IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 10 lines On 05/19/98 20:16:56 thatcat wrote:

> >On 05/19/98 20:16:56 thatcat wrote: > >>it is far easier to record a keyboard part into a sequencer than to >>step-enter or >otherwise program the notes. >>now, i'm not saying that ae are recording everything live at once, obviously >>they >are recording many tracks of things into the sequencer and editing. >>but unless ae >are doing something far different (and far more tedious) than >>other musicians, it >all starts with playing live keyboard parts into the >>sequencer.

I find these statements a gross generalisation. I have no idea how Autechre make music but I personally program 80% and play 20%. I find it much easier to program drum and bass parts than play them. Only once I had a rhythmic and melodic framework would I start "jamming" over the top. I find that when I'm programming I tend to be more experimental whereas when I "jam" for ideas I tend to fall into the same patterns. I certainly don't find programming tedious (maybe its because I work as a computer programmer). I use a programming language to make my task easier and am able to generate things I could never play. I get offended by people that think music is somehow worth less if it is entirely programmed. At the end of the day all that should matter is what it sounds like. What about other musicians on the list, how do you make music? I wrote this reply because I wouldn't want anyone on the list who was contemplating making music thinking they had to be able to play keyboards to do anything worthwhile. Steve ======================================================== Standard disclaimer: GESB accepts no responsibility for the contents nor the validity of this message. ========================================================

At 1:04 PM +0800 5/20/98, you wrote:

quoted 4 lines I get offended by people that think music is somehow worth less if it is

>I get offended by people that think music is somehow worth less if it is >entirely programmed. At the end of the day all that should matter is >what it sounds like. >

Certainly debatable. I certainly evaluate music both by the end result and the process of creation. In my view, the process is part of the finished work - potentially increasing or decreasing the appreciation of the final product. If I found out that the Rachmaninov concerto to which I was listening was in fact sequenced, it would change my perception for the worse. Then again, if I found out that a supposedly algorithmic piece of music was in fact improvised live or composed fully on paper, that would also change my perception. For the same reason, an original and a forgery of an artwork are valued differently even if the final aesthetic products are indistinguishable. 3

On Wed, 20 May 1998, Zenon M. Feszczak wrote:

quoted 2 lines If I found out that the Rachmaninov concerto to which I was listening was

> If I found out that the Rachmaninov concerto to which I was listening was > in fact sequenced, it would change my perception for the worse.

Why? I would think that the evidence of one's own ears should be the deciding factor. Though that might be a bad example. A nice grand piano under the hands of a really good musician has continuous, fractally complex shadings of expression, beyond (in my opinion) ANY recording medium. My father is a symphony conductor, and I've heard people like Loren Hollander, Leonard Pennario, and George Shearing from 10 feet away on my mom's kickass Steinway. You had to be there. Not dance music, but amazing stuff regardless.

quoted 4 lines Then again, if I found out that a supposedly algorithmic piece of music was

> Then again, if I found out that a supposedly algorithmic piece of music was > in fact improvised live or composed fully on paper, that would also change > my perception. >

Even stuff written by hand on paper is algorithmic. Computers are just there to make it easier to automatically generate lame shit.

quoted 3 lines For the same reason, an original and a forgery of an artwork are valued

> For the same reason, an original and a forgery of an artwork are valued > differently even if the final aesthetic products are indistinguishable. >

Read "The Recognitions" by William Gaddis and get back to me. While this is perhaps a true statement where the value is monetary, for me it's very much debatable where the value is artistic. Most art forgery is caught out because it's fundamentally not as good as the original in the eyes of discerning viewers. I've no doubt that there are forgers over the years that have been so good that we don't in fact know whether all our favorite paintings are real or forged. It all goes back to Mahayana Buddhism. Everything you can perceive is illusion.

On Wed, 20 May 1998 13:04:28 +0800, you wrote:

quoted 1 line What about other musicians on the list, how do you make music?

>What about other musicians on the list, how do you make music?

At the moment I'm going through a phase of whacking Roland JV-1080 drum maps through distortion and overdrive, then routing them through the Korg Prophecy's appregiator at a tempo slightly out of synch with Cubase's bpm. I'll mess around the quantise and then physically move everything about to create some exotic, crunchy rhythms. I may fire up the Akai S950, pull a drum loop off a disk at random, resample it down to a ridiculously low rate and then have it sitting under the JV loops. I'm also taking advantage of my Korg M1's corrupted data card, which has scrambled loads of stored sounds, resulting in some very weird noises which I wouldn't be able to get just by programming. I'll then stick down some ambient pads with the JV-1080, routing different effects through them to contrast with the crunchy drums, then use the Prophecy for a main lead, or something. Result: a sort-of jazzed up, melodic Autechre. I hope to be putting up and MP3 of my next EP onto a website -- free of charge, naturally. /\/)ark

Stephen Oldmeadow wrote:

quoted 35 lines On 05/19/98 20:16:56 thatcat wrote:

