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Re: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book

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◇ merged from 4 subjects: bitter biter bans book · boc · robert anton wilson (was boc) · that illuminatus crap...
2003-01-31 17:20Warren's Rectum Re: [idm] boc
├─ 2003-01-31 18:02[idm] Re: that Illuminatus crap...
│ └─ 2003-01-31 19:01ben gill Re: [idm] Re: that Illuminatus crap...
├─ 2003-01-31 21:33JoAnn Re: [idm] boc
└─ 2003-01-31 22:32Charles Freeman Re: [idm] Robert Anton Wilson (was boc)
2003-01-31 18:16seeklektek Re: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book
└─ 2003-01-31 18:47Re: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book
└─ 2003-01-31 21:01skism RE: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book
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2003-01-31 17:20Warren's Rectum> >Quoting Chispas De Muerte <generentropy@yahoo.com>: > > contain 23 tracks!The satanic m
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Warren's Rectum
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Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:20:24 +0000
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Re: [idm] boc
permalink · <F17topWd7KKQpQq5pne00006e37@hotmail.com>
quoted 10 lines Quoting Chispas De Muerte <generentropy@yahoo.com>:> >Quoting Chispas De Muerte <generentropy@yahoo.com>: > > contain 23 tracks!The satanic mason in me loves this. > > The 90's were all about hidden tracks, the new > > millinium is all numerology trickery! 2003 is here > > folks, better read up on your Robert Anton Wilson! > >While that crap is good for a quick cheap laugh, it takes forever to read, >and >is quite a distraction from actual reality...
I'm nearly finished with Wilson's 'Cosmic Trigger', and though this is my first(of hopefully many) literary experience(s) in these type of ideas, I'm almost certain that one of the main themes presented by Wilson and his colleagues is that reality is relative. So much so that you can choose or control it through a reporgamming of your perceptions.
quoted 7 lines It's even more insidious because>It's even more insidious because >while you're reading it and "getting" all the references, you're under the >illusion that you're better off for avoiding the usual mainstream >distractions, >while instead all you've done is accepted an alternate dosage of the same >cultural opiate... >
I'm not sure if I understand you here...you're saying that the ideas presented by Wilson and his ilk are just something else to believe in, or no more relevent than other religous denominations or belief systems. By 'cultural opiate' I just assume you make reference to religion. If that is the point you're trying to make, I would personally have to disagree, although technically I suppose you're right. The difference I see, or at least the factors which lead me towards this 'belief' system rather than others, is that it's based on non-belief. To quote Wilson himself 'Belief is the death of intelligence', and from what I've grasped from 'Cosmic Trigger' the only thing Wilson truely 'believes' in is the development and advancement of personal and scientific understanding. The Numerology sutff is a bit hard to swallow, but I think Wilson takes it in support of Jung's collective consciouness, or 'syncronicities'. I'm a bit lost when it comes to these matter, but thats why I'm so excited to get hold of more literature on the subject. Anyway, err, sorry for spouting off like that. Nick _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2003-01-31 18:02adam@damek.orgQuoting Warren's Rectum <idmlist@hotmail.com>: > I'm not sure if I understand you here...y
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Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:02:32 -0600 (CST)
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[idm] Re: that Illuminatus crap...
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Re: [idm] boc
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Quoting Warren's Rectum <idmlist@hotmail.com>:
quoted 5 lines I'm not sure if I understand you here...you're saying that the ideas> I'm not sure if I understand you here...you're saying that the ideas > presented by Wilson and his ilk are just something else to believe in, > or no > more relevent than other religous denominations or belief systems. By > 'cultural opiate' I just assume you make reference to religion. If that
No. Media. Propaganda and distraction. The things that keep us from paying attention to what's going on in the world by convincing us that they're telling us what's going on in the world while in fact they are not. I know, I know, dem's fightin' words... Anyway, the whole "reality is relative" thing is good for a laugh until you're staring down the barrel of a gun. That's when it's time to make a decision... OK, that was rather cliche, I hate it when people say things like that, but it's true. Now, you can change your perceptions with regard to what you value - you can have certian ethics and values - but the reality to which you apply them isn't different just because you want it to be. Quick and dirty example - just because many people in the 10th Century in western Europe believed that Sol revolved around Terra doesn't mean that it actually did... OK, to completely disclose my bias, I've only read most of one Illuminatus book, and just personally felt it was complete and utter mental trash, and I just personally don't really enjoy that sort of thing. I understand that others do, but I wish such distractions would keep so many bright, capable individuals from realizing their potential and actually doing something in life. I could say the same about video games, yet I wasted 4 days last week playing Civilization 3 and Alpha Centauri and trying to make my linux box record video... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2003-01-31 19:01ben gill> Anyway, the whole "reality is relative" thing is > good for a laugh until you're > stari
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ben gill
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Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:01:28 -0800 (PST)
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Re: [idm] Re: that Illuminatus crap...
