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Re: (idm) Non Idm-----Infinity

4 messages · 3 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
1999-06-11 13:12Kelley Hackett (idm) Non Idm-----Infinity
1999-06-11 14:54david turgeon Re: (idm) Non Idm-----Infinity
1999-06-11 15:21Re: (idm) Non Idm-----Infinity
1999-06-11 15:27Kelley Hackett RE: (idm) Non Idm-----Infinity
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1999-06-11 13:12Kelley HackettI hate to enter into your discussion---its tastey though. Get this, Infinity is a concept
From:
Kelley Hackett
To:
'Moonlight' ,
Cc:
'Sam Frank'
Date:
Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:12:45 -0500
Subject:
(idm) Non Idm-----Infinity
permalink · <397CA68ABF5AD111863C00805F0DDE980D467B@aba.iupui.edu>
I hate to enter into your discussion---its tastey though. Get this, Infinity is a concept which I dont think humans should even deal with! For there is only One Entity which can understand the term, and is, get this now, Outside of the term! Fuck the Math stuff, for just think, all of the mathematical formulas and or scientific knowledge has always progressed forward(it has been proven untrue--at least some of it----) thru the years, if U feel me. Thus, our mere conjecture at such a term is at best fruitless! Despite the fact if the theory was correct all the time---where has it gotten the world------a better form of living(some would argue), better personalities, nope! Also, what do humans know of that is Infinite? One thing. Proof, sounds like a Western Scientific question? It sounds like one is saying, if it doesnt alert the 6 senses, then it cant be true(the Major Pitfall of Western Science)...........Many things exists which dont alert the senses----but some dont believe it, its cool. I understand that side. But there are so many things which exist in this 3-D plane that we Still dont know about that just the thought of the term Infinity, becomes trite(although it does interest me---the abstractness of it all). Give me an example U ask? Hmmm. I point u toward the molecular world, the atomic, the cellular--- before microscopes what did they believe? My point, this shit is contingent upon our discovering it.....but we should never be so foolish as to rule something out, because we just dont know---------I would have thought that humans would have learned this pattern in Human history long ago-----but as a Very wise man once said, "there is nothing new being done under the sun"! aaaaaaaahhhhh, Hk!
1999-06-11 14:54david turgeon> I hate to enter into your discussion---its tastey though. i hate to enter into yours too
From:
david turgeon
To:
Kelley Hackett
Cc:
Date:
Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:54:41 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) Non Idm-----Infinity
permalink · <3761232B.91E1796B@mnemonic.net>
quoted 1 line I hate to enter into your discussion---its tastey though.> I hate to enter into your discussion---its tastey though.
i hate to enter into yours too, but it's even tastier.
quoted 9 lines Get this, Infinity is a concept which I dont think humans should even> Get this, Infinity is a concept which I dont think humans should even > deal with! For there is only One Entity which can understand the term, > and is, get this now, Outside of the term! Fuck the Math stuff, for > just think, all of the mathematical formulas and or scientific knowledge > has always progressed forward(it has been proven untrue--at least some > of it----) thru the years, if U feel me. Thus, our mere conjecture at > such a term is at best fruitless! Despite the fact if the theory was > correct all the time---where has it gotten the world------a better form > of living(some would argue), better personalities, nope!
mathematics aren't meant to represent reality but to understand it. i.e. they aren't esoteric images of some god (whose existence or nonexistence anybody has yet to prove, btw) but rather tools to quantify what we know of the universe. that is to say that i can't understand your point at all. infinity shouldn't be used in mathematics because we measly humans cannot understand the concept? where did you get that? i can understand infinity. you can understand infinity. you might not _know_ something infinite (neither do i) but that isn't the point -- mathematics is its own language, & within mathematics, infinity makes sense, just like chaos & quantum physics make sense from a physical point of view, or just like god makes sense from a religious point of view. (note that i don't mean to mesh them all together so crudely, but that's essentially what all these things are -- points of view).
quoted 15 lines Also, what do humans know of that is Infinite? One thing. Proof, sounds> Also, what do humans know of that is Infinite? One thing. Proof, sounds > like a Western Scientific question? It sounds like one is saying, if it > doesnt alert the 6 senses, then it cant be true(the Major Pitfall of > Western Science)...........Many things exists which dont alert the > senses----but some dont believe it, its cool. I understand that side. > But there are so many things which exist in this 3-D plane that we Still > dont know about that just the thought of the term Infinity, becomes > trite(although it does interest me---the abstractness of it all). Give > me an example U ask? Hmmm. I point u toward the molecular world, the > atomic, the cellular--- before microscopes what did they believe? My > point, this shit is contingent upon our discovering it.....but we should > never be so foolish as to rule something out, because we just dont > know---------I would have thought that humans would have learned this > pattern in Human history long ago-----but as a Very wise man once said, > "there is nothing new being done under the sun"!
