@quick.net control-X:to:abort:transmission.