IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 7 lines ...the ambient picture in 1993 is confusing. Brian himself is confused.

>...the ambient picture in 1993 is confusing. Brian himself is confused. >"There's one area that I don't know much about that gets called ambient," he >confesses, "which is the Aphex Twin type area. Whenever I do hear things, I >don't particularly recognise it as what I call ambient." Of some of these >new ambient tracks, he comments, guardedly, that they "sound like what I >would do if I had just bought synthesiser. But then why not?" he adds. "I'm >sure that's what a lot of people think I do."

I definately got a different idea about what this comment meant before reading it than I have now. What Eno seems to be saying is that if he were to start making music today, he'd probably be making ambient music like that of the Aphex Twin. This seems to me to be high praise. I think it's important to make it clear whether you're talking about Ambient music or Ambient Dance music or Ambient Techno or whatever. There's a big difference between Eno's music for Airports and UFORB. Yet, I'd call them both ambient music. The difference is that Eno is attempting to recreate the feel of an airport, while the orb is attempting to recreate the feel of (say) an out of body experience (in oobe). The orb also would like their tracks to be danceable. In short, Ambient is an overused term and as such there is lots of room for misunderstanding. I would consider most of SAW II to be ambient in the Eno-esque sense. [fletcher]

quoted 5 lines Yet, I'd call them both ambient music. The difference is that Eno

> Yet, I'd call them both ambient music. The difference is that Eno > is attempting to recreate the feel of an airport, while the orb is > attempting to recreate the feel of (say) an out of body experience > (in oobe). The orb also would like their tracks to be danceable. >

Hm, perhaps I've misunderstood Eno's definition of ambient... With "Music for Airports", I don't think he was trying to recreate the feel of an airport at all. I thought that he had ideas on what properties music in an airport should have. For example, the music should stay out of the vocal frequencies so that you don't drown out the announcements made over the PA. Admittedly, I haven't listened to "Music for Airports" but from what I've read, that album was based on these sorts of ideas... On the other hand, ambient music as it stands today seems to have a much more free definition -- I'd almost say that its common characteristic is an emphasis on mood via soundscapes.

quoted 3 lines In short, Ambient is an overused term and as such there is lots of

> In short, Ambient is an overused term and as such there is lots of > room for misunderstanding. >

Indeed...

quoted 4 lines I would consider most of SAW II to be ambient in the Eno-esque sense.

> I would consider most of SAW II to be ambient in the Eno-esque sense. > > [fletcher] >

Rob

On Thu, 21 Jul 1994 fms@MIT.EDU wrote:

quoted 8 lines I think it's important to make it clear whether you're talking about

> > I think it's important to make it clear whether you're talking about > Ambient music or Ambient Dance music or Ambient Techno or whatever. > There's a big difference between Eno's music for Airports and UFORB. > Yet, I'd call them both ambient music. The difference is that Eno > is attempting to recreate the feel of an airport, while the orb is > attempting to recreate the feel of (say) an out of body experience > (in oobe). The orb also would like their tracks to be danceable.

I though, that specifically, Eno's definition of 'ambient' was music that could: a) be listened to, and at the same time b) function as sonic wallpaper (more at having a calming effect).

quoted 4 lines In short, Ambient is an overused term and as such there is lots of

> > In short, Ambient is an overused term and as such there is lots of > room for misunderstanding. >

without doubt! but I don't think it's that difficult to distinguish the different types. There's ambient with a beat, and without. There's ambient with a formal music structure, and without.

quoted 2 lines I would consider most of SAW II to be ambient in the Eno-esque sense.

> I would consider most of SAW II to be ambient in the Eno-esque sense. >

Now there, i would dissagree... I think most of SAW II, is very unlistenable. I think it only functions as a 'wallpaper' if you will, and you can't really hum out a melody, or harmony, or a beat or anything. granted - most- of that work -Gil

quoted 7 lines I think it's important to make it clear whether you're talking about

>> I think it's important to make it clear whether you're talking about >> Ambient music or Ambient Dance music or Ambient Techno or whatever. >> There's a big difference between Eno's music for Airports and UFORB. >> Yet, I'd call them both ambient music. The difference is that Eno >> is attempting to recreate the feel of an airport, while the orb is >> attempting to recreate the feel of (say) an out of body experience >> (in oobe). The orb also would like their tracks to be danceable.

quoted 3 lines I though, that specifically, Eno's definition of 'ambient' was music that

>I though, that specifically, Eno's definition of 'ambient' was music that >could: a) be listened to, and at the same time b) function as sonic >wallpaper (more at having a calming effect).

