IDM Mailing Archive

I hope this hasn't been treaded on too much already, but I can't help and wonder why there is such on obivous split among the U.S and U.K(Europe) styles of preference. While we can argue at what defines taste - the consumers of the producers, at the end of the day it comes to donw the the fact that America is obsessed with guitar music, while Europe, though it has it's fair share of guitar-based bands, seems to be SO much more electronic friendly. Is it because of the early German experimentation and pioneering? Is it because of the fact that Europeans can't sing (just a joke...)? While every American town has kids playing their little fender bass in the garage and stepping extra hard on the distortion pedals, I imagine all the little european kids with their little casio, fucking around with tape loops and primitive sampling......

On Sunday, 28-Jun-98, A. Mark Mukerjee wrote [about (idm) Usa=guitar-based, Uk=electronic?]:

quoted 9 lines I hope this hasn't been treaded on too much already, but I can't help and

>I hope this hasn't been treaded on too much already, but I can't help and >wonder why there is such on obivous split among the U.S and U.K(Europe) >styles of preference. >While we can argue at what defines taste - the consumers of the producers, >at the end of the day it comes to donw the the fact that America is >obsessed with guitar music, while Europe, though it has it's fair share of >guitar-based bands, seems to be SO much more electronic friendly. >Is it because of the early German experimentation and pioneering? Is it >because of the fact that Europeans can't sing (just a joke...)?

It's because the entire industry in america has been pushing guitar music since the entire industry began. and everybody likes guitar music, and for electronic music to even consider selling well in here, it's got to have guitars in it, and to some respect resemble the music that's already being made here.. that's what I think it is, just pure commercialist BS. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ 1cQ<->uIN \_____/ 1.3777993 "..in whatever you do, if you can't break new ground, what's the point?" - James Cameron

At 00:39 28-06-98 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 4 lines While every American town has kids playing their little fender bass in the

> While every American town has kids playing their little fender bass in the >garage and stepping extra hard on the distortion pedals, I imagine all the >little european kids with their little casio, fucking around with tape >loops and primitive sampling......

i wish it was like this. most people here like either the same rock shit as most people in the u.s. do, or ultra-commercial chart-club-house. so there are quite some little rock bandlets. and if people do try electronic music, they mostly don't look further than mc303s, cs1xes and rave-o-lution 309. so, it's a small world after all :) name [~] peter cozijn e-mail [~] pu@dds.nl http://huizen.dds.nl/~pu [~] homepage

quoted 12 lines And, of course, they're not fluff, but the United States has never been

>And, of course, they're not fluff, but the United States has never been >about subtle, refined taste. The States are about BIGGER, BETTER and >BADDER than YOU. > >Sure, the culture of the US is about freedom and opportunity, but deep >down, it's supported by a strong foundation of power and force and, I >think, the culture is infused by this. This is something that underlies >our politics, our philosophy and our culture. I live in the States, so >I'm not bashing it from afar, but I think this culture has become one of >power, pure and simple and that affects the music. And, when it comes >down to it, guitars are more powerful than electronics...or, so most >Americans believe.

I dunno about power, but I think Americans cant listen to anything that doesnt have lyrics. A comment I get a lot from trying to expose my fellow Americans to 'electronic music' is that "Hey!! THeres no words!!!" Im talking about *ANY* electronic music, to say nothing of IDM. There *is* a lull in rock right now and whats tearing up the US airwaves is drivel like Prodigy, Garbage 2.0 (rock-techno/w 303s), and Crystal Method. The "trip like I do" song is huge here - That is, the Filter version - WITH WORDS.. Everybody wants to either "trip like I do" or "smack" their "bitch up" cuz those are the worded mantras that people can vocalize, and the electronic components are just there to spice up the rock guitars. keep in mind this is less true in Detroit, NewYork or LA, but even the national media here pays less attention to 'wordless' acts. You WONT see Autechre on David Letterman or Saturday Night Live, and theres no John Peel :( People do like dance music, but "thats for clubs" , and when its 4am and its time to drive home, theyll throw on Dave Matthews or Jewel to mellow out. Ive just accepted the fact that decent music must be imported, and glimmers of hope like Schematic, Choc industries , and maybe now Orange ( fingers crossed) will hopefully change this in the future. my $.02 ernie Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17 Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircaft Systems Fort Worth, Texas

At 5:03 pm +0000 29/6/98, you wrote:

quoted 4 lines I dunno about power, but I think Americans cant listen to anything that

> >I dunno about power, but I think Americans cant listen to anything that >doesnt have lyrics. >

...and the lyrics must be in some dialect of Amerenglish. (The only exception must involve some sort of inane dance step). 3

On Tuesday, 30-Jun-98, Zenon M. Feszczak wrote [about Re: (idm) Usa=guitar-based, Uk=electronic?]:

quoted 1 line ...and the lyrics must be in some dialect of Amerenglish.

