quoted 10 lines Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 07:38:29 -0700> Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 07:38:29 -0700
> From: "Gonzi 'Fresh' Merchan" <fresh@linkonline.net>
> Subject: Re: (idm) gonzi vs. bjoerk
>
> > Well, I have to jump in with my two cents here, if only because these
> > "questions of authorship" are, in all essence, moot, if not ridiculous.
>
> Oh Alex. Questions of authorship are one of the most interesting issues
> of electronic music - especially sample based music. At least I think so
> at any rate. Nothing ridiculous about it.
Gonz, I agree with you, but you're getting your wires crossed. I meant in
that postto imply that "authorship" as you and other idmers see it as
really a discussion of credibility, which is, of course, subjective.
Credibility as legitimacy, as in, who gets bragging rights on this list,
and why (or more often, omitting reasons altogether and throwing in
insults).
IDM Lesson #1:
Capital-A authorship is not credibility.
quoted 9 lines These folks are sampling, or using sampled sound, no? Since when were> > These folks are sampling, or using sampled sound, no? Since when were
> > Bjoerk, RDJ, Autechre, Cylob (well, he plays trombone, but rarely), et
> > al., playing live instruments 100% of the time? These
> > artists/thieves/whatever are all taking sound from other people (come on
> > you slags) or equipment (303, anyone?). But this is academic, and anyone
> > on this list should know that off the bat before making comments about
> > "authorship." Especially you, Gonzi.
>
> Uhhh....now you're starting to split hairs.
No split hairs, man. These artists, including my heros Autechre (and your
hero, Squarepusher), are quite literally thieves of the sonic variety.
There's no way around it, really. Just the nature of the technology
involved. Now you want to start to talk about why one thief is more
legitimate a thief than the other, a la bjoerk vs. cylob. That's fine --
but (lesson #2) these two are both stealing their sound from other people.
This is a fairly black and white reality. Every idmer should acknowledge
this before making claims of which artist "keeps it real," a term wih
absolutely no meaning in electronic music.
Christ Gonz, you're a film student. I'm sure you've seen reels and reels
of crappy Pulp Fiction ripoffs by other film students. I don't study film,
and I know *I* have. There's a technique that goes down that everyone
uses, a style.
What makes thievery legitimate is how creative it is. The director for
Swingers uses slow-motion as a film student reference to ResDogs and
Raging Bull, but in a funny, tongue-in-cheek way.
You can't compare bjoerk and cylob on creativity -- it's like comparing
apples and oranges. You have to look at each on its own merits.
quoted 7 lines I'm not talking about who> I'm not talking about who
> makes the equipment (but who taught them to make the equipment, who
> taught the person that taught him, aren't his parents really responsible
> for him being here at all? You get the idea), I'm talking about who
> writes the songs and who makes the music. It's not quite as complicated
> as you're making it, it's right there in black and white in the liner
> notes.
The liner notes omit (very often) the source of the sound. Alex Patterson
is the only one with balls enough to credit other people, as far as I
know. Which may not be alot, as it is -- if bjoerk and cylob have listed
where their samples come from (come to think of it, cylob did mention rdj
on cylobian sunset; anyways....) which they most likely haven't (or at
least on a regular basis), then I stand corrected and humble.
quoted 3 lines How about some quality reviews, instead?> > How about some quality reviews, instead?
>
> Show me yours and I'll show you mine. (I love that saying..)
Actually, Gonzi, my last three posts have been fairly lengthy reviews.
I'll be on the lookout for those in-depth Bjoerk and Cylob reviews of
yours...
Alex