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[idm] Re: that Illuminatus crap...
permalink · <20030131190128.23750.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
quoted 4 lines Anyway, the whole "reality is relative" thing is> Anyway, the whole "reality is relative" thing is > good for a laugh until you're > staring down the barrel of a gun. That's when it's > time to make a decision...
Now that's grizzled! As the boys in Scion said at KUCI a few years back, "precisely." Ben __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2003-01-31 21:33JoAnnif you want a good read, I suggest reading Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science
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JoAnn
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Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:33:44 -0800 (PST)
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Re: [idm] boc
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Re: [idm] boc
permalink · <20030131213344.84946.qmail@web10404.mail.yahoo.com>
if you want a good read, I suggest reading Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" very profound book in terms of skeptical thinking and how to see through these flim-flams that others try to present supposedly through a "scientific" point of view. Although I dont know about Wilson or his numerology stuff, it sounds like the sort of thing, I would start out skeptical, do some research, experiment and then decide if it works, rather than go in completely openminded and be converted to some mumbo-jumbo which just gives you broad statements that could apply to anyone, ie. horoscopes --- Warren's Rectum <idmlist@hotmail.com> wrote:
quoted 70 lines Quoting Chispas De Muerte <generentropy@yahoo.com>:> > > >Quoting Chispas De Muerte <generentropy@yahoo.com>: > > > contain 23 tracks!The satanic mason in me loves > this. > > > The 90's were all about hidden tracks, the new > > > millinium is all numerology trickery! 2003 is > here > > > folks, better read up on your Robert Anton > Wilson! > > > >While that crap is good for a quick cheap laugh, it > takes forever to read, > >and > >is quite a distraction from actual reality... > > I'm nearly finished with Wilson's 'Cosmic Trigger', > and though this is my > first(of hopefully many) literary experience(s) in > these type of ideas, I'm > almost certain that one of the main themes presented > by Wilson and his > colleagues is that reality is relative. So much so > that you can choose or > control it through a reporgamming of your > perceptions. > > >It's even more insidious because > >while you're reading it and "getting" all the > references, you're under the > >illusion that you're better off for avoiding the > usual mainstream > >distractions, > >while instead all you've done is accepted an > alternate dosage of the same > >cultural opiate... > > > > I'm not sure if I understand you here...you're > saying that the ideas > presented by Wilson and his ilk are just something > else to believe in, or no > more relevent than other religous denominations or > belief systems. By > 'cultural opiate' I just assume you make reference > to religion. If that is > the point you're trying to make, I would personally > have to disagree, > although technically I suppose you're right. The > difference I see, or at > least the factors which lead me towards this > 'belief' system rather than > others, is that it's based on non-belief. To quote > Wilson himself 'Belief > is the death of intelligence', and from what I've > grasped from 'Cosmic > Trigger' the only thing Wilson truely 'believes' in > is the development and > advancement of personal and scientific > understanding. The Numerology sutff > is a bit hard to swallow, but I think Wilson takes > it in support of Jung's > collective consciouness, or 'syncronicities'. I'm a > bit lost when it comes > to these matter, but thats why I'm so excited to get > hold of more literature > on the subject. Anyway, err, sorry for spouting off > like that. > Nick > >
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2003-01-31 22:32Charles FreemanIf you all are interested in Robert Anton Wilson and his colleagues you should check out o
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Charles Freeman
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Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:32:47 -0800 (PST)
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Re: [idm] Robert Anton Wilson (was boc)
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Re: [idm] boc
permalink · <20030131223247.36752.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
If you all are interested in Robert Anton Wilson and his colleagues you should check out our companies website at www.sound.photosynthesis.com We offer all sorts of material by Wilson and others on subjects ranging from psychedelics to physics to politics to philosophy. We offer video, audio, and publications. Our extensive catalog has titles from Richard Feynman, John C. Lilly, Terence McKenna, Huston Smith, and Arthur M. Young to name a few. We've got a lot of vary interesting stuff if you?re into these sorts of subjects. Come check us out! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2003-01-31 18:16seeklektekFrom: <adam@damek.org> > No. Media. > Propaganda and distraction. > > The things that keep
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seeklektek
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Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:16:52 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book
permalink · <13ce01c2c954$ee90fb70$875be40c@obelisk>
From: <adam@damek.org>
quoted 6 lines No. Media.> No. Media. > Propaganda and distraction. > > The things that keep us from paying attention to what's going on in the world > by convincing us that they're telling us what's going on in the world while in > fact they are not.
Yes, pay attention to the world that 'they' manufacture for you: pay no attention to that man behind that man behind the curtain. Who is Number 1?
quoted 3 lines I know, I know, dem's fightin' words...> I know, I know, dem's fightin' words... > Anyway, the whole "reality is relative" thing is good for a laugh until you're > staring down the barrel of a gun. That's when it's time to make a decision...
Sure: believe in facism or laugh in the ugly face of the pretender. "Ha ha", I say.
quoted 2 lines OK, that was rather cliche, I hate it when people say things like that, but> OK, that was rather cliche, I hate it when people say things like that, but > it's true.
