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Re: (idm) "Seven Notes"

3 messages · 2 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
1997-07-13 18:34Chris.Hilker (idm) "Seven Notes"
└─ 1997-07-13 19:20Jeff Bailey Re: (idm) "Seven Notes"
└─ 1997-07-13 23:13Chris.Hilker Re: (idm) "Seven Notes"
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1997-07-13 18:34Chris.HilkerIf you really believe this, by all means put it to the test: write, record, and distribute
From:
Chris.Hilker
To:
Ironic Dance Music
Date:
Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:34:12 -0700
Subject:
(idm) "Seven Notes"
permalink · <l03010d00afeecea0406f@[206.80.181.151]>
If you really believe this, by all means put it to the test: write, record, and distribute a song that uses the refrain from "She Loves You," but change the lyrics to, I don't know, "I want her, whoa, whoa, whoa." Once the lawsuits have been filed, go before the judge in open court and state your defense: "Your honor, it's only six notes, and I read on the internet that you can copy seven notes and they can't sue you." I expect that between Michael Jackson and Sony's lawyers, Paul McCartney's lawyers, and Yoko Ono's lawyers, you'll probably walk out of the courtroom missing a few fingers. Any infringement on protected work is actionable. Standard exceptions/ disclaimers apply. C. -- Chris.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.org) "One being, that talking about things, while not exactly causing them to happen, does cause something,-- which is almost the same, tho' not quite. Unless it is possible to smoke a Potatoe."
1997-07-13 19:20Jeff Bailey>If you really believe this, by all means put it to the test: write, >record, and distribu
From:
Jeff Bailey
To:
Date:
Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:20:32 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) "Seven Notes"
Reply to:
(idm) "Seven Notes"
permalink · <3.0.3.32.19970713122032.007b4b40@earthlink.net>
quoted 1 line If you really believe this, by all means put it to the test: write,>If you really believe this, by all means put it to the test: write,
quoted 1 line record, and distribute a song that uses the refrain from "She Loves>record, and distribute a song that uses the refrain from "She Loves
quoted 1 line You," but change the lyrics to, I don't know, "I want her, whoa, whoa,>You," but change the lyrics to, I don't know, "I want her, whoa, whoa,
quoted 1 line whoa." Once the lawsuits have been filed, go before the judge in open>whoa." Once the lawsuits have been filed, go before the judge in open
quoted 1 line court and state your defense: "Your honor, it's only six notes, and>court and state your defense: "Your honor, it's only six notes, and
quoted 1 line I read on the internet that you can copy seven notes and they can't sue>I read on the internet that you can copy seven notes and they can't sue
quoted 1 line you." I expect that between Michael Jackson and Sony's lawyers, Paul>you." I expect that between Michael Jackson and Sony's lawyers, Paul
quoted 1 line McCartney's lawyers, and Yoko Ono's lawyers, you'll probably walk out>McCartney's lawyers, and Yoko Ono's lawyers, you'll probably walk out
quoted 1 line of the courtroom missing a few fingers.>of the courtroom missing a few fingers.
quoted 1 line>
quoted 1 line Any infringement on protected work is actionable. Standard exceptions/>Any infringement on protected work is actionable. Standard exceptions/
quoted 1 line disclaimers apply.>disclaimers apply.
quoted 1 line>
quoted 1 line C.>C.
Maybe i was mistaken or misleading when refering to the "7 notes" issue. **Begin paste of fair use test** -The third factor looks at the amount and substantiality of the copying in -relation to the work as a whole. However, the critical -determination is whether the quality and value of the materials used are -reasonable in relation to the purpose of copying. This is -not a pure ratio test in that using a whole work may be fair use in some -circumstances, whereas using a tiny fraction of a work -not qualify for fair use in other circumstances. -Therefore, the quantity, as well as the quality and importance, of the copied -material must be considered. Some Justices have -looked to see that "no more was taken than was necessary" to achieve the -purpose for which the materials were copied **End of paste** I guess this is not exactly the information I was looking for but let me explain it a tiny bit from what I have been informed of... You are very correct assuming that you would get sued like there was no tomorrow from Sony etc etc. 7 notes copied a single time or maybe even looped twice is not considered as being in excess of what one could call Fair Use of the work. True if you nearly duplicate the entire song say for 1 or 2 notes per loop then of course you will get sued. Now for a pathetic explaination about why 7 notes and not 8........ (close your eyes if ignorance bothers you) .......I was told by one who works in the law division of a major record label (who shall remain nameless) that 7 notes is considered coincidence as long as it is not a "recognizable" ripoff such as is notorious among many rap artists (amongst the most famous is vanilla ice in the "Under Pressure" copyright issue). One cannot directly sample 8 notes being that it can be considered a stand alone product of the artists mind and therefore falls directly under the same issue as copyrighting the entire song. He also stated the very same thing as Chris stated. If you have absolutely any doubt in your mind as to whether you are infringing upon the copyright of another musician, ask for permission and credit the artist. (okay you can open them eyes again) And on a personal note. If one is really so overly concerned about ripping off another artist that all this is relevant, they are probably in need of a better imagination instead of a better lawyer. Hope this helps to explain my position as stands from the information I have received from various sources. And yes I'm a wordy bastard :)...... ......elipses can be your friend...... TinOmen http://www.thefaktory.com tinoment@thefaktory.com "<color><param>8080,0000,8080</param>All good people are asleep and dreaming</color>"
1997-07-13 23:13Chris.Hilker>**Begin paste of fair use test** > >-The third factor looks at the amount and substantial
From:
Chris.Hilker
To:
Ironic Dance Music
Date:
Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:13:00 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) "Seven Notes"
Reply to:
Re: (idm) "Seven Notes"
permalink · <l03010d01afef0c0c3a5d@[206.80.181.159]>
quoted 11 lines **Begin paste of fair use test**>**Begin paste of fair use test** > >-The third factor looks at the amount and substantiality of the copying in -relation to the work as a whole. However, the critical >-determination is whether the quality and value of the materials used are -reasonable in relation to the purpose of copying. This is >-not a pure ratio test in that using a whole work may be fair use in some -circumstances, whereas using a tiny fraction of a work >-not qualify for fair use in other circumstances. > >-Therefore, the quantity, as well as the quality and importance, of the copied -material must be considered. Some Justices have >-looked to see that "no more was taken than was necessary" to achieve the -purpose for which the materials were copied > >**End of paste**
It looks like you're quoting someone's commentary on one of the considerations in determining whether a given use is, in fact, fair use, which leaves out some crucial parts of the definition of fair use. Here's the relevant section from the Copyright Act of 1976. As far as I know this section hasn't been significantly amended since the book I'm quoting from was published. 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use. Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include-- (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors. Significantly, the book I quoted this from immediately points out: Note that, despite musician's folklore, there's nothing like 'up to 8 notes is OK,' or 'up to 3 seconds is OK,' only very general rules. It's also worth noting that if you try to claim fair use and you can't demonstrate that your use was "for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching," etc., you'll be laughed out of court (although there are those who would argue that sampling someone else's record is an intrinsically critical act). Standard disclaimers apply. C. -- Chris.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.org) "One being, that talking about things, while not exactly causing them to happen, does cause something,-- which is almost the same, tho' not quite. Unless it is possible to smoke a Potatoe."