>...and the lyrics must be in some dialect of Amerenglish.

quoted 1 line (The only exception must involve some sort of inane dance step).

>(The only exception must involve some sort of inane dance step).

There's another exception, and that as well.. involves some sort of inane dance step. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ 1cQ<->uIN \_____/ 1.3777993 "..in whatever you do, if you can't break new ground, what's the point?" - James Cameron

quoted 8 lines It's because the entire industry in america has been pushing guitar music

> It's because the entire industry in america has been pushing guitar music > since the entire industry began. > > and everybody likes guitar music, and for electronic music to even consider > selling well in here, it's got to have guitars in it, and to some respect > resemble the music that's already being made here.. > > that's what I think it is, just pure commercialist BS.

Consider also that in the US, bigger is better. This applies to guitars just as it applies to cars (Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, etc), raw power is bigger and better than something more subtle, like the keyboard or synth is considered to be. And as far as that goes, consider what keyboard-based bands have REALLY worked over here lately. Prodigy, The Chemicals, Propellerheads (who are on their way, at least), and a bit of Orbital. These are electronic acts with a bigger, more raw sound (admittedly, with Orbital, only at times). Big beat and drum & bass are popular here because they remind Americans of heavy metal and rock 'n' roll and all that is bass-y about our music. Stuff like St. Etienne or Air (as representative electronic pop music) won't make it because they're not raw, they're fluff. And, of course, they're not fluff, but the United States has never been about subtle, refined taste. The States are about BIGGER, BETTER and BADDER than YOU. Sure, the culture of the US is about freedom and opportunity, but deep down, it's supported by a strong foundation of power and force and, I think, the culture is infused by this. This is something that underlies our politics, our philosophy and our culture. I live in the States, so I'm not bashing it from afar, but I think this culture has become one of power, pure and simple and that affects the music. And, when it comes down to it, guitars are more powerful than electronics...or, so most Americans believe. ---brian

quoted 8 lines Sure, the culture of the US is about freedom and opportunity, but deep

> Sure, the culture of the US is about freedom and opportunity, but deep >down, it's supported by a strong foundation of power and force and, I >think, the culture is infused by this. This is something that underlies >our politics, our philosophy and our culture. I live in the States, so >I'm not bashing it from afar, but I think this culture has become one of >power, pure and simple and that affects the music. And, when it comes >down to it, guitars are more powerful than electronics...or, so most >Americans believe.

Um I don't think so. Some of the most sonically powerful music I've heard is in fact from Europe or Japan. What about the German power noise groups? Or Japanese noise? These easily compare as far as raw power to any of the American guitar based bands, if not more. My gut feel is that pop culture is just about the same in any 1st world country. People like guitars because that's what they've learned to accept what music is made with. Anything that falls outside of the realm of pop is typically either ignored or scorned by the general public--either because people have closed minds or they're afraid of what their peers will think of them. -Jeremy users.owt.com/conflux

Brian Gause wrote:

quoted 16 lines It's because the entire industry in america has been pushing guitar music

> > It's because the entire industry in america has been pushing guitar music > > since the entire industry began. > > > > and everybody likes guitar music, and for electronic music to even consider > > selling well in here, it's got to have guitars in it, and to some respect > > resemble the music that's already being made here.. > > > > that's what I think it is, just pure commercialist BS. > > Consider also that in the US, bigger is better. This applies to guitars just as it applies to cars (Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, etc), raw power is bigger and better than something more subtle, like the keyboard or synth is considered to be. And as far as that goes, consider what keyboard-based bands have REALLY worked over here lately. Prodigy, The Chemicals, Propellerheads (who are on their way, at least), and a bit of Orbital. These are electronic acts with a bigger, more raw sound (admittedly, with Orbital, only at times). Big beat and drum & bass are popular here because they remind Americans of heavy metal and rock 'n' roll and all that is bass-y about our music. Stuff like St. Etienne or Air (as representative electronic pop music) won't make it because they're not raw, they're fluff. > > And, of course, they're not fluff, but the United States has never been about subtle, refined taste. The States are about BIGGER, BETTER and BADDER than YOU. > > Sure, the culture of the US is about freedom and opportunity, but deep down, it's supported by a strong foundation of power and force and, I think, the culture is infused by this. This is something that underlies our politics, our philosophy and our culture. I live in the States, so I'm not bashing it from afar, but I think this culture has become one of power, pure and simple and that affects the music. And, when it comes down to it, guitars are more powerful than electronics...or, so most Americans believe. > > ---brian