Ok: now you can hate yourself for believing it: join the club.
quoted 3 lines Now, you can change your perceptions with regard to what you value -> Now, you can change your perceptions with regard to what you value - > you can have certian ethics and values - but the reality to which you apply > them isn't different just because you want it to be.
Gobbledygook.
quoted 3 lines Quick and dirty example - just because many people in the 10th Century in> Quick and dirty example - just because many people in the 10th Century in > western Europe believed that Sol revolved around Terra doesn't mean that it > actually did...
How do you know that it didn't? Where you there? The theory describes the reality it creates. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. http://www.visi.com/~lazlo/gallery/bob1.gif
quoted 2 lines OK, to completely disclose my bias, I've only read most of one Illuminatus> OK, to completely disclose my bias, I've only read most of one Illuminatus > book,
Tipper Fucking Gore.
quoted 7 lines and just personally felt it was complete and utter mental trash, and I> and just personally felt it was complete and utter mental trash, and I > just personally don't really enjoy that sort of thing. I understand that > others do, but I wish such distractions would keep so many bright, capable > individuals from realizing their potential and actually doing something in > life. I could say the same about video games, yet I wasted 4 days last week > playing Civilization 3 and Alpha Centauri and trying to make my linux box > record video...
Bitter biter blows bunk. .o0O}seeklektek{O0o. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2003-01-31 18:47adam@damek.orgMr. Seeklektek, I usually agree with your anti-establishment sentiments on this list, but
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Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:47:45 -0600 (CST)
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Re: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book
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Re: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book
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Mr. Seeklektek, I usually agree with your anti-establishment sentiments on this list, but I have no idea what the hell you're talking about below. Quoting seeklektek <eclectic@attbi.com>:
quoted 1 line Sure: believe in facism or laugh in the ugly face of the pretender.> Sure: believe in facism or laugh in the ugly face of the pretender.
What fascism? Traditional fascism? Corporate fascism? What are you talking about?
quoted 5 lines OK, that was rather cliche, I hate it when people say things like> > OK, that was rather cliche, I hate it when people say things like > that, but > > it's true. > > Ok: now you can hate yourself for believing it: join the club.
Well, if I ever find myself in the position to effectively martyr myself, I may take it, but in general, you can't do much to change the world when you're dead. I don't hate myself for believing facts. People who go around actually claiming that if you believe you won't die, you won't die, are no better than people who sell magnets to cure all ills. The scientific method is just a tool like a hammer, and it is good. Don't be afraid to use it...
quoted 7 lines Now, you can change your perceptions with regard to what you value -> > Now, you can change your perceptions with regard to what you value - > > you can have certian ethics and values - but the reality to which you > apply > > them isn't different just because you want it to be. > > > Gobbledygook.
No. If you think so, you misunderstood me, or you're insane. All I'm saying is we can value things like cars and CDs, or we can value a fulfilling life, and question what makes a fulfilling life, and choose to live our lives accordingly. The cars and CDs will still exist (if people are making them).
quoted 8 lines Quick and dirty example - just because many people in the 10th Century> > Quick and dirty example - just because many people in the 10th Century > in > > western Europe believed that Sol revolved around Terra doesn't mean > that it > > actually did... > > > How do you know that it didn't? Where you there?
No, but I or anyone else can perform experiments to test the current state of the universe, and, barring miracles, it is unreasonable to think that the state of the universe then was so much different than it is now.
quoted 1 line The theory describes the reality it creates.> The theory describes the reality it creates.
OK, you've been reading too much of the crap this is making fun of: http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/transgress_v2/transgress_v2.html
quoted 2 lines Put that in your pipe and smoke it.> Put that in your pipe and smoke it. > http://www.visi.com/~lazlo/gallery/bob1.gif
Ah, another meaningless distraction. Unless I'm misinformed, the cult of Bob does nothing but play with words. I like these people better: http://www.earthfirstjournal.org/efj/feature.cfm?ID=178 I have a feeling this is just going to turn into another fruitless argument, so I'll just leave it with one final sentiment: support democratic co-ops, fight feudal corporations, and say yes to music and no to war... -Adam Piontek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2003-01-31 21:01skism> -----Original Message----- > From: adam@damek.org [mailto:adam@damek.org] > Sent: 31 Jan
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skism
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Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:01:44 -0000
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RE: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book
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Re: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book
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quoted 5 lines -----Original Message-----> -----Original Message----- > From: adam@damek.org [mailto:adam@damek.org] > Sent: 31 January 2003 18:48 > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Re: bitter biter bans book
...
quoted 5 lines The theory describes the reality it creates.> > The theory describes the reality it creates. > > OK, you've been reading too much of the crap this is making fun of: > http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/transgress_v2/transgress_v2.html >
Yeah, this was quite funny... but to be honest the scientific community isn't really in a much better position, what with Hendrik Schön's recent shenanigans at Bell labs, and a slew of spoof papers printed by several scientific publications (there were ones on the origins of inertia and a few fake dinosaur ones IIRC). skism --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org