IDM Mailing Archive

ps, oh yeah, i need the token "np" to say what cool-ass obscure "IDM" release i am listening to. come to think of it, i'm listening to minor threat :) they still rule, after so many years... New Fugazi is a Must have as well. have a nice day / philippe a parallel music for perpendicular feelings http://www.pandemoniumrecords.com

I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people I've ranted to about this)... Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band of his is going to cover Fugazi's "Waiting Room" on their next record? I'll fucking kill him. It will be justified. That first Fugazi record floored me when it came out. I was such a huge Minor Threat fan, and then when I put on that record and heard the opening chords of "Waiting Room" it just sounded so fresh compared to everything else that was going on. The last thing I need is to spend the next year of my life hearing a "nu-metal" version. And for the record, Minor Threat "Complete Discography" CD is a stable of the Montreal Ninja Tune office stereo, and 3 of us know every word. "Filler"...fuck ya! Jeff on 1/31/02 12:42 AM, philippe petit at philippe-petit@wanadoo.fr wrote:

quoted 14 lines ps, oh yeah, i need the token "np" to say what cool-ass obscure

> ps, oh yeah, i need the token "np" to say what cool-ass obscure > "IDM" > release i am listening to. come to think of it, i'm listening to > minor threat :) > > they still rule, after so many years... New Fugazi is a Must have as well. > have a nice day / philippe > > a parallel music for perpendicular feelings > http://www.pandemoniumrecords.com > > > >

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cheers to jeff's remarks. it's like that here @ ghostly too. we've got "in on the kill taker" and rites of spring (a pre fugazi group) on constantly. fugazi/ian/dischord was a vital part of my musical education growing up. i think it's their spirit of independence and no compromise/DIY ethics that really set the standard higher for indie labels, electronic or not. actually, if you can find it...right before fugazi was fully formed, guy/brendan and a few others did a really interesting album under the alias Happy Go Licky. there's a few tracks that are most interesting, if not for their manipulation of tape loops. -rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I finally decided to get the Minor Threat cd a couple of years ago to see what all the fuss is about and I was left thinking it must have been one of those things that affected people as it was happening, but now sounds quite benign and uninteresting. I don't know, personally I'd much rather listen to the Bad Brains album on ROIR any day. That stuff still sounds fierce to me. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

just spoke to amy over at dischord (ex bassist for fire party): apparently, they have heard rumor that our creatively innovative buddies in limp bizkit are allegedly covering "waiting room" for their next album. they really didn't sound too concerned either way though. i'm sure they could probably care less. anyone who knows dischord's ethics understands they could really give a shit about mainstream attention anyways. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Fuckin A, thats just really sad, I guess Ian and those guys need the money. I'm willing to bet that Fred and Co will totally miss out on the long pauses and just try to cheese rock it all the way. Equally as bad was manson's cover of tainted love, he needs to stop that cheesy goth throaty thing. Well I guess the kicker for that one would be the fact that its for a teenie booper movie. ps. props to philippe for keeping it hardcore :-) ~adesh http://www.recordcamp.com -----Original Message----- From: Jeff/Ninja Tune [mailto:jeff@ninjatune.net] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:06 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] listening to minor threat I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people I've ranted to about this)... Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band of his is going to cover Fugazi's "Waiting Room" on their next record? I'll fucking kill him. It will be justified. That first Fugazi record floored me when it came out. I was such a huge Minor Threat fan, and then when I put on that record and heard the opening chords of "Waiting Room" it just sounded so fresh compared to everything else that was going on. The last thing I need is to spend the next year of my life hearing a "nu-metal" version. And for the record, Minor Threat "Complete Discography" CD is a stable of the Montreal Ninja Tune office stereo, and 3 of us know every word. "Filler"...fuck ya! Jeff on 1/31/02 12:42 AM, philippe petit at philippe-petit@wanadoo.fr wrote:

quoted 14 lines ps, oh yeah, i need the token "np" to say what cool-ass obscure

> ps, oh yeah, i need the token "np" to say what cool-ass obscure > "IDM" > release i am listening to. come to think of it, i'm listening to > minor threat :) > > they still rule, after so many years... New Fugazi is a Must have as well. > have a nice day / philippe > > a parallel music for perpendicular feelings > http://www.pandemoniumrecords.com > > > >

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On 31-01-2002 20:22, "Record Camp" <lists@activaire.com> wrote: Fugazi ruled and basically are pure funk:))) Limp Petit-beurre should be tortured very slowly. Maybe Bush can send him to Kaboel. It might be a better idea to let idm remix it... This might be refreshing in stead of just a guitar-cover of a guitartrack. But I agree fully with the mentions about Minor Threat, Fugazi in this list. It might open up some eyes/minds. Best cover heard lately: "Cars" by Trumans Water (soon on the vinylversion on Delboy records) and off course "Are friend electric" by Girls On top. j

quoted 66 lines Fuckin A, thats just really sad, I guess Ian and those guys need the money.