i really dont want to lengthen this thread, but the "bigger is better" theory surely misses the smooth r+b, pop stuff which has dominated the charts in the us since the downfall of the seattle scene. rock is in a lull right now, and although i agree in part with the aggression theory, it has taken new forms from the straight ahead "axe attack" that many of us might conjure up when thinking of rock. idm content- i have been digging the koln kompakt comp. lately, is the studio 1 comp. in a similar vein? there seems to be some cologne corssover no? cl

Ernesto Ikerd wrote:

quoted 2 lines I dunno about power, but I think Americans cant listen to anything that

> I dunno about power, but I think Americans cant listen to anything that > doesnt have lyrics.

possibly, but my take on it is that the record industry has convinced all the people that deal with it that nobody can sell anything without lyrics. Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Plan: Eat right, exercise regularly, die anyway.

Richard B wrote:

quoted 3 lines "Rock Critics" love to 'analize' lyrics. That's why most of them

> "Rock Critics" love to 'analize' lyrics. That's why most of them are at a > loss when it comes to techno..they don't know what to say when there are no > words.

one of my favorite brian eno stories: when asked by an interviewer, "what do the words mean?" eno shot back with "what do the chords mean?" -- Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Plan: Eat right, exercise regularly, die anyway.

quoted 6 lines Garbage 2.0 (rock-techno/w 303s), and Crystal Method. The "trip like I

> Garbage 2.0 (rock-techno/w 303s), and Crystal Method. The "trip like I > do" song is huge here - That is, the Filter version - WITH WORDS.. > Everybody wants to either "trip like I do" or "smack" their "bitch up" > cuz those are the worded mantras that people can vocalize, and the > electronic components are just there to spice up the rock guitars. keep > in mind this is less true in Detroit, NewYork or LA,

not to sound snobby, but I think we're a minority here in LA. Most techno you hear in clubs or a majority of raves even is quite commercial sounding. That gaddang trance shit seems like it will never go away. Ocassionally we have some killer shit thrown by the local IDM-heads. Recently a thing called Signal to Noise. Gonzi has put together a few things in the past, and KUCI does some ocassional stuff too, but in general the masses here in the LA fit the guitar based description IMO g

There will be another OC IDM-friendly event on July 31st, the release party for Loraine. It'll be at the Meta Gallery like the Robert Rich Show, and this time the line-up should be an interesting mix... On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Keri&marcel wrote:

quoted 8 lines not to sound snobby, but I think we're a minority here in LA. Most

> not to sound snobby, but I think we're a minority here in LA. Most > techno you hear in clubs or a majority of raves even is quite > commercial sounding. That gaddang trance shit seems like it will never > go away. Ocassionally we have some killer shit thrown by the local > IDM-heads. Recently a thing called Signal to Noise. Gonzi has put > together a few things in the past, and KUCI does some ocassional stuff > too, but in general the masses here in the LA fit the guitar based > description IMO

-Daniel 9-5SuperSpy@kuci.org ============================================================================== Listen to "Space Disco for Fish Tacos", KUCI 88.9fm Wednesdays 8-10pm New Space Disco For Fish Tacos web site: http://www.kuci.org/~dbremmer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "We're not talking about music. Fuck music, this is Taco Mesa... Music is just something we do until we get hungry and can go back to Taco Mesa" -Alex Graham ==============================================================================

quoted 4 lines Ernesto Ikerd wrote:

>Ernesto Ikerd wrote: >> I dunno about power, but I think Americans cant listen to anything that >> doesnt have lyrics. >

"Rock Critics" love to 'analize' lyrics. That's why most of them are at a loss when it comes to techno..they don't know what to say when there are no words.

quoted 3 lines "Rock Critics" love to 'analize' lyrics. That's why most of them

> "Rock Critics" love to 'analize' lyrics. That's why most of them are at a > loss when it comes to techno..they don't know what to say when there are no > words.

