IDM Mailing Archive

1997-02-05 04:11Eric AppeltOn Sun, 4 Feb 1997 Nathanel Karl Harrison wrote: >The song is just catchy enough that thos

From:: Eric Appelt <reagan@telalink.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:11:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject:: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On Sun, 4 Feb 1997 Nathanel Karl Harrison wrote:

quoted 4 lines The song is just catchy enough that those unfamiliar with IDM, Drum n'bass

>The song is just catchy enough that those unfamiliar with IDM, Drum n'bass >etc will snatch it up as the 'new sound', propelling our music further >into the limelight when you and I both know it's the same schlock that TR >put out years ago...

Yea, I know what you mean. I overheard a few of my friends talking about perfect drug and how the sound was so new and interesting. What scares me is that these people are creative, interesting people who just don't happen to be into idm/ambient/techno/ect music yet. I thought I would brood about how everything was going to be screwed up. But then I realized...I have to hook these people up! No sense waiting for the media to exploit the "safest", most poppish of the IDM artists...hell, from now on I am going to make sure to reccomend to every person I see getting into IDM the artists who pushed and are pushing the limits. People are really going to like this electronic music. I remember when I first got into it, even the worst crap would blow my mind. Sometimes I still have a hard time separating the good from the bad. How can someone who has never heard breakbeat or d&b tell if a songwriter is drawing from cliches? Help the newcomers! -Reagan

1997-02-06 03:58Microdot in the AquabahnOn Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Eric Appelt wrote: > On Sun, 4 Feb 1997 Nathanel Karl Harrison wrote:

From:: Microdot in the Aquabahn <solenoid@thetics.europa.com>
To:: Eric Appelt <reagan@telalink.net>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:58:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.
Reply to:: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Eric Appelt wrote:

quoted 1 line On Sun, 4 Feb 1997 Nathanel Karl Harrison wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Feb 1997 Nathanel Karl Harrison wrote:

quoted 2 lines have a hard time separating the good from the bad. How can someone who has

> have a hard time separating the good from the bad. How can someone who has > never heard breakbeat or d&b tell if a songwriter is drawing from cliches?

Well, it doesn't matter if something is a cliche to some bunch of oldtimers, it is still new to them. They are lucky in that regard, but unlucky that they are develop their interest after so much has already passed into obscurity and may be hard to find later. Yet it's strange to see releases that were in multiple copies in a store only 3 years ago going for so much in that auction we just saw, while other genres don't seem to appreciate in value that quickly (noise, experimental, jazz) solenoid@europa.com <------+

1997-02-07 00:45Mark KolmarOn Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Microdot in the Aquabahn wrote: > passed into obscurity and may be har

From:: Mark Kolmar <mkolmar@xnet.com>
To:: Microdot in the Aquabahn <solenoid@thetics.europa.com>
Cc:: Eric Appelt <reagan@telalink.net>, <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 18:45:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) "collector" prices (was Re: Nonsense)
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Microdot in the Aquabahn wrote:

quoted 4 lines passed into obscurity and may be hard to find later. Yet it's strange to

> passed into obscurity and may be hard to find later. Yet it's strange to > see releases that were in multiple copies in a store only 3 years ago > going for so much in that auction we just saw, while other genres don't > seem to appreciate in value that quickly (noise, experimental, jazz)

For the noise, experimental, and I'm sure much of the underground jazz scenes, the label may press 500 or 1000, but that pressing is likely to take longer to sell than the same number of dance/idm/etc. records. In other words, supply vs. demand. If supply is still available, sensible people will not pay a premium. --Mark

1997-02-05 07:05Ryan VisimaIn message <199702050411.WAA07707@eve.telalink.net> Eric Appelt writes: > Yea, I know what

From:: Ryan Visima <rvisima@199.166.230.69>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 02:05:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

In message <199702050411.WAA07707@eve.telalink.net> Eric Appelt writes:

quoted 6 lines Yea, I know what you mean. I overheard a few of my friends talking about

> Yea, I know what you mean. I overheard a few of my friends talking about > perfect drug and how the sound was so new and interesting. What scares me is > that these people are creative, interesting people who just don't happen to > be into idm/ambient/techno/ect music yet. I thought I would brood about how > everything was going to be screwed up. But then I realized...I have to hook > these people up!