> > > > >On 05/19/98 20:16:56 thatcat wrote: > > > >>it is far easier to record a keyboard part into a sequencer than to > >>step-enter or >otherwise program the notes. > >>now, i'm not saying that ae are recording everything live at once, obviously > >>they >are recording many tracks of things into the sequencer and editing. > >>but unless ae >are doing something far different (and far more tedious) than > >>other musicians, it >all starts with playing live keyboard parts into the > >>sequencer. > > I find these statements a gross generalisation. I have no idea how > Autechre make music but I personally program 80% and play 20%. I find > it much easier to program drum and bass parts than play them. Only once > I had a rhythmic and melodic framework would I start "jamming" over the > top. > > I find that when I'm programming I tend to be more experimental whereas > when I "jam" for ideas I tend to fall into the same patterns. I > certainly don't find programming tedious (maybe its because I work as a > computer programmer). I use a programming language to make my task > easier and am able to generate things I could never play. > > I get offended by people that think music is somehow worth less if it is > entirely programmed. At the end of the day all that should matter is > what it sounds like. > > What about other musicians on the list, how do you make music? > > I wrote this reply because I wouldn't want anyone on the list who was > contemplating making music thinking they had to be able to play > keyboards to do anything worthwhile. > > Steve

I agree with you Steve. And some things can only be 'programmed', and not recorded into a sequencer. The whole idm-concept is partly based on tracks that can't be done 'live' - and I like that. But I think I'm stating the obvious here. And wether recorded, programmed, scanned (?), beamed (??) or by accident (!) - I think it doesn't matter. If people dig what they hear/play/do everything should be allowed ... P.

quoted 2 lines I'm probably the only idiot in the world who makes my electronicky type

> I'm probably the only idiot in the world who makes my electronicky type > music like this, but I use a plain old wav editor program. I record all

You are, in fact, not alone. Soundforge is my only piece of software or equpiment used for making music, aside from the microphone that goes into the computer. I sample everything through line in/mic/cd straight into the wav editor, then cut/paste edit, mix, match, etc... all in the wav editor. It DOES take a shit long time, and it took quite awhile to pioneer a good method, AND it takes up a crapload of space. On the other hand, having a visual representation of absoultely every part, section, sound, sample that goes into the song does provide for some versatility, as well, using only one piece of software(which can do almost anything that other software/hardware can do, given the time and knowledge of the program) allows for some focus, rather than having to record a sample, then load a sequencer, and trigger that sample, etc... But the main reason for my method is lack of money to buy other software(or not being able to locate good pirated programs other than the wav editor...shh! don't tell the software companies!). Anyways, that's my two cents. Ali Lalani "When injustice becomes law... Resistance becomes duty." Some montreal protesters

quoted 1 line What about other musicians on the list, how do you make music?

>What about other musicians on the list, how do you make music?

I play keyboards in a triphop/drum'n'bass band. There's also a guitar player, two violins, a cello, a double bass, a sax, two singers and a rapper. And we use a computer for the drums. I write the music, mostly with the guitar player. We usually start with a chord-sequence on keyboards or guitar. Once we have a general idea of what we want to do with it, I write some basic elements for the drums. Then we write the cello and the bass on top of the chords and then we add the violins (we record them using midi, and we print the sheet music for them) Sometimes we also record a sax, but mostly we let her improvise. Then I write the final drum tracks. I am a drummer myself, so I record some stuff by "drumming" on the keyboard. Then I quantize, edit and step record, as needed. Then we invite the singers and we let them try stuff on top of it until we have the right melodies. If the rythm's suitable, we let the rapper write some stuff too, and finally we rehearse the song with the complete band. We also try other methods, for example jamming with the band until there's something usefull, but we haven't got much result with that yet. --==v^v^v==-- Mathias Verraes ET.phone.home@ThePentagon.com Demi-Sick (live triphop & drum'n'bass) http://www.biosys.net/demisick demisick@biosys.net --==v^v^v==--

quoted 1 line What about other musicians on the list, how do you make music?

> What about other musicians on the list, how do you make music?

I'm probably the only idiot in the world who makes my electronicky type music like this, but I use a plain old wav editor program. I record all the sounds I want onto my 4-track (going back to the total ground level, like drums are usually from me playing my actual drum set), do whatever digital changes I want to do with them through the program, & then manually arrange them. First, I record myself either mouthing or beating out the rhythm. Then I paste that rhythm wav into one channel of a blank stereo wav, & in the other channel, I mix in the sounds I want to use so that they match up with the corresponding peaks in the rhythm wav, redoing & redoing the mix level until they are how I want them. Then I just string &/or layer all the sections together. Takes forever. I just got a good soundcard with MIDI stuff on it & I think I will get a keyboard & some sampling RAM this summer as that seems it may be a better approach. But just one note on techniques: I think I've made some delicious music with my method anyway, & it's all I could do, so that just goes to show you can make wonderful music any way, even if you don't have ANY of the equipment you're supposed to have. Marc Poirier