IDM Mailing Archive

ChairCrusher <kent@avalon.net> writes:

quoted 4 lines When you hear a melody it has an emotional resonance that is, for most

>>When you hear a melody it has an emotional resonance that is, for most >>people, lacking in pure rhythm music. But that doesn't need to be the >>case -- when a good DJ drops "The Bells" by Jeff Mills into a set, you >>would need a heart of stone to resist the propulsive mood of that track.

I always thought the single reason "The Bells" is so popular is because of its 4-tone melodic hook (played by the "bells," I suppose). The percussion is extremely propulsive, but I don't think the rhythm alone would stand out so far from among Detroit tracks if it wasn't for the hook. Somebody writes:

quoted 4 lines but people who think IDM is

>>> but people who think IDM is >>> "the most complex music" really ought to check out other sections of the >>> record store before they pat themselves on the back again for being so >>> "deep". . .

Who wants complex music? I sure don't. (And remember, a Beethoven symphony becomes MUCH more complex when played by bad musicians!) martin <martin.wood@advent-comm.co.uk> responds:

quoted 5 lines john coltrane

>>john coltrane >> >>if theres one musician i think everyone has to check out its trane.. >> >>devastating

Um, if I had to pick one word for Coltrane, it would be "inaccessible." At least for his later free-form period. I personally don't like all his noodling around, but that's just a personal opinion, not a judgement of talent--he is the man when it comes to saxophone. It seems very excessive to me--and if I didn't know better (but I do), I might say he was trying to show off his skills. "Giant steps" is a very accessible album, that's the one I own..."India" is pretty amazing, but I just have trouble listening to it for more than 15 minutes (in other words, I'm working on it). But I don't listen to or enjoy jazz so I'll stop right now. Stravinsky's "Le Sacre du Printemps," however, there's some gratuitous complexity I can understand. Drusca <drusca@erols.com> asks:

quoted 1 line How does non-repetition lead to liberation of melody ?

>>>How does non-repetition lead to liberation of melody ?

Good question--it doesn't, not exactly. But "Tristan und Isolde" was a turning point in romanticism (perhaps the most influential piece written in the 19th century) which liberated art music from its classical structure focusing on parsed and repeated phrases. You're right, I'm giving it too much credit; but at the same time, it really helped get the ball rolling for future experimentalists.

quoted 1 line if you listen to a lot of the music of the Futurists

>>> if you listen to a lot of the music of the Futurists

I haven't. I've just read their literature. Thanks for the recommendation.

quoted 3 lines It's kind of funny to dismiss the theories of a highly, highly

>>>It's kind of funny to dismiss the theories of a highly, highly >>>intelligent man >>>like Cage by simply calling them "lame".

Yeah, it is funny, but I do think it's a bad aesthetic. Just like Cage was an anarchist, and I believe anarchism is pretty stupid. Cage was important as a wake-up call to 20th century art; he took minimalism/maximalism to an extreme and really created a stir. In other words, it is the events the Cage created, imo, not so much his music, that were influential. How often do you listen to 4'33"?

quoted 3 lines Trance, house, jungle, etc are supposed to be repetitive,

>>>>> Trance, house, jungle, etc are supposed to be repetitive, >>> >>>Says who ?

Well, listen to them! TheevilD@aol.com writes:

quoted 3 lines Its very difficult to define what is intentional: once our attention is

>>Its very difficult to define what is intentional: once our attention is >>called to a sound, we put it on a pedestal, and listen to that rather than >>other sounds.

Well, that was Cage's point. "Intentional" for Cage described sounds coming from the stage--sounds that a composer wrote to a score. "Nonintentional" was left for anything else--sounds coming from the audience, the air, outside, etc. Cage wanted to show that both kinds of sounds are legitimate music. I'd write more but I have to leave right now...kevin mR.

On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Kevin Ryan wrote:

quoted 10 lines martin <martin.wood@advent-comm.co.uk> responds:

> martin <martin.wood@advent-comm.co.uk> responds: > >>john coltrane > >> > >>if theres one musician i think everyone has to check out its trane.. > >> > >>devastating > > Um, if I had to pick one word for Coltrane, it would > be "inaccessible." At least for his later free-form > period. I personally don't like all his noodling around,

I don't know -- I find "Interstellar Space" to be immensely accessible once you let yourself appreciate it purely as a sonic environment. Coltrane's music demands a surrender from the listener -- if you try to keep up with him using your analytical mind you'll be exhausted. Better to just let the sound wash over you. There are many pretty atypical Coltrane recordings that give you some idea of his range -- I love the "Ballads" record, and the "Africa Brass" sessions with Eric Dolphy.

quoted 3 lines Stravinsky's "Le Sacre du Printemps," however, there's

> Stravinsky's "Le Sacre du Printemps," however, there's > some gratuitous complexity I can understand. >

Sacre is ripe for a Funkstorung remix ;-)

quoted 3 lines if you listen to the Futurists

>>>if you listen to the Futurists > I haven't. I've only read their literature. Thanks for the > recommendation.

Whoops! When I said something like the above, I wasn't being sarcastic. I've seriously read Marinetti and Luigi Russolo but never heard Futurist music. I'm just getting started in avant garde music and am always receptive to recommendations for recordings. Which reminds me, I've never heard any John Cage either. Isn't it strange, I'm talking about music I've never heard? I guess that's because John Cage to me is more of a musical philosopher than a musician. I like to think I can understand quite a bit about his music without ever hearing it. But if anyone knows any good Cage recordings I should get into, let me know. BTW, Russolo's "Futurist Manifesto" is well worth reading if you're into experimental music. And just to be consistent with the Subject line, here's a couple of my favorite quotes from relevant sources: Marinetti: "Glorify war, the only cleanser of the world." Rakim: "As heavy as hip hop gets, I'm always ready to drop it." Thankyou. kevin mr.

Kevin M Ryan wrote:

quoted 4 lines I've seriously read Marinetti and

> I've seriously read Marinetti and > Luigi Russolo but never heard Futurist music. I'm just > getting started in avant garde music and am always > receptive to recommendations for recordings.

Edgar Varese is really the most talented composer attached to that school. A 2CD set of his complete works came out on London/Decca recently. You've gotta hear this piece "Deserts" which includes a tape part. It's sooo noisy.

quoted 2 lines I guess that's because John Cage to me is more of a

> I guess that's because John Cage to me is more of a > musical philosopher than a musician.

Italian composer Berio made a revealing comment about Cage when he said that even though Cage doesn't like to put intent into his pieces they still sound like Cage.

quoted 1 line Marinetti: "Glorify war, the only cleanser of the world."

> Marinetti: "Glorify war, the only cleanser of the world."

You've gotta be careful with the Futurists. They tended to be fascists, chauvinists, xenophobes, etc.. Andrei

On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Drusca wrote:

quoted 5 lines Edgar Varese is really the most talented composer attached to that

> Edgar Varese is really the most talented composer attached to that > school. > A 2CD set of his complete works came out on London/Decca recently. > You've gotta hear this piece "Deserts" which includes a tape part. It's > sooo noisy.

What school? I heard that many of the re-recordings on that set were a drag, but... more importantly, how is the unearthed "Ameriques"? -rob ps- didn't Varese use some ondes martinots (a _really_ primitive electronic synth)