Definitely. I got tired of my dumb-ass friends listening to their usual Nirvana/Green Day-type (crap) music a couple years ago, so I forced every single one of them to listen to Aphex Twin. (That was all I was really into at the time, but it was better than nothing.) Some liked it, some didn't. But I still feel that I single-handedly drove up the sales of the "Ventolin" EP and "...I Care". :) And all that came after someone else had forced ME to listen Aphex. :) +-------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Ryan Visima | richard d james: aphex twin | | rvisima@astral.magic.ca | http://www.magic.ca/~rvisima/aphex/ | +-------------------------+----------------+--------------------+ | nine inch nails: the art of self destruction |Performa 6320CD | | http://www.magic.ca/~rvisima/nin/ |48MB/1.2GB/4xCD | +----------------------------------------------+----------------+

1997-02-05 07:16JamesI'm sure many people on this list are well-known, at their workplace or lab or home or amo

From:: James <JSEO@us.oracle.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: 04 Feb 97 23:16:22 -0800
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

I'm sure many people on this list are well-known, at their workplace or lab or home or among friends, as the Person Who Listens To Weird Music. Or the Person Who Blows All Her/His Earnings On $25 Import CDs. ;) On now:: erm, Lush James Jung-Hoon Seo // Oracle New Media (415) 506-3829 // jseo@us.oracle.com Chewbacca. // Harrison Ford, on the Tonight Show, when asked who among his numerous co-stars was the best kisser

1997-02-05 20:41HillieOn 05-Feb-97, James scribbled something about Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc

From:: Hillie <buh@clark.net>
To:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:41:24 -0500
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On 05-Feb-97, James scribbled something about Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.:

quoted 3 lines I'm sure many people on this list are well-known, at their workplace or lab or

>I'm sure many people on this list are well-known, at their workplace or lab or >home or among friends, as the Person Who Listens To Weird Music. Or the Person >Who Blows All Her/His Earnings On $25 Import CDs. ;)

for me it's that, and ppl who say they can't believe that crap actually was published on a record. :I but more than being known as one who blows 25$ on imports (I bought one for $35 actually) I'm known as the person who blows 60$ on an old Aphex Twin record, which is only a vinyl, but ah well.. ;-) -- Hillie aka Aurafix / PHD ja DAMONES hillien kotisivu - http://www.clark.net/pub/buh/index.html phase distortion - http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~airou/phd/ easy internet services - http://huizen.dds.nl/~eis Do re mi fa so la ti.. Oh let's see if I can make it easier...

1997-02-05 08:49Matthew D. SmithOn Wednesday, 5 February, 1997 6:11 AM Eric Appelt wrote... To: idm@hyperreal.com Subject:

From:: Matthew D. Smith <a72928@chilloutroom.eskom.co.za>
To:: idm@hyperreal.com <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:49:50 -0000
Subject:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On Wednesday, 5 February, 1997 6:11 AM Eric Appelt wrote... To: idm@hyperreal.com Subject: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

quoted 4 lines People are really going to like this electronic music. I remember when I

> People are really going to like this electronic music. I remember when I > first got into it, even the worst crap would blow my mind. Sometimes I still > have a hard time separating the good from the bad. How can someone who has > never heard breakbeat or d&b tell if a songwriter is drawing from cliches?

quoted 1 line Help the newcomers!

> Help the newcomers!