nothing new is being done under the sun, perhaps (religion, philosophy & science have been repeating that over & over, although they sometimes dispute the assessment for one reason or another, usually championing free will), but new ways to look at the "nothing new" are thought of every minute. i think you've got your history wrong, actually. we _used_ to think that something had to alert the 5 (what's the 6th one?) senses in order for it to exist. & long before that we thought that things existed that didn't alert the senses. now we revised our definition of existence only to replace it by a _supposition_ of existence based on physical stimuli & calculations of probability in time-space. that is to say that existence isn't considered an absolute anymore, but rather a convention which we use when we mean that it would make sense for this or that object to exist in the universe as we envision it (see wittgenstein's theories on objects/events regarding how these frameworks are made). so why should we avoid infinity if it makes sense? people spend their whole lives trying to figure out a way of putting it all together so we can eventually know how to, say, cure cancer, drive spaceships, make music on cheaper software... & you would deprive them of a simple mathematical tool called infinity because "mere mortals cannot understand such a thing"? now, if you mean infinity in the religious sense... sure, we don't understand it. boo hoo. -- david turgeon at http://www.notype.com
1999-06-11 15:21Crtrdge003@aol.comIn a message dated 6/11/99 7:16:49 AM Mountain Daylight Time, KHACKETT@aba.iupui.edu write
From:
To:
,
Date:
Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:21:37 EDT
Subject:
Re: (idm) Non Idm-----Infinity
permalink · <6aa662d1.24928381@aol.com>
In a message dated 6/11/99 7:16:49 AM Mountain Daylight Time, KHACKETT@aba.iupui.edu writes:
quoted 3 lines -I would have thought that humans would have learned this> -I would have thought that humans would have learned this > pattern in Human history long ago-----but as a Very wise man once said, > "there is nothing new being done under the sun"!
you would think.. if our worlds self proclaimed "greatest minds" were as logical as they thought they were they would by accepted and embraced the idea that according to the path of history, looking at the way people used to think, and the way they do now, that one must draw the conclusion that pretty much anything could be possible. On another note I just saw the great movie "Good Will Hunting".. besides it being a great movie in itself, it's a perfect example of the nature of human intelligence and what it really means to be an "intelligent" person. If you ask me, I'd say the movie is an idm must see simply for <put word out of my vocab here> reasons. In that movie Matt Damon keeps company with his fellow mates from South East Boston.. none of them are anywhere near his level of understanding on math, etc. but they are the closest mates they could be, they are all on the same frequency.. Matt just happens to be able to juggle numbers and rearrange concepts alot easier.. it couldn't have less to do with their relationship to one another.. it's just what they do.. Take a psychological look at this list. For god's sake look at the name "intelligent" dance music. Meaning.. this is intelligent.. and that other stuff is stupid. That's all it possibly could mean.. there would be no reason to have to divide dance music unless we thought some of it was dumb and for some reason the shit we were listening to was superior. That is the nature of this list, it always has been. But here on the very list, the pinicale of elitism, we get into heated arguments on why Fat Boy Slim it just as important as Autechre. We don't like thinking we're "better" than other people... and by fucking god, of course we're not. Some people calculate finite math and some people don't, but having intellecual abilities doesn't mean you're a better person. That's the problem, that's the pill that nobody can swallow. People don't know how to deal with some cats (haha.. Kelley you've got me hooked) being smarter than other ones. Just because somebody may be better at you at something, such as finite math, doesn't mean they are a better person than you,.. SHIT GODDAMN it doesn't even mean you can't be friends!!! NO REALLY IT DOESN'T!!!!! What makes people friends it's something much higher than finite math.. the truth is each and every one of us on earth have the capacity to be friends with one another if we simply give a little. Nothing can stop us from all getting along if we have patience and love, the truth is all of us are GREAT and none of us are worthless. Nobody is better than anybody else and those of us who may be able grasp things a little easier than others should be taking that opportunity to expand the minds of others. That can be really hard sometimes, really really hard. But when you get the chance to truly help a person, that is the best thing you can do. Just as a great teacher once said, "The greatest thing you can do is to love your neighbor". and it still holds true to this day, it always will and always has. I know music, and mostly only my own at that, and not much else, oh well.. I don't read a whole hell of alot. I wish I did.. in the past few years I have learned that I actually love to read.. it's just.. I spend so much time making music and smoking weed (yes I know.. it's not good but I do..) that I never really get around to reading much. I actually plan to read alot in the future, but I don't believe I should be judged and written off (nobody should be written off for that matter) simply because I do not share your traits. Well that's all for now.. Aaron p.s. I know how much I don't know, but at least I know how much I don't know.. well I actually don't know exactly how much I don't know.. I just know it's a measure beyond my reckoning.
