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Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster

8 messages · 7 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
2000-12-15 22:15brian albers [idm] Re: loopbuster
└─ 2000-12-16 00:14Guillaume Grenier Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
2000-12-16 00:50Kevin Ryan @ Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
2000-12-16 01:24Mxyzptlk Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
└─ 2000-12-16 00:33Guillaume Grenier Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
2000-12-16 08:57Kurt Hoffman Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
└─ 2000-12-16 20:09theweedjs Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
2000-12-16 20:08++ Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
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2000-12-15 22:15brian albers>> >>2) ALL music is loops. And manipulations thereof. Name me ONE sort of >>music >that d
From:
brian albers
To:
Date:
Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:15:57
Subject:
[idm] Re: loopbuster
permalink · <F304G1KiaexdDAO2Rpy00000bec@hotmail.com>
quoted 8 lines 2) ALL music is loops. And manipulations thereof. Name me ONE sort of>> >>2) ALL music is loops. And manipulations thereof. Name me ONE sort of >>music >that doesnt and, well, I'll fuck a dog or something. Thats how sure I am. > > >any of the John Cage pieces composed by random processes is not loop based. >
Although I'm not so familiar with his work, perhaps Arnold Shoenberg's 12 tone compositions fit into the "non loop based" category. Perhaps Zappa? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-16 00:14Guillaume GrenierOn 15/12/00 17:15, brian albers said in living color: >>> 2) ALL music is loops. And manip
From:
Guillaume Grenier
To:
idm
Date:
Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:14:11 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
Reply to:
[idm] Re: loopbuster
permalink · <B6601E03.14565%gollum@videotron.ca>
On 15/12/00 17:15, brian albers said in living color:
quoted 10 lines 2) ALL music is loops. And manipulations thereof. Name me ONE sort of>>> 2) ALL music is loops. And manipulations thereof. Name me ONE sort of >>> music >>> that doesnt and, well, I'll fuck a dog or something. Thats how sure I am. >> >> >> any of the John Cage pieces composed by random processes is not loop based. >> > > Although I'm not so familiar with his work, perhaps Arnold Shoenberg's 12 > tone compositions fit into the "non loop based" category. Perhaps Zappa?
No, actually, Schoenberg's serial works are heavily "loop" based, if you accept a loose definition of loop, which seems to be what the "fuck-a-dog challenge" person had in mind. The whole point of serial composition is that you start with a, hmm... is it "row" in English? and you sprinkle it everywhere in the work, reversing it, transposing it, mirroring it, and otherwise transforming it. Zappa's music is also of course very loop based, being rock (where loops, or repeated patterns, are usually quite recognizable and all over the place). But, I admit that Cage's chance pieces is an interesting proposition... ;) Are there loops in chaos? g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-16 00:50Kevin Ryan @<<But, I admit that Cage's chance pieces is an interesting proposition... ;) Are there loo
From:
Kevin Ryan @
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Date:
Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:50:31 -0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
permalink · <F277f2LTrpwACkWHZqY00000de6@hotmail.com>
<<But, I admit that Cage's chance pieces is an interesting proposition... ;) Are there loops in chaos?>> The dog-fucker might be off the hook here. Some of Cage's most experimental pieces are collages of reel-to-reel tape, in which case the music is made using two kinds of loops: (1) the tape mechanism itself is a loop and (2) the making of the tape consisted of a repetitive (looped) process of snipping pseudorandom parts of other tapes (Cage and a few friends lounged around on an apartment floor in Chicago and just snipped tapes all night). It's harder to find loops in Cage's so-called "silent" pieces. In 4'33" the pianist opens and closes the piano, waits, and repeats that action 3 times, so that's a loop in the liberal sense of the term we are using. Although Cage's intent with the piece was to focus on the sounds of the audience, the ventilation system, etc., and he regretted later in life that he had the pianist do anything, there still remains that loop in the piece, and Cage never wrote a completely silent piece. Cage also wrote a number of relatively traditional compositions, which have the same kinds of loops any classical music would. In fact, isn't anything with a score loopish to some extent? I mean, even if you score with a parametric schema, like Cage, you still have repeated "bars" or other graphic iterations on the page, right? And Cage did score all of his pieces, as far as I know. I suppose you can find loops anywhere if you're feeling loopy enough. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-16 01:24MxyzptlkAt first glance, it would seem not (by definition). Perhaps, though, the difficulty would
From:
Mxyzptlk
To:
Guillaume Grenier
Cc:
idm
Date:
Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:24:30 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
permalink · <3A3AC44E.515BD278@telocity.com>
At first glance, it would seem not (by definition). Perhaps, though, the difficulty would lie in perpiscuity rather than in the actual existence of them. In which case, though, it wouldn't make a lot of practical difference for arguing the point (and actually would be a rather cheap form of argumentation). jeff Guillaume Grenier wrote:
quoted 4 lines But, I admit that Cage's chance pieces is an interesting proposition... ;)> But, I admit that Cage's chance pieces is an interesting proposition... ;) > > Are there loops in chaos? >
jeff ?/~THINK OUTSIDE OF YOUR SITCOM~\! ICQ904008 (but I'm never on) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-16 00:33Guillaume GrenierOn 15/12/00 20:24, Mxyzptlk said in living color: > At first glance, it would seem not (by
From:
Guillaume Grenier
To:
idm
Date:
Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:33:38 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
permalink · <B6602292.14569%gollum@videotron.ca>
On 15/12/00 20:24, Mxyzptlk said in living color:
quoted 13 lines At first glance, it would seem not (by definition). Perhaps, though, the> At first glance, it would seem not (by definition). Perhaps, though, the > difficulty would lie in perpiscuity rather than in the actual existence of > them. > In which case, though, it wouldn't make a lot of practical difference for > arguing > the point (and actually would be a rather cheap form of argumentation). > jeff > > Guillaume Grenier wrote: > >> But, I admit that Cage's chance pieces is an interesting proposition... ;) >> >> Are there loops in chaos?