Quite right here, think that we (who have been around) have the luxury of hindsight in that we are more in touch with the roots of IDM, techno et al. It pisses me off to hear people (incl. intelligent & creative types) fawn over a "new sound" when not only is it something that has become pastiche or cliched, but also totally mainstream. Education is the key. But you try and educate someone in 1992 about our music and no-one wants to know. Give it 2-3 years the f.king Chem Bro's stride onto the scene with total bullshite and everyones into the "new sound". Gimme a break(beat ;->). Thanks to the commercial scene, I've found that our music is more accessible than it was 3 years ago... Matthew D. Smith http://chilloutroom.eskom.co.za:8080/

1997-02-05 17:31Jon DrukmanOn 05-Feb-97 Matthew D. Smith wrote: >Give it 2-3 years the >f.king Chem Bro's stride onto

From:: Jon Drukman <jsd@gamespot.com>
To:: idm@hyperreal.com <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 09:31:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.
Reply to:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On 05-Feb-97 Matthew D. Smith wrote:

quoted 4 lines Give it 2-3 years the

>Give it 2-3 years the >f.king Chem Bro's stride onto the scene with total bullshite and everyones into >the "new sound". Gimme a break(beat ;->). Thanks to the commercial scene, I've >found that our music is more accessible than it was 3 years ago...

funny how just a year back people were falling over themselves saying how wonderful the chems were. now they've got a bit of popularity and it's all "they're so commercial, i always hated them." ignore the commercial scene. if you still want to hear unlistenable experimental music it's still being produced by the bucketful and you can still find it all the same places. Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- System Administrator SpotMedia Communications

1997-02-05 18:42Philip DowneyOn Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Jon Drukman wrote: > > On 05-Feb-97 Matthew D. Smith wrote: > >Give it

From:: Philip Downey <threnody@bu.edu>
To:: idm list <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:42:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.
Reply to:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Jon Drukman wrote:

quoted 11 lines On 05-Feb-97 Matthew D. Smith wrote:

> > On 05-Feb-97 Matthew D. Smith wrote: > >Give it 2-3 years the > >f.king Chem Bro's stride onto the scene with total bullshite and everyones into > >the "new sound". Gimme a break(beat ;->). Thanks to the commercial scene, I've > >found that our music is more accessible than it was 3 years ago... > > funny how just a year back people were falling over themselves saying how > wonderful the chems were. now they've got a bit of popularity and it's all > "they're so commercial, i always hated them." >

Word to the wise, and amen to that brother. Check out the idm archives from the summer of 95, and you will find reviews that re 90%positive towards the chemical brothers. At the time, they were new and fresh, and had a 'different' sound. Now they are taking this new sound to the masses, and having a great deal of success with it, which you can judge by looking at the amount of copycats around. As a journalist, (but not a music one), I can personally attest to how difficult it is to follow your 'beat', as it were. Mine happens to be science, and this requires me to read about 30 scientific journals each month, 3 or 4 newspapers each day, 20-40 magazines each month, and maybe a book or two. I'm not complaining at all, because I chose this for myself. But following music is just as hard. This is the *ducks* information era, and there's lots of it out there. I used to be ata radio station, and when two or three hundred cd's come in every mont, I was pleased if I could skip and scan through 20 of them. All the magazine and newspapers read each other, and compete for your dollars, so as soon as somebody has one, interesting, off-the-beaten path story, you can be sure the next editorial goes something like this, "Why don't we have an electronica story?" Do it now, we want for next week. Just try going from bush, pearl jam, and nirvana to covering all of electronica in a 3 days. Cut the (general news) journalists some slack. Every post I've seen clipped so far from a magazine has at least been factual, except for the occasional mis-categorization of artists. I've sort of got way off base here, but when I hear a single interesting thing, (be it a scientific study or an interesting song) a journalist's first inclination is to wonder what is behind it. I got into idm in this way, when around 91-92 I first heard didgeridoo on the radio, mixed in with all the other rave music that was around at that time. After that came LFO, and Orbital, and I never looked back. Now that elctronica is coming to popularity, lead by Tricky, the chems and underworld, it makes me wonder what I've been missing in the last 4 years, as other things have been happening. what am I supposed to do, ditch this list and start listening to...? Ah well, long semi-undirected rant. I'm sending it anyways, it's my birthday. Phil Downey np: bjork: bjest bjremixes

