IDM Mailing Archive

my $0.02 First off, I am a guitarist, singer songwriter who has performed in numerous bands etc... and also have a love of IDMish electronic music.... Alomst every single IDM show I have seen has been a waste of my time and has bored my ass off, so much so that I am intentionally missing the autechre show here in seattle coming up, because really, I am sure their CDs would sound better anyway.... One exception being when I saw Orbital... but then again I was on heavy doses of happy pills.... What I would like to see is, and I know the technology exists to do this because I use it in the studio (Logic Audio) is much more improvisation, interactivity etc... The people want to see you play your instrument. If your instrument is a mouse then stay in the studio and forget about touring... At the very least, just have the drum parts be sequenced and actually play the other parts live on a keyboard... If you were to take it to the limit, you could have it so that every minute part of your song could be triggered/untriggered/layered in what ever order you wanted so that you could extend it, break it down in new ways and/or improvise over a little jam section depending on the croud mood..... Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see where the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits... you can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers moving, etc.... Basically, if you have any real musical skill your live shows will be impressive... twiddling knobs is not musical skill per say... composition is musical skill, twiddling knobs is sound design, but performance is a completely other matter altogether.... peace --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines Basically, if you have any real musical skill your live shows will be

>Basically, if you have any real musical skill your live shows will be >impressive... twiddling knobs is not musical skill per say... >composition is musical skill, twiddling knobs is sound design, but >performance is a completely other matter altogether....

Although, you have to admit that it is pretty funny seeing big (tall or "built"), geeky looking guys hunch over a board twisting little knobs with a look of stern concentration is pretty funny :D cheers, /derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- now updated daily --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

IDMs, The live performance of IDM looks remarkably like the stereotypical mad scientist scene in a randomly chosen sci-fi B-movie. Quite a far cry from the low-ball pandering typical of much live performance through the ages. Still, is most live IDM worth seeing? Consider the linguistic implications: one goes not attend(only) to listen, but to see a concert. There typically is not much to see at an IDM concert, and one may find the flickering EXIT sign to be the most visually intriguing aspect of the entire show. A few aspects of IDM performance which may make the experience worthwhile and differentiated from simply listening on the stereo at home: - (at least at times) an element of improvisation - an element of interplay between performers and audience (perhaps the performers adapt their works to soothe or disorient the particular mood of the audience on a given evening) - hearing one's favorite little noise ditties on a generally neighbor-hostile sound system ("Listen, honey! They're playing our song! It's "Second Bad Vilbel"!") - the communal experience of sharing a room with similarly moved mad-scientist types - watching the blinking lights - post-facto justification of one's own childhood mad scientist experiments which nearly blew up the house ("See, Mom?") And, the number one reason to attend an IDM "concert": "Quick, give me the binoculars! What the hell is that blue analogue 2-rack space thing, 4 spaces down on the second rack from the left?" For all those who do indeed plan to attend an IDM show, please remember the number-one rule: NO DANCING. NO EXCEPTIONS. Cheers, 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines And, the number one reason to attend an IDM "concert":

>And, the number one reason to attend an IDM "concert": >"Quick, give me the binoculars! What the hell is that blue analogue >2-rack space thing, 4 spaces down on the second rack from the left?" >

hahaha!!! great one, Zenon ;-) gear-spotting is a lovely hobby!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I suppose all of you who complain about the lack of IDM stage show have a disco ball that you fire up everytime you put Autechre on your home stereo? I mean honestly, does everybody think that _In the Mood For Love_ was a bad movie because there were no vfx or car chases? Rock music's self-consciousness about its inherent lack of authenticity is probably the biggest reason that a premium is put on a "show" despite the presence of an almost insurmountable performer/audience gap. I don't see why IDM should inherit this particular conundrum, but the fact that it does is pretty telling of its relationship with club music (which is generally presented by a DJ sequestered in a booth somewhere). I personally don't have a problem with an IDMer playing pre-recorded tracks at a gig, namely because I trust that the performer has decided that this will result in something more listenable than something off the cuff. Besides, people-watching is a very underrated way to pass the time when confronted by the laptop brigade. I mean, what the fuck, it seems like the only thing that defines a "good stage show" these days is either having a scantily clad woman front and center or running around like a monkey. And who wants to be the Sammy Hagar of IDM? I mean, besides Cex. -rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 12:42 PM 4/9/2001 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 5 lines Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous

>Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous >insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see where >the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits... you >can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers >moving, etc....

I'm a fan, and there is NOTHING less interesting to me than watching someone pluck strings and sing. The sound of the average human voice and average "real" instrument really bores me. Why would I care how well someone can move his fingers? I want to hear music, not watch someone's miraculous technique. Cecilia Bartoli singing, sure. Most people on stage? No. I can't even pretend to be apologetic about how boring I find the "four guys with instruments on stage" routine. Electronic music please. I can't wait to hear Autechre live here in LA. If they don't jump around like Limp Bizkit, I won't care. ---- Jeff Pitrman http://component.robotcore.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on 4/9/01 11:42 AM, Josh Bown at josh@undertone.com wrote:

quoted 1 line Also, learn to play a real instrument!!!