> Fuckin A, thats just really sad, I guess Ian and those guys need the money. > I'm willing to bet that Fred and Co will totally miss out on the long pauses > and just try to cheese rock it all the way. > Equally as bad was manson's cover of tainted love, he needs to stop that > cheesy goth throaty thing. Well I guess the kicker for that one would be the > fact that its for a teenie booper movie. > > ps. props to philippe for keeping it hardcore :-) > > ~adesh > http://www.recordcamp.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff/Ninja Tune [mailto:jeff@ninjatune.net] > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:06 AM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] listening to minor threat > > > I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people I've > ranted to about this)... > > Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band of > his is going to cover Fugazi's "Waiting Room" on their next record? I'll > fucking kill him. It will be justified. That first Fugazi record floored me > when it came out. I was such a huge Minor Threat fan, and then when I put on > that record and heard the opening chords of "Waiting Room" it just sounded > so fresh compared to everything else that was going on. The last thing I > need is to spend the next year of my life hearing a "nu-metal" version. > > And for the record, Minor Threat "Complete Discography" CD is a stable of > the Montreal Ninja Tune office stereo, and 3 of us know every word. > "Filler"...fuck ya! > > Jeff > > > > on 1/31/02 12:42 AM, philippe petit at philippe-petit@wanadoo.fr wrote: > >> ps, oh yeah, i need the token "np" to say what cool-ass obscure >> "IDM" >> release i am listening to. come to think of it, i'm listening to >> minor threat :) >> >> they still rule, after so many years... New Fugazi is a Must have as well. >> have a nice day / philippe >> >> a parallel music for perpendicular feelings >> http://www.pandemoniumrecords.com >> >> >> >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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--- Jeff/Ninja Tune <jeff@ninjatune.net> wrote:

quoted 10 lines I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people

> I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people > I've > ranted to about this)... > > Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band > of > his is going to cover Fugazi's "Waiting Room" on their next record? I'll > fucking kill him. It will be justified. That first Fugazi record floored > me > when it came out.

I'd like to offer my services as the get-away driver. I'd like to work that stupid fucking backwards baseball cap he always wears into his murder... maybe cram it down his throat until he suffocates or something. But, don't they have to have some sort of permission to butcher "Waiting Room"? Now I gotta go home and bust out some Fugazi tonight. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, ugly and mean wrote:

quoted 2 lines But, don't they have to have some sort of permission to butcher "Waiting

> But, don't they have to have some sort of permission to butcher "Waiting > Room"?

I think you can just get permission from ASCAP or BMI to cover a song (assuming their songs are covered by one of the two). I don't think you even have to talk to the original copyright holder. Anyone else wanna back this up? For those who missed it, there are some great shots of Freddy Durst getting hit with a pie on buddyhead: http://www.buddyhead.com/gossip/ (scroll down a bit). Fred Durst is always making threatening comments about them in magazines because they're always passing out his phone numbers. Ha. They also sponsored some great remixes of "Fred Durst Is A Fucking Idiot, Loser Motherfucker Going Nowhere" featuring his own voice. I can't find links to it anymore, though. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

[philippe petit <philippe-petit@wanadoo.fr>]

quoted 1 line they still rule, after so many years... New Fugazi is a Must have as well.

> they still rule, after so many years... New Fugazi is a Must have as well.

Yea, especially the Furniture single... Fucking beautiful. -- :: atomly :: [ atomly@atomly.com : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 877.741.3571 ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band of

>Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band of >his is going to cover Fugazi's "Waiting Room" on their next record? I'll >fucking kill him. It will be justified.

please call me before you go and kill him. i want to either get a few punches or stab wounds in, or maybe i'll just help you disembowel his sorry ass! how could ian go out like that??? That first Fugazi record floored me

quoted 4 lines when it came out. I was such a huge Minor Threat fan, and then when I put

>when it came out. I was such a huge Minor Threat fan, and then when I put >on >that record and heard the opening chords of "Waiting Room" it just sounded >so fresh compared to everything else that was going on.

man, yes! that fugazi album + margin walker... woo! it is still the shit. i actually only have those two + repeater and have wanted to get back into their newer stuff. any recommendations? and yes, the minor threat complete discography is the absolute shit! zak. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines man, yes! that fugazi album + margin walker... woo! it is still the shit. i

> man, yes! that fugazi album + margin walker... woo! it is still the shit. i > actually only have those two + repeater and have wanted to get back into > their newer stuff. any recommendations?