1997-02-05 20:30Kent WilliamsOn Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Jon Drukman wrote: > > On 05-Feb-97 Matthew D. Smith wrote: > >Give it

From:: Kent Williams <kent@inav.net>
To:: Jon Drukman <jsd@gamespot.com>
Cc:: idm@hyperreal.com <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:30:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.
Reply to:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Jon Drukman wrote:

quoted 11 lines On 05-Feb-97 Matthew D. Smith wrote:

I loved certain of their tracks -- I think a lot more people were hyped on the Chemicals when they had just a couple of 12" out with storming tracks. Most of what they've done since is either retreads of early tracks, or stuff that just doesn't grab the ear the same way. And we shan't be starting another "elitist vs popular" thread, right? --------------------------------------------------------------------- "i love the smell of new carpet. it makes me dizzy. just like when you fall in love." -- Mike Dvorkin Home Page, featuring Reagan on Black Velvet, the EMP Compilation CD, samples of my music, etc http://soli.inav.net/~kent/ Kent Williams kent@inav.net CADSI 2651 Crosspark Road Coralville IA 52241 (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3489 (fax)

1997-02-05 15:52Emanuel Borsboom>Definitely. I got tired of my dumb-ass friends listening to their usual >Nirvana/Green Da

From:: Emanuel Borsboom <manny@zerius.victoria.bc.ca>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:52:45 -0800
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

quoted 2 lines Definitely. I got tired of my dumb-ass friends listening to their usual

>Definitely. I got tired of my dumb-ass friends listening to their usual >Nirvana/Green Day-type (crap) music a couple years ago, so I forced every

single

quoted 4 lines one of them to listen to Aphex Twin. (That was all I was really into at the

>one of them to listen to Aphex Twin. (That was all I was really into at the >time, but it was better than nothing.) > >Some liked it, some didn't. But I still feel that I single-handedly drove

up the

quoted 3 lines sales of the "Ventolin" EP and "...I Care". :)

>sales of the "Ventolin" EP and "...I Care". :) > >And all that came after someone else had forced ME to listen Aphex. :)

I've been forcing my friends to listen to "my" music for years now, but it never really caught on until I played them Squarepusher - Feed me Weird Things a couple of days ago. This was the first time anyone asked me to play one of my CDs again. One of them e-mailed me saying he'd wants to buy some of this stuff, how much does it cost. While I'm here, Canadians might be interested in knowing that MuchMusic is playing a second installment of R.U.Receiving? at midnight eastern on feb 7. Hopefully this one will be better than the first. manny. OnNow: Autechre - Envane (which I highly recommend. every track is great). -- Why R Are Why / Are Y Are We?

1997-02-05 16:47khannan suntharamHi guys, I'm looking to trade the following CDs Alec Empire -Lmtd. Editions (preferably fo

From:: khannan suntharam <kxs28972@Bayou.UH.EDU>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:47:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject:: (idm) Looking to trade...
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

Hi guys, I'm looking to trade the following CDs Alec Empire -Lmtd. Editions (preferably for Generation Star Wars) u-ziq - Salsa with Mesquite Please reply via private e-mail. Thanks. khannan suntharam kxs28972@bayou.uh.edu

1997-02-05 17:29Zenon M. FeszczakAt 10:52 -0500 05.02.97, Emanuel Borsboom <manny@zerius.victoria.bc.ca> wrote: > >I've bee

From:: Zenon M. Feszczak <feszczak@sas.upenn.edu>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:29:10 -0500
Subject:: (idm) The Missionary Position
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

At 10:52 -0500 05.02.97, Emanuel Borsboom <manny@zerius.victoria.bc.ca> wrote:

quoted 3 lines I've been forcing my friends to listen to "my" music for years now, but it

> >I've been forcing my friends to listen to "my" music for years now, but it >never really caught on until...

