IDM Mailing Archive

1997-10-06 14:51Ross VitaleThis may be a little off topic but it's something I began to ponder the other day. I was i

From:: Ross Vitale <rvitale@phoenix.marymount.edu>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:51:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:: (idm) Used CD's & Promo's

This may be a little off topic but it's something I began to ponder the other day. I was in a "Used CD" store the recently and happened upon "Plug - Drum & Bass for Papa" (Nothing double CD release). Here's the scenario, it's a clearly labeled "promo" with some words to the effect of , "This is the owned by the said label and it is against the law to sell it...". They're asking $13.99 for and I'm thinking that's crazy, first of all it's promo(ie they shouldn't be selling) and second of all it's a domestic release that could easily be picked up for nearly the same price new, so I haggle them down to $8.99(bonus for me). I guess my question's are is it truly illegal for a "Used CD" store to sell promo's as opposed to "cutouts" or previously owned CD's? Here's the thing I've been buying promo's for years from used shops so as far as I'm concerned I'm getting a pretty good deal but on the other hand is the artist/label getting screwed by this. Oh yeah, for point of reference I'm in the U.S.A. Ross

1997-10-06 14:59Colin Cahill______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject:

From:: Colin Cahill <Colin_Cahill@air-water.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>, Ross Vitale <rvitale@phoenix.marymount.edu>
Date:: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:59:09 -0400
Subject:: Re: (idm) Used CD's & Promo's

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: (idm) Used CD's & Promo's Author: Ross Vitale <rvitale@phoenix.marymount.edu> at AWT_INTERNET_PO Date: 10/6/97 10:51 AM This may be a little off topic but it's something I began to ponder the other day. I was in a "Used CD" store the recently and happened upon "Plug - Drum & Bass for Papa" (Nothing double CD release). Here's the scenario, it's a clearly labeled "promo" with some words to the effect of , "This is the owned by the said label and it is against the law to sell it...". They're asking $13.99 for and I'm thinking that's crazy, first of all it's promo(ie they shouldn't be selling) and second of all it's a domestic release that could easily be picked up for nearly the same price new, so I haggle them down to $8.99(bonus for me). I guess my question's are is it truly illegal for a "Used CD" store to sell promo's as opposed to "cutouts" or previously owned CD's? Here's the thing I've been buying promo's for years from used shops so as far as I'm concerned I'm getting a pretty good deal but on the other hand is the artist/label getting screwed by this. Oh yeah, for point of reference I'm in the U.S.A. Personally, I really don't worry about this. I frequently find promos at my local used cd store. I assume they get them via trades/seller and simply put them on their shelves. I know people who have won promos via radio programs and have traded them in later. There are plenty of other things to worry about. Ross

1997-10-06 15:05Matt Mullenit's a clearly labeled "promo" with some words to the effect of >, "This is the owned by t

From:: Matt Mullen <mcfly@tcp.co.uk>
To:: Ross Vitale <rvitale@phoenix.marymount.edu>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 16:05:03 +0100
Subject:: Re: (idm) Used CD's & Promo's

it's a clearly labeled "promo" with some words to the effect of

quoted 1 line , "This is the owned by the said label and it is against the law to sell

>, "This is the owned by the said label and it is against the law to sell

quoted 1 line it...".

>it...".

snip.... I guess my question's

quoted 1 line are is it truly illegal for a "Used CD" store to sell promo's as opposed

>are is it truly illegal for a "Used CD" store to sell promo's as opposed

quoted 1 line to "cutouts" or previously owned CD's? Here's the thing I've been

>to "cutouts" or previously owned CD's? Here's the thing I've been buying

quoted 1 line promo's for years from used shops so as far as I'm concerned I'm getting a

>promo's for years from used shops so as far as I'm concerned I'm getting a

quoted 1 line pretty good deal but on the other hand is the artist/label getting screwed

>pretty good deal but on the other hand is the artist/label getting screwed

quoted 1 line by this. Oh yeah, for point of reference I'm in the U.S.A.

>by this. Oh yeah, for point of reference I'm in the U.S.A.

Ross, this kind of depends on the original purpose of the promo. Speaking from a label point of view, when we send out promos, we are just trying to generate responses in advance of a full release, whether from a dj or shop. Once that release is in general, we don't care if the promos are sold on - indeed we're not too bothered if the promos are sold prior to general, as long as the desired effect is achieved. As far as the legal aspects go, the promos are generally 'given' to the parties involved and I guess that reselling them without the consent of the copywrite owner *does* breach that trust. The Secondhand shop would be *very* unfortunate to be caught out, it would only happen if the copywrite owner specifically believed that the resale was in some was effecting the sale of the general, and as far as I am concerned, I cannot remember that happening. <bigger>Matt Mullen hero no7 recording collective http://augustan.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mcfly</bigger>

1997-10-06 17:11Lazlo Nibble> I guess my question's are is it truly illegal for a "Used CD" store to sell > promo's as

From:: Lazlo Nibble <lazlo@swcp.com>
To:: Intelligent Dance Music <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:11:53 -0600 (MDT)
Subject:: (idm) Used CD's & Promo's

quoted 5 lines I guess my question's are is it truly illegal for a "Used CD" store to sell

> I guess my question's are is it truly illegal for a "Used CD" store to sell > promo's as opposed to "cutouts" or previously owned CD's? Here's the thing > I've been buying promo's for years from used shops so as far as I'm > concerned I'm getting a pretty good deal but on the other hand is the > artist/label getting screwed by this.

There's no law against selling promos; the warning labels you'll often see on them are meant to scare people off but have no legal weight. Labels write off the costs of doing promos and are well aware that many/most find their way into the retail chain, either directly (label ships promos to store, which sells them) or indirectly (label ships promos to radio station/newspaper/etc., intern/music editor/reviewer acquires/steals them and sells them to store for beer money). If labels wanted to stop the sale of promos they'd need to have specific contractual agreements with the people they send them to, which is just too much of a hassle for anyone involved to bother. As far as artists are concerned: labels don't pay royalities on promo copies, so when you buy a promo you're denying the artists some (usually very small) amount of money. I doubt that most of them care, really -- they're typically getting screwed in much more interesting ways by their labels anyway. :-) -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ::: OnNow: Gold-stamped promo copy of Jimmy Scott's album "Dream"

Re: (idm) Used CD's & Promo's