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From:
Ian Monroe
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:27:13 -0500
Subject:
RE: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Msg-Id:
<009d01c4c101$3101dbf0$0d0114ac@iansony>
In-Reply-To:
<2DE17786-2CAA-11D9-BED1-000502B18FAA@slackonomics.com>
Mbox:
idm.0411.gz
Now, see, this is what I'm talking about. The Cult of Mac - the Cult of Jobs. I use both Apple and PC machines, in a variety of capacities, and I've used every windows version since 3.1, every macOS version since 7.0, and a wide variety of *nix OS's. I currently support a mixed platform network that's about 70% PC, 20% mac, and about 10% Debian. The fact of the matter is that Nicholas pointed out valid problems with the Mac platform, and immediately the evangleical mac users rush to argue. I know, from personal experience, that there are large incompatabilities, particularly with pre-OSX macs, and other computers. There were huge network problems. The Appletalk protocol is one of the ugliest, least effiecient protocols around. There's even incompatabilites with file systems - Try using a PC to burn a CD of files that are stored on an HFS partition. Can't be done. There IS a premium for apple hardware - you're essentially paying for design. And while that may be fine for some people, I find it grossly inefficent. The "affordable" eMacs and entry level powerbooks you mention are so far back on the hardware curve as to be ridiculous. Your $999 powerbook is going to need to be replaced in 2 years, if you hope to use anything more computationally advanced that word processing and interweb. Your $999 commodity PC laptop has twice that life. And there are whole categories of problems that come up with Macs that simply have no solution, ever. I could name a litany of them that I've encountered personally, but I don't want to bore you any further than I have already. But here's the thing that gets me the most. 20% of the machines that I support are Macs, and they demand well over half of the support time. But every mac user I talk to tries to tell me Macs don't crash. Well, they do. All the time. Not as much with OSX, but as far as I'm concerned, it's too little too late. I've wasted too much of my life troubleshooting arcane Mac problems to be fooled by the rhetoric. And what rhetoric! I know a half a dozen people with Apple logos TATOOED on their bodies! I don't know any pc users dumb enough to have Microsoft's logo indelibly etched into their flesh, do you? So yeah, I don't like macs. I've got a computer science degree, I use and support macs every single day, I know how they work, I understand why people like them, but it's all smoke and mirrors as far as I'm concerned. I'll be happy to support them, for a premium. But I will never, ever buy Apple products for my own use. My .02 -Ian PS - DRM, no matter how transparent, no matter how well meaning, no matter how or why it's implemented, is a tool of the Devil. IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: John/Slackonomics [mailto:slack@slackonomics.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:36 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple On Nov 1, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Nicholas Bolibruch wrote:
quoted 1 line I dislike Apple for compatibility reasons.> I dislike Apple for compatibility reasons.
Name me some of your "compatibility reasons", please. I use both Windows and Macintosh and frankly I haven't really come across any of your "compatibility reasons" yet. In fact, I find that Windows (or rather, Microsoft software) is generally less compatible than Macintosh and *Nix is. More Microsoft formats are closed-source, proprietary than Apple. Especially now that Apple's operating system is based on Unix and runs atop an open source platform.
quoted 5 lines I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with> I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with > a mission to crush evil Microsoft. But if they were in a similiar > situation as Microsoft, they would be acting in a similiar manner - > just like every company does. (if not even worse - since Steve Jobs is > somewhat fucked up, if the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley portrays
him
quoted 1 line accurately at all)> accurately at all)
The only theme of "Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a mission to crush evil Microsoft" is in your head. Nowhere has Apple stated that that's their "theme". You have a problem with a certain minority of vocal Apple users, not Apple itself, it sounds.
quoted 1 line I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products> I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products
quoted 5 lines that do not provide any additional functionality than commodity> that do not provide any additional functionality than commodity > products. (this can be very subjective obviously - but really I have > no personal use for the apparent advantages OS X provides, or any > other Apple product) This is especially true for the fact that I > cannot afford to pay a premium on any of their products - I would much
quoted 3 lines rather go with a cheaper unpopular competitive product. Technology> rather go with a cheaper unpopular competitive product. Technology > and consumer devices are expensive and if I can "trim the fat" I will > certainly do so.
The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in to the monitor). The Apple iBook starts at only $999. What was this premium you were referring to again? :)
quoted 4 lines I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the> I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the > only > innovative company in the world and that everyone is simply copying > them.
There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or larger platform just because a few users are idiots. I don't think that's very fair, do you?
quoted 1 line I dislike Apple for their support of DRM.> I dislike Apple for their support of DRM.
Every online music store to my knowledge uses DRM. Except maybe some marginal ones. DRM is unfortunately a necessary evil. Because, as we see with stuff like Kazaa and Soulseek, a lot of people will ruin a good thing. Apple wasn't the one that wanted to use DRM, it was the labels. Do you REALLY think the labels would let the music be released without DRM? Secondly, the DRM is mostly transparent. You can burn unlimited CD-Rs of the music you buy on iTunes Music Store. You can copy the tracks to an unlimited amount of iPods. You can also copy the music to up to FIVE computers you own (or your work computers), including both Mac or PC. You can stream the music to your friends/family on your network. I don't find the store that restrictive at all (although to be honest, I don't use it much since I still prefer to buy music on CD). If you don't like DRM, then don't use the music store. Simple as that. It's just one small aspect of Apple as a business.
quoted 1 line I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field".> I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field".
He's a salesman. I think his "reality-distortion field" is kinda funny myself. If nothing else, you gotta admit that Steve Jobs has changed the computer industry... numerous times.
quoted 3 lines I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple> I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple > on > every negative comment about Apple or Steve Jobs.
Just like you're making disparaging comments about Apple just now? And for the record, I'm a Windows user, too... so don't try lumping me in to your little categories.
quoted 5 lines NOTE:> NOTE: > I dislike Microsoft even more and for completely different reasons > than Apple, and I would probably encourage people who have the money > to purchase an Apple computer if they weren't using it to just play > games. I even like OS X! The above reasons are similiar reasons to why
quoted 7 lines I also hate the whole nVidia vs. ATi fanboyism. I personally use> I also hate the whole nVidia vs. ATi fanboyism. I personally use > Linux on commodity PC hardware - but I'm not going to preach to you > about it - especially since I know there's hundreds of other Linux > geeks who have lost touch with reality long ago that feel the need to > preach anyway. So if someone hates company XYZ without stating any > reason and are not on the subject of attacking company XYZ, please > just accept it and move on with your lives.
Well said. I enjoyed your post, btw. I mean no disrespect or animosity in my reply. I just though I'd clarify a different point of view. I respect your opinion on the matter and you're certainly entitled to everything you said. -- Mr. Tangent [the binary police] www.mrtangent.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org