tell me about it. i picked up (but didn't purchase) rolling stone the other day just to browse through it. the review of the ninja tune comp (funkungfusion) made me laugh out loud...the few times they've reviewed ninja tune releases, they spend half of the 100 words talking about coldcut and how they go way back to the 'paid in full' remix. yes, it's a groundbreaking remix. yup, coldcut's influential. and great. they only have one track on funkungfusion. and most people who are going to pick it up already know all that. so the guy spends the rest of the review (rightfully) praising the comp, but then bitches right at the end about how it's not continually mixed. and then gives it three stars. sheesh. no mention of the funki porcini, vibert, or mr scruff tracks, no attempt to give an overall 'feel' of the discs. ah, american press. blah. rob

quoted 1 line (The only exception must involve some sort of inane dance step).

>(The only exception must involve some sort of inane dance step).

SHAME on your for bringing up the MACARENA!! ;) ernie Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17 Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircaft Systems Fort Worth, Texas

Ernie, I prefer list members keep little posts like this off list and in private. Many list members would appreciate it! Thanks! Aran On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Ernesto Ikerd wrote:

quoted 17 lines (The only exception must involve some sort of inane dance step).

> >(The only exception must involve some sort of inane dance step). > SHAME on your for bringing up the MACARENA!! > > > ;) > > > ernie > > > Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 > Company Graphics, Dept 17 > Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircaft Systems > Fort Worth, Texas > > >

Ack, sorry that was not supposed to be CC to the list. :-) Anyhow, this is a reminder too that posts to IDM with HTML attachments will not be posted to the list. I try and foward back to the sender the offending posts and ask they be sent w/o HTML in them. Over and out, amp On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Aran M. Parillo wrote:

quoted 30 lines Ernie,

> Ernie, > > I prefer list members keep little posts like this off list and in private. > Many list members would appreciate it! > > Thanks! > > Aran > > On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Ernesto Ikerd wrote: > > > >(The only exception must involve some sort of inane dance step). > > SHAME on your for bringing up the MACARENA!! > > > > > > ;) > > > > > > ernie > > > > > > Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 > > Company Graphics, Dept 17 > > Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircaft Systems > > Fort Worth, Texas > > > > > > > >

i just freaked myself out because i'm listening to tortoise's 'millions now living' and hit that point about 14 minutes into 'djed' where the track sounds like it's coming apart. great stuff, except it sounds uncannily like an old tape deck i had when it decided to chew up tapes. so just to make this an actual idm post, anyone got any funny stories bout mistaking sounds for stuff in life? i know the first few times i played the richard d. james album i was looking around to see if i had somehow turned on my modem. back to the usual, rob

On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, the artist formerly known as salvador dali wrote:

quoted 4 lines so just to make this an actual idm post, anyone got any funny stories bout

> so just to make this an actual idm post, anyone got any funny stories bout > mistaking sounds for stuff in life? i know the first few times i played > the richard d. james album i was looking around to see if i had somehow > turned on my modem.

the worst are the ones that sound like phones or doorbells. there's an old front242 record i've been listening to for around a decade now that still gets me on both counts... %) * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com #### we decide what's wrong or right, we'd rather lose than fight/we're going down/without us you don't get no kicks, without us you do not exist/we are going down

quoted 4 lines On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, the artist formerly known as salvador dali wrote:

>On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, the artist formerly known as salvador dali wrote: > >> so just to make this an actual idm post, anyone got any funny stories bout >> mistaking sounds for stuff in life?

Yes, the Orb's "Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld". Had it cranked and I was in the other room. Suddenly, I thought a jet fighter plane was coming through the window. 3

On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, the artist formerly known as salvador dali wrote:

quoted 4 lines so just to make this an actual idm post, anyone got any funny stories bout

> so just to make this an actual idm post, anyone got any funny stories bout > mistaking sounds for stuff in life? i know the first few times i played > the richard d. james album i was looking around to see if i had somehow > turned on my modem.

Any time I sleep listening to music, particularly Biosphere, I think people are breaking into my apartment. But then, I could just be insane. -- greyrose@nervosa.sf.ca.us http://www.extortion.com "Scribble thoughts flowing freely from the mind, sing in good voice, keep the beat and, above all, accept a glass of wine when it is pressed upon you." - Yoshida Kenko, Essay in Idleness, 1340