From what I remember reading in an interview with Eno, the aim of the series (Music for Airports was the first member of a series of about four works) was to produce music which was minimalist not to annoy people who didn't want to hear it, but which would interest the listener, and, most importantly, would meld in with the sounds already in the environment at which the music was targetted. Hence the term ambient music, since it was music targetted to be no more than part of the ambience; the rest of the sound environment was to be the noises of, say, airports. If I remember correctly, the genesis for the form was Eno, at home, listening to the way his fridge, the vacuum cleaner in the next room, the traffic and people in the street and so on all merged into a whole; this whole was simultaneously engaging if listened to and ignorable if desired. Sorry if this all comes across as a load of pretentious bollocks :) Cheers /================\ \======\ /====/ # # # # /========\ /===========\ # # # @@ # # === # /==\ / # # @@ # # # # # # == / # @@ # # # # # \=========/ \========/ \===/ \===/ spbcajk@ucl.ac.uk

Hi,

quoted 4 lines In short, Ambient is an overused term and as such there is lots of

> In short, Ambient is an overused term and as such there is lots of > room for misunderstanding. > > I would consider most of SAW II to be ambient in the Eno-esque sense.

I would definitely not. Eno music is not supposed to be listened to. It's wallpaper. SAW II on the other hand requires your utmost concentration. It demands that you actively listen to it so you get everything out of it that is in there. At least, that's how I feel about it. Greets, Lawrence Pit ---

Jon Kale <spbcajk@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

quoted 5 lines If I remember correctly, the genesis for the form was Eno, at home,

>If I remember correctly, the genesis for the form was Eno, at home, >listening to the way his fridge, the vacuum cleaner in the next >room, the traffic and people in the street and so on all merged into >a whole; this whole was simultaneously engaging if listened to and >ignorable if desired.

quoted 1 line Sorry if this all comes across as a load of pretentious bollocks :)

>Sorry if this all comes across as a load of pretentious bollocks :)

I'm no Eno expert, but I believe this is a precise definition of his original concept of "ambient." The way that techno fans/artists use the word is really in a different sense than that in which Eno used it. Thus, Eno's comment about "what they're calling ambient now." It's similar to the term "industrial." What most people now call industrial is radically different from the music it first described. Language changes, but that doesn't necessarily mean the current use of those terms is any less legitimate than the original uses. Wait...am I babbling? Al.

To those who said that Eno was intending to create music for a space rather than trying to recreate the sound of a space, you are right. I believe Music For Airports is music intended to be listened to at an airport. Eno's definition of ambient seems to closely parallel what I've always thought of as the definition of IDM (or ELM). Music that can function as sonic wallpaper whilst one is doing other things, is interesting enough to give a serious listening to, and is danceable if you are wont to do that sort of thing. Eno drops the danceable aspect (you don't dance in airports). In this sense I consider SAW II to be enoesque because you can't dance to it. I also think Music For Airports makes a pretty good listen :) I don't think I've given SAW II a good enough listen...I do have a related question, what track from SAW II is on Excursion in Ambience 3? Is it the missing track from the UK Vinyl to UK CD translation, or the missing track from the UK CD to US CD translation, or neither. [fletcher] [ i didn't take ambient music seriously until moby got into it :P ]

quoted 4 lines what track from SAW II is on Excursion in Ambience 3?

>what track from SAW II is on Excursion in Ambience 3? >Is it the missing track from the UK Vinyl to UK CD translation, >or the missing track from the UK CD to US >CD translation, or >neither.

quoted 1 line [fletcher]

>[fletcher]

As I remember, the press release said it was only available on the UK vinyl version.