> Also, learn to play a real instrument!!!

Being one who can play a guitar, but prefers his laptop to a conventional instrument, the only instrument I believe anyone should learn to play is the one you were born with, your creative mind. Express creativity in any faucet you can whether it's with a guitar, or just on a computer. It's all about the creative process. Peter "Pachinko" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

im not sure what it is, but theres something about seeing mike p. half lying on the floor of the stage so that he can reach both the machines on top of and beneath the table in front of him, all the while bobbing his head, and then popping back up again, still bobbing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

If i hear another guitar, bass, drum set i am going to puke... this music has been played to death!! it has ALL been done, every combination of every string imaginable has been done. A real instrument! Synths are real instruments. computers are real instruments. so is a water bottle. insights from nature of music, no thanks, ill take my insight from technology and the inspiration of what wonderful sounds we have all NOT heard yet. which I guarantee you is not going to come from a "real" instrument such as a guitar, bass, drums, horn or whatever "acoustic" or non electronic instrument. I can see oscillator or bits. actually i create them. so can you. :) Instead of the string vibrating, i see things on an oscillator. much more appealing to a person into IDM music. ~swamay~ www.swamay.com www.mp3.com/swamay <<Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see where the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits... you can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers moving, etc>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:42 PM Subject: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?

quoted 45 lines my $0.02

> my $0.02 > > First off, I am a guitarist, singer songwriter who has performed in > numerous bands etc... and also have a love of IDMish electronic > music.... > > Alomst every single IDM show I have seen has been a waste of my time and > has bored my ass off, so much so that I am intentionally missing the > autechre show here in seattle coming up, because really, I am sure their > CDs would sound better anyway.... > > One exception being when I saw Orbital... but then again I was on heavy > doses of happy pills.... > > What I would like to see is, and I know the technology exists to do this > because I use it in the studio (Logic Audio) is much more improvisation, > interactivity etc... The people want to see you play your instrument. If > your instrument is a mouse then stay in the studio and forget about > touring... At the very least, just have the drum parts be sequenced > and actually play the other parts live on a keyboard... > > If you were to take it to the limit, you could have it so that every > minute part of your song could be triggered/untriggered/layered in what > ever order you wanted so that you could extend it, break it down in new > ways and/or improvise over a little jam section depending on the croud > mood..... > > Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous > insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see where > the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits... you > can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers > moving, etc.... > > Basically, if you have any real musical skill your live shows will be > impressive... twiddling knobs is not musical skill per say... > composition is musical skill, twiddling knobs is sound design, but > performance is a completely other matter altogether.... > > peace > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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At 01:04 PM 4/9/2001 -0700, swamay wrote:

quoted 2 lines If i hear another guitar, bass, drum set i am going to puke... this music

>If i hear another guitar, bass, drum set i am going to puke... this music >has been played to death!!

right, like Low, Labradford, Red Snapper, etc.

quoted 1 line I can see oscillator or bits. actually i create them.

>I can see oscillator or bits. actually i create them.

You create oscillators? wow.

quoted 2 lines Instead of the string vibrating, i see things on an oscillator. much more

>Instead of the string vibrating, i see things on an oscillator. much more >appealing to a person into IDM music.

the vibrations of stringed instruments follow the same mathematical properties that oscillators are designed to emulate. Same with all other instruments. They're just more complex, and, ironically, usually sound better by themselves than with other things mucking them up. That's why when artists like Autechre or Aphex use these "real instruments," they tend to use them unmodified, or with only slight modification. Sorry, I don't like watching my friends use the computer, like "oh let's go hang out. i can check my email and hop on irc." Ever wonder why so many people say "For all I know, he was checking his email, but it sounded good." If they're not doing things you can see, how do you know it's being made on the spot? They could have Reaktor open and some knobs next to them that they're twisting, with headphones on, but have a minidisk stashed behind the monitor just playing the music. Geez. It's like all you IDM people just wanna go see milli vanilli without the dancing. cheers, /derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- now updated daily --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on 4/9/01 12:04 PM, swamay at swamay@home.com wrote:

quoted 9 lines If i hear another guitar, bass, drum set i am going to puke... this music

> If i hear another guitar, bass, drum set i am going to puke... this music > has been played to death!! it has ALL been done, every combination of every > string imaginable has been done. A real instrument! Synths are real > instruments. computers are real instruments. so is a water bottle. > insights from nature of music, no thanks, ill take my insight from > technology and the inspiration of what wonderful sounds we have all NOT > heard yet. which I guarantee you is not going to come from a "real" > instrument such as a guitar, bass, drums, horn or whatever "acoustic" or non > electronic instrument.

I have to disagree with this statement. Sometimes creating something new doesn't have to be a particular sound, it can be structure, like Radiohead. Anyway, this is idm, but I disagree with the later of this statement. Peter "Pachinko" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org