Well, then, I'm afraid that... g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-16 08:57Kurt Hoffman>The dog-fucker might be off the hook here. Some >of Cage's most experimental pieces are c
From:
Kurt Hoffman
To:
Cc:
Kevin Ryan @
Date:
Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:57:54 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
permalink · <p04320403b660d8baf6c4@[216.220.110.159]>
quoted 8 lines The dog-fucker might be off the hook here. Some>The dog-fucker might be off the hook here. Some >of Cage's most experimental pieces are collages >of reel-to-reel tape, in which case the music is >made using two kinds of loops: (1) the tape >mechanism itself is a loop and (2) the making of >the tape consisted of a repetitive (looped) >process of snipping pseudorandom parts of other >tapes
whose side are you on anyway? I mean DO you want to see the guy fuck a dog or NOT?? first of all, a reel of tape is not a loop. It is a spiral. Ask any snail about the difference. second, there are lots of Cage pieces that do not seem to be the result of repetitive activities. For instance, piano pieces that were generated by splattering some ink on score paper. still. the original poster had a point. music, like dog fucking, is almost inseparable from the idea of repetition and variation. kurt --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-16 20:09theweedjsOn Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:57:54 -0500, you wrote: >>The dog-fucker might be off the hook here
From:
theweedjs
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Cc:
Date:
Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:09:31 +0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
permalink · <onin3tcnbflh2veegrurrgrt9obsjj5dm1@4ax.com>
On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:57:54 -0500, you wrote:
quoted 16 lines The dog-fucker might be off the hook here. Some>>The dog-fucker might be off the hook here. Some >>of Cage's most experimental pieces are collages >>of reel-to-reel tape, in which case the music is >>made using two kinds of loops: (1) the tape >>mechanism itself is a loop and (2) the making of >>the tape consisted of a repetitive (looped) >>process of snipping pseudorandom parts of other >>tapes > > > >whose side are you on anyway? I mean DO you want to see the guy fuck >a dog or NOT?? > >first of all, a reel of tape is not a loop. It is a spiral. Ask any >snail about the difference.
Yup...its a spiral UNTIL you cut it and make loops from it.....but anyway this thread is stupid...... It doesnt fuckin matter how ANYONE makes their music.....if people like it or not does not matter....... You lot are the ones stuck in a loop........ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-16 20:08++> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:14:11 -0500 > To: idm <idm@hyperreal.org> > From: Guillaume Gr
From:
++
To:
Date:
Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:08:39 -0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster
permalink · <OE8gPasSmz6UuEhjJ8u0000024f@hotmail.com>
quoted 11 lines Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:14:11 -0500> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:14:11 -0500 > To: idm <idm@hyperreal.org> > From: Guillaume Grenier <gollum@videotron.ca> > Subject: Re: [idm] Re: loopbuster > Message-ID: <B6601E03.14565%gollum@videotron.ca> > > On 15/12/00 17:15, brian albers said in living color: > > >>> 2) ALL music is loops. And manipulations thereof. Name me ONE sort of > >>> music > >>> that doesnt and, well, I'll fuck a dog or something. Thats how sure I
am.
quoted 3 lines any of the John Cage pieces composed by random processes is not loop> >> > >> > >> any of the John Cage pieces composed by random processes is not loop
based.
quoted 3 lines Although I'm not so familiar with his work, perhaps Arnold Shoenberg's> >> > > > > Although I'm not so familiar with his work, perhaps Arnold Shoenberg's
12
quoted 7 lines tone compositions fit into the "non loop based" category. Perhaps Zappa?> > tone compositions fit into the "non loop based" category. Perhaps Zappa? > > No, actually, Schoenberg's serial works are heavily "loop" based, if you > accept a loose definition of loop, which seems to be what the "fuck-a-dog > challenge" person had in mind. > > The whole point of serial composition is that you start with a, hmm... is
it
quoted 1 line "row" in English? and you sprinkle it everywhere in the work, reversing> "row" in English? and you sprinkle it everywhere in the work, reversing
it,
quoted 1 line transposing it, mirroring it, and otherwise transforming it.> transposing it, mirroring it, and otherwise transforming it.
yeah reminds me of the definition that music is the pleasure of unconscious counting. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org