1999-06-11 15:27Kelley HackettThe same cat who some of U were against, Splits your wig with a fat ass message like this-
From:
Kelley Hackett
To:
'Crtrdge003@aol.com'
Cc:
'idm@hyperreal.org'
Date:
Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:27:02 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) Non Idm-----Infinity
permalink · <397CA68ABF5AD111863C00805F0DDE980D4687@aba.iupui.edu>
The same cat who some of U were against, Splits your wig with a fat ass message like this----sheeeez! big-up A, oooooohhhhh I feel ya man, I feel ya---- much is agreed here, MUCH Peace to ya, HK
quoted 120 lines -----Original Message-----> -----Original Message----- > From: Crtrdge003@aol.com [SMTP:Crtrdge003@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 10:22 AM > To: KHACKETT@aba.iupui.edu; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: (idm) Non Idm-----Infinity > > In a message dated 6/11/99 7:16:49 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > KHACKETT@aba.iupui.edu writes: > > > -I would have thought that humans would have learned this > > pattern in Human history long ago-----but as a Very wise man once > said, > > "there is nothing new being done under the sun"! > > you would think.. if our worlds self proclaimed "greatest minds" were > as > logical as they thought they were they would by accepted and embraced > the > idea that according to the path of history, looking at the way people > used to > think, and the way they do now, that one must draw the conclusion that > pretty > much anything could be possible. On another note I just saw the great > movie > "Good Will Hunting".. besides it being a great movie in itself, it's a > > perfect example of the nature of human intelligence and what it really > means > to be an "intelligent" person. If you ask me, I'd say the movie is an > idm > must see simply for <put word out of my vocab here> reasons. In that > movie > Matt Damon keeps company with his fellow mates from South East > Boston.. none > of them are anywhere near his level of understanding on math, etc. but > they > are the closest mates they could be, they are all on the same > frequency.. > Matt just happens to be able to juggle numbers and rearrange concepts > alot > easier.. it couldn't have less to do with their relationship to one > another.. > it's just what they do.. > > Take a psychological look at this list. For god's sake look at the > name > "intelligent" dance music. Meaning.. this is intelligent.. and that > other > stuff is stupid. That's all it possibly could mean.. there would be no > reason > to have to divide dance music unless we thought some of it was dumb > and for > some reason the shit we were listening to was superior. That is the > nature of > this list, it always has been. But here on the very list, the pinicale > of > elitism, we get into heated arguments on why Fat Boy Slim it just as > important as Autechre. We don't like thinking we're "better" than > other > people... and by fucking god, of course we're not. Some people > calculate > finite math and some people don't, but having intellecual abilities > doesn't > mean you're a better person. That's the problem, that's the pill that > nobody > can swallow. People don't know how to deal with some cats (haha.. > Kelley > you've got me hooked) being smarter than other ones. Just because > somebody > may be better at you at something, such as finite math, doesn't mean > they are > a better person than you,.. SHIT GODDAMN it doesn't even mean you > can't be > friends!!! NO REALLY IT DOESN'T!!!!! What makes people friends it's > something > much higher than finite math.. the truth is each and every one of us > on earth > have the capacity to be friends with one another if we simply give a > little. > Nothing can stop us from all getting along if we have patience and > love, the > truth is all of us are GREAT and none of us are worthless. Nobody is > better > than anybody else and those of us who may be able grasp things a > little > easier than others should be taking that opportunity to expand the > minds of > others. That can be really hard sometimes, really really hard. But > when you > get the chance to truly help a person, that is the best thing you can > do. > Just as a great teacher once said, "The greatest thing you can do is > to love > your neighbor". and it still holds true to this day, it always will > and > always has. > > I know music, and mostly only my own at that, and not much else, oh > well.. I > don't read a whole hell of alot. I wish I did.. in the past few years > I have > learned that I actually love to read.. it's just.. I spend so much > time > making music and smoking weed (yes I know.. it's not good but I do..) > that I > never really get around to reading much. I actually plan to read alot > in the > future, but I don't believe I should be judged and written off (nobody > should > be written off for that matter) simply because I do not share your > traits. > Well that's all for now.. > > Aaron > > p.s. I know how much I don't know, but at least I know how much I > don't > know.. well I actually don't know exactly how much I don't know.. I > just know > it's a measure beyond my reckoning.