I'm sure you'll find strong opinions about this just like anything, but I'd really say you can't go wrong with anything they've done. (Red Medicine, End Hits and In On The Kill Taker are some of my favorites) I know their music has changed some and evolved over the years as any good band should, but I absolutely love it all, and for many of the same reasons. Their stuff is ground breaking still today and is full of uniqueness and style that in my opinion is unmatched anywhere. They also still stand as one of the best live bands I've ever seen. period! -matT nashville.tn --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

should make a clarification here... I wouldn't blame Ian/Fugazi for letting it happen. As far as I know you can cover a song without permission as long as you pay the publishing on it....although I could be wrong, as it's not my area of expertise...Sample clearance I can tell you about, cover versions I can not. Jeff on 1/31/02 11:24 AM, zachary mastoon at zacharymastoon@hotmail.com wrote:

quoted 27 lines Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band of

>> Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band of >> his is going to cover Fugazi's "Waiting Room" on their next record? I'll >> fucking kill him. It will be justified. > > please call me before you go and kill him. i want to either get a few > punches or stab wounds in, or maybe i'll just help you disembowel his sorry > ass! how could ian go out like that??? > > > That first Fugazi record floored me >> when it came out. I was such a huge Minor Threat fan, and then when I put >> on >> that record and heard the opening chords of "Waiting Room" it just sounded >> so fresh compared to everything else that was going on. > > man, yes! that fugazi album + margin walker... woo! it is still the shit. i > actually only have those two + repeater and have wanted to get back into > their newer stuff. any recommendations? > > and yes, the minor threat complete discography is the absolute shit! > > zak. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com >

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yeah!!! to be honest, today was the first day in weeks that i paid closer attention to the postings... reading names like "steve malkmus" and "minor threat" in the headlines made me continue reading. very refreshing. maybe we should have a rock-week at the idm-list... common, i guess there are some people who are still into metal :) johannes -- :: 2.nd rec berlin :: c/o defcom :: schlesische str. 27 :: 10997 berlin, germany :: :: tel: +49 30 617 769 932 :: :: b@2-nd.com :: http://www.2-nd.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

funny enough I was listening the factory too sampler on the way to work this morning, rocking out to a band called east west coast and thinking how refreshing it was to rock out a bit. speaking of rocking out, our very own Nat is rocking out tomorrow at warsaw in greenpoint brooklyn, he puts on a good show and definitely rawks. ~adesh http://www.recordcamp.com -----Original Message----- From: 2.nd rec berlin [mailto:js@2-nd.com] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:34 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: [idm] listening to minor threat yeah!!! to be honest, today was the first day in weeks that i paid closer attention to the postings... reading names like "steve malkmus" and "minor threat" in the headlines made me continue reading. very refreshing. maybe we should have a rock-week at the idm-list... common, i guess there are some people who are still into metal :) johannes -- :: 2.nd rec berlin :: c/o defcom :: schlesische str. 27 :: 10997 berlin, germany :: :: tel: +49 30 617 769 932 :: :: b@2-nd.com :: http://www.2-nd.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines From: "Record Camp" <lists@activaire.com>

>From: "Record Camp" <lists@activaire.com> >Fuckin A, thats just really sad, I guess Ian and those guys need the money.

Actually, you don't really get to say if a band covers your song or not. Samples, yes, you control use f your recordings, but song-wise, but if they want to cover it, they just have to pay what is known as the "mechanical rate" - which is somewhere between 7 and 9 cents per copy sold, I believe. You only get to determine who records your song first. After that, it is fair game for anyone. One you've published a song, I think that anyone who pays the mechanical rate can do a cover as long as they notify and pay you the established fee. So, while you could get your ass sued off for an illegal Minor Threat remix album, you could do covers without samples for the whole damn thing, be you Limp Biz, Moby or Missy Elliot, and be clear. -td. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line Fuckin A, thats just really sad, I guess Ian and those guys need the money.

>Fuckin A, thats just really sad, I guess Ian and those guys need the money.

Actually -- and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure here -- Ian et al have absolutely no say over the matter. Anyone can record a cover of a song as long as they pay up the publishing fee. On a freedom-of-speech level, that's a great thing... it just sucks when it comes around and bites us in the ass, courtesy Fred Turds, I mean Durst. Cheers Philip --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff/Ninja Tune" <jeff@ninjatune.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [idm] listening to minor threat

quoted 5 lines I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people I've

> I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people I've > ranted to about this)... > > Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band of > his is going to cover Fugazi's "Waiting Room" on their next record?

WHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!!?!?! take up arms, people. is nothing fucking sacred anymore? can;t people just leave shit alone. --- http://www.mp3.com/edgey http://www.thoughtbludgeon.com "...when you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail..." THOUGHTBLUDGEON RECORDINGS - SOUND EXTREMES --- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 31 Jan 2002, Record Camp doth wrote:

quoted 2 lines Equally as bad was manson's cover of tainted love, he needs to stop that

> Equally as bad was manson's cover of tainted love, he needs to stop that > cheesy goth throaty thing. Well I guess the kicker for that one would be

the

quoted 1 line fact that its for a teenie booper movie.

