IDM Mailing Archive

At 9:50 AM 1/22/98, Philip Downey wrote:

quoted 12 lines You are putting Kraftwerk as inovative. That's like putting L.V. Bethowen

>>You are putting Kraftwerk as inovative. That's like putting L.V. Bethowen >>(i don't even know how to spell it) as inovative. OK Black Dog is in >>our century so it's allright. (but Kraftw..... come on). >>You are promoting grandparents on the list and young people like >>Simon Pykes who are the next generations of music makers, you >>put them as LATTER category. Woow gee, thanks. >> >>C'mon , swich ON. >> >> >>Rob's bro. >>

...snipping the parts where he bemoans the other guy's ignorance...

quoted 7 lines Kraftwerk then. Innovators. Definitely. Good. Yes. Tour de France is

> >Kraftwerk then. Innovators. Definitely. Good. Yes. Tour de France is >still a heart-stopper. Others on this list can comment better on them >than I could, so I'll leave that to them. But before Kraftwerk, there >wasn't anything recognizable as 'techno.' There was disco, prog rock, and >W. Carlos. Came outta nowhere, friend. Not just that, it was also good. >

...and falls right into the same trap! Before Kraftwerk, there was folk music, bachelor-pad exotica, Motown and the British Invasion. Rock'n'Roll as the beast it was to become was only beginning to rear it's ugly head. Prog Rock (as in Yes, Genesis, King Crimson) didn't come about for another couple of years, and Disco didn't happen until, oh, 4 to 6 years (depending on how you count) after Kraftwerk's first album. Kraftwerk's original mission was to create a Germanic, or at least European alternative to all the blues- and folk-based music current at the time. And no, it didn't come out of nowhere. This gets mentioned over and over again on this list, but Kraftwerk was merely continuing on a path already well-trodden by Stockhausen, Satie and other classical pioneers, and was part of a large movement which also included Tangerine Dream, Can, Van Der Graaf Generator, and a bunch of other wonky stuff you sometimes find in used bins in the better hippie stores. It was only in the early 80's that Kraftwerk looked around them, and discovered that young black kids in the ghetto (horrors!) had become their true offspring, and incorporated these kids' bastardizations into their own music. Hence, Tour De France. Home is where the stereo is! [ p h i l i p e v a n s g r a p h i c d e s i g n ] a c i d d r o p @ e a r t h l i n k . n e t v 2 1 3 9 6 2 1 9 5 8 f 2 1 3 4 6 9 1 6 3 9

quoted 9 lines And no, it didn't come out of nowhere. This gets mentioned over and over

> And no, it didn't come out of nowhere. This gets mentioned over and over > again on this list, but Kraftwerk was merely continuing on a path already > well-trodden by Stockhausen, Satie and other classical pioneers, and was > part of a large movement which also included Tangerine Dream, Can, Van Der > Graaf Generator, and a bunch of other wonky stuff you sometimes find in > used bins in the better hippie stores. It was only in the early 80's that > Kraftwerk looked around them, and discovered that young black kids in the > ghetto (horrors!) had become their true offspring, and incorporated these > kids' bastardizations into their own music. Hence, Tour De France.

Harsh! I don't think TdF is staggeringly different from the other stuff that KW was doing a few years earlier and I don't really hear the bastardizations you speak of. It's been said (forgot where) that KW were the grandaddies of *techno* and that Klaus Schulze was that of trance. I think the distinction is a bit sticky, but it's certainly fair to say that there wasn't anything that *sounded* even remotely like techno before KW came on the scene with their mid-70s records. The similarities with Stockhausen et al. (which are questionable to start with; the fact that KW were inspired by Stocky does not really mean that they shared the same aesthetic) end at best at the conceptual level. Ashok

quoted 6 lines Home is where the stereo is!

> > Home is where the stereo is! > > [ p h i l i p e v a n s g r a p h i c d e s i g n ] > a c i d d r o p @ e a r t h l i n k . n e t > v 2 1 3 9 6 2 1 9 5 8 f 2 1 3 4 6 9 1 6 3 9

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Philip Evans wrote:

quoted 8 lines Before Kraftwerk, there was folk music, bachelor-pad exotica, Motown and

> Before Kraftwerk, there was folk music, bachelor-pad exotica, Motown and > the British Invasion. Rock'n'Roll as the beast it was to become was only > beginning to rear it's ugly head. Prog Rock (as in Yes, Genesis, King > Crimson) didn't come about for another couple of years, and Disco didn't > happen until, oh, 4 to 6 years (depending on how you count) after > Kraftwerk's first album. Kraftwerk's original mission was to create a > Germanic, or at least European alternative to all the blues- and folk-based > music current at the time.

Prog Rock reared its ugly head in 1969. Tone Float came after that, though for all practical purposes, the 1st Kraftwerk album with any market impact was Autobahn. For that matter, it was the 1st Kraftwerk album to feature synths in a big way. (Remember when Ralf & Florian were mostly guitar & flute, & looked like hippies?)

quoted 9 lines And no, it didn't come out of nowhere. This gets mentioned over and over

> And no, it didn't come out of nowhere. This gets mentioned over and over > again on this list, but Kraftwerk was merely continuing on a path already > well-trodden by Stockhausen, Satie and other classical pioneers, and was > part of a large movement which also included Tangerine Dream, Can, Van Der > Graaf Generator, and a bunch of other wonky stuff you sometimes find in > used bins in the better hippie stores. It was only in the early 80's that > Kraftwerk looked around them, and discovered that young black kids in the > ghetto (horrors!) had become their true offspring, and incorporated these > kids' bastardizations into their own music. Hence, Tour De France.

Can you say "Don't Stop Planet Rock"? Also, The Kraftwerk influence on the Holy Trinity of Detroit (Atkins, May, Saunderson) cannot be understated. Cybotron reeks of Kraftwerk. "Infoworld" by M500 is the best Kraftwerk song not by Kraftwerk. Che

In message <v02120d00b0ed30496d07@[207.217.3.114]>, Philip Evans <aciddrop@earthlink.net> writes

quoted 4 lines used bins in the better hippie stores. It was only in the early 80's that

>used bins in the better hippie stores. It was only in the early 80's that >Kraftwerk looked around them, and discovered that young black kids in the >ghetto (horrors!) had become their true offspring, and incorporated these >kids' bastardizations into their own music. Hence, Tour De France.

I remember reading in an magazine interview with one of the guys from Kraftwerk a few years ago where he said that he arrived in a club somewhere in america (can't remember where) and they were playing his track, "metal on metal" (i think it was that track, my memories a bit vague here) but it was only a short 3 or 4 minute track and after a while he realised it'd been going on for about 12 minutes now...which is when he found out about DJs doing beat matching with two copies of the same record, and repeating bits over and over again. That may have been when they found out about the whole scene that'd sprung from their music. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/