I've also played missionary, attempting to convert pagans into idm/ambient/i-techno believers. The music which seems most successful for such evangelical purposes, in my experience, is the trance-oriented melodic stuff on Eye-Q, particularly the "Behind the Eye" comps, Cygnus' "HyperMetrical". The Cygnus record, in particular, converted one friend from the statement - "Oh, I can't stand all that boring techno ----" - to "Where can I get a copy?". Also records like the Ambient Dub and A.D. comps. Another friend, a former pure folk-rock type, recently ran up to me, rabid and frantic, with a copy of "Freezone 2" in hand, ranting "Have you heard this? Have you heard this? Amazing! Amazing!" He seemed to have forgotten, in his rampant enthusiasm, that I was the one who had recommended the record to him. He began playing the "Air" excerpt on the stereo repeatedly, and I nearly induced a stroke by telling the Born-Again IDMer that, in fact, this Namlook cut was only an excerpt from a full-length of the same name. I did not risk charges for involuntary homocide by mentioning the number, not to mention rarity, of actual FAX releases. 3

1997-02-05 17:40Erkki RautioJon Drukman wrote: > funny how just a year back people were falling over themselves saying

From:: Erkki Rautio <trerra@uta.fi>
To:: anAlFiXation <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:40:26 +0200 (EET)
Subject:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

Jon Drukman wrote:

quoted 3 lines funny how just a year back people were falling over themselves saying how

> funny how just a year back people were falling over themselves saying how > wonderful the chems were. now they've got a bit of popularity and it's all > "they're so commercial, i always hated them."

Heh, this reminds me of the incident when I dared to criticize our darling ChemBros ("the Monkees of techno", remember?) on this list about a year or two ago, and the hell Peter Wohelski of Astralwerks gave me for that ;) Where are the Emperor's clothes now? ekku the maintainer of pHinnWeb - everything u ever wanted to know about Finnish techno scene but were too afraid of the reindeer trerra@uta.fi | http://www.uta.fi/~trerra | http://www.sci.fi/~phinnweb things aren't too clear and the more i see things disappear momentarily

1997-02-05 17:59Greg EdenOn Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:40:26 +0200 (EET), you wrote: >Jon Drukman wrote: > >> funny how jus

From:: Greg Eden <greg@warp-net.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 17:59:00 GMT
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.
Reply to:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:40:26 +0200 (EET), you wrote:

quoted 10 lines Jon Drukman wrote:

>Jon Drukman wrote: > >> funny how just a year back people were falling over themselves saying how >> wonderful the chems were. now they've got a bit of popularity and it's all >> "they're so commercial, i always hated them." > >Heh, this reminds me of the incident when I dared to criticize our >darling ChemBros ("the Monkees of techno", remember?) on this list about >a year or two ago, and the hell Peter Wohelski of Astralwerks gave me for >that ;) Where are the Emperor's clothes now?

it's difficult to criticise the chem bros they have only released one record. g.

1997-02-06 21:56Dave WalkerOn Wed, Feb 5, 1997 3:30 PM, Kent Williams <mailto:kent@inav.net> wrote: : I loved certain

From:: Dave Walker <marmoset@mich.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: 6 Feb 97 16:56:41 -0500
Subject:: RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.

On Wed, Feb 5, 1997 3:30 PM, Kent Williams <mailto:kent@inav.net> wrote: : I loved certain of their tracks -- I think a lot more people were hyped : on the Chemicals when they had just a couple of 12" out with storming tracks. : Most of what they've done since is either retreads of early tracks, or : stuff that just doesn't grab the ear the same way. Definitely. I was quite taken with _14th Century Sky_ EP, unfortunately everything I've heard since has been the same ideas paired with ever more ham-handed execution. A little like AC/DC in that respect, I think... -d.w. on now: some severely messed up stuff generated by Thonk 1.0 ( http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/HyperArchive/Archive/gst/snd/thonk-10.hqx ).

RE: (idm) Re: Nonsense about NIN, Bowie, etc.