> fact that its for a teenie booper movie.

One of the better finds in the old used bins has been a copy of the Tainted Love 12" by Coil. Now *that* is a cover ;D It's also exponentially more creepy than mr. manson's cover. Whodathunkit? derek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line Fuckin A, thats just really sad, I guess Ian and those guys need the

> Fuckin A, thats just really sad, I guess Ian and those guys need the

money.

quoted 1 line I'm willing to bet that Fred and Co will totally miss out on the long

> I'm willing to bet that Fred and Co will totally miss out on the long

pauses

quoted 1 line and just try to cheese rock it all the way.

> and just try to cheese rock it all the way.

You can cover any song you like as long as you keep true to the original composition and lyrics and pay a royalty. Once you start changing things around, then you have to ask permission. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

truly. coil has done some of my absolute favorite hair-raiser work. see "tainted love (soft cell remix)" and "egyptian bases". blake/ Clockworm http://mp3.com/clockworm ----- Original Message ----- From: "EggyToast" <youn0394@umn.edu> To: <rcamp@activaire.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [idm] listening to minor threat

quoted 7 lines On 31 Jan 2002, Record Camp doth wrote:

> On 31 Jan 2002, Record Camp doth wrote: > > Equally as bad was manson's cover of tainted love, he needs to stop that > > cheesy goth throaty thing. Well I guess the kicker for that one would be > the > > fact that its for a teenie booper movie. > > One of the better finds in the old used bins has been a copy of the

Tainted

quoted 3 lines Love 12" by Coil. Now *that* is a cover ;D

> Love 12" by Coil. Now *that* is a cover ;D > > It's also exponentially more creepy than mr. manson's cover.

Whodathunkit?

quoted 6 lines derek

> > derek > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 12:44 PM, C. Twomey wrote:

quoted 4 lines the good news it that with all the corporate dollar royalties coming in

> the good news it that with all the corporate dollar royalties coming in > Fugazi gigs and cds will be even cheaper! ;) > >

My younger brother's former band, The Monorchid, used to open for Fugazi and were on the Dischord and Touch 'N Go labels. To hear him talk, Fugazi doesn't need the corporate dollar royalties, nor do they even want them. -paulp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

just when i thought this list (as a whole) had completely lost all hope and any chance of soul, this thread comes up "i thought i was out, an' they pulled me back in" there should be a list for "good music", with some righteous mother fucker writing up the bands that can and cant be discussed, and then writing a program that automatically boots someone that gives props to one of those bands thats "not good" and also has the ability to detect sarcasm to some level but until someone comes up with that list and the program to boot, im glad to see that some people are open enough to spread the good word, and other people are smart enough to know to "leave the fuck alone with the whole 'OT' thing" personally, my favourite is in on the kill taker present listening: coils "philm" 10"(fucking genius, no doubt in my mind, this is the most under rated group ever)

quoted 19 lines --- Jeff/Ninja Tune <jeff@ninjatune.net> wrote:

>--- Jeff/Ninja Tune <jeff@ninjatune.net> wrote: > > I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people > > I've > > ranted to about this)... > > > > Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band > > of > > his is going to cover Fugazi's "Waiting Room" on their next record? I'll > > fucking kill him. It will be justified. That first Fugazi record floored > > me > > when it came out. > > >I'd like to offer my services as the get-away driver. I'd like to work >that stupid fucking backwards baseball cap he always wears into his >murder... maybe cram it down his throat until he suffocates or something. >But, don't they have to have some sort of permission to butcher "Waiting >Room"? Now I gotta go home and bust out some Fugazi tonight. >

-"I certainly had no feeling for harmony, and Schoenberg thought that that would make it impossible for me to write music. He said 'You'll come to a wall you won't be able to get through.' So I said, 'I'll beat my head against that wall.'" -John Cage _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

nope. nothin' ain't holy no more. the sad thing is, with this country's culture of memory (or lack thereof), no one will know that it's a cover version, and they'll think lump bizkitz's version is better. mark

quoted 5 lines I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people I've

> I've possibly mentioned this already (can't remember how many people I've > ranted to about this)... > > Who else has heard that Fred Durst and that shit ass Limp Bisquick band of > his is going to cover Fugazi's "Waiting Room" on their next record?

WHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!!?!?! take up arms, people. is nothing fucking sacred anymore? can;t people just leave shit alone. -- mark kammerbauer http://www.nexialist.com GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines nope. nothin' ain't holy no more. the sad thing is,

> nope. nothin' ain't holy no more. the sad thing is, > with this country's culture of memory (or lack > thereof), no one will know that it's a cover > version, and they'll think lump bizkitz's > version is better.

And they'd be wrong, because the superior version is obviously Atom And His Package's. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org