IDM Mailing Archive

first of all, i'd like to say a sincere thanks to lance for starting a moderated idm-l. i sure as heck will be joining. however, know that it will be a very very large undertaking, even if only 25% of the current idm-l members switch over. for those of you new to the list, lance has been around here quite a while, and, when not in one of his occassional silent periods, has contributed more to this list than just about anyone else that i can think of. thanks lance... on to other topics. the signal to noise ratio on this list has become nearly unbearable. there's been many a time when i've said to myself, "screw this, i'm outta here" and then remembered, "damn, i can't...i'm the list admin". there was a point (even within the past several years) where this list was an extremely useful entity. i bought records based on other's recommendations, went to shows to meet other listmembers, and generally geeked out with other likeminded people. now, many of the people whose opinions i so respected have left. it may amaze some of you to hear this, but there was a time when people respected each-other's opinions, even if they disagreed, the word "fuck" showed up less than 50 times a day, and was almost never followed by the words "you" or "off". granted, i was not here when this list started (i joined prolly a year into it), but i have seen glimpses here and there of what a good, functional idm list can be, and where we are at right now is not it. Right now this is beginning to look more like an AOL chatroom than a group of people interested in discussing experiences, ideas, and discoveries, which is what this list was originally formed around. here's a quote from the idm-l policies: "So as to prevent the list from becoming a hopeless barrage of flame mail over what is and is not "intelligent", the official stance will be that all opinions are to be respected - you are welcome to disagree and post your disagreements, but outright flames and name-calling are to be avoided. However, if you declare that "Rozalla is intelligent dance music", you should be willing and able to back it up - not just "because it obviously is." Just remember that your mail goes into approximately 900 mail boxes worldwide therefore unrelated or unneccessary posts should be kept to an absolute minimum." However, that quote is pretty old. I stole it from the previous list admin, who i believe stole it from the admin before him. One major change is that instead of 900 list members, we are looking at closer to *2000* list members. As one would expect, as a list grows, the traffic increases....but what we didn't expect was the overall demeanor and disposition of the list to go down the crapper in a direct relationship with the number of listmembers. I'm sure i'm not the only one getting sick of the "confield rocks" / "confield sucks" / "screw you" / "yer mom" kind of crap posts that are multiplying like rabbits around here. that being said, if i find that people are being rude, disruptful, hasty on the reply button, or generally disrespectful to others on the list, i *will* kick you. you may or may not get an accompanying email from me re: why you have been kicked. i've tried the nice friendly route, where i ask politely for people to please keep their arguments and flame wars off-list, but it doesn't seem to be working. consider yourself warned. i would like to get this list back into the bearable, if not good category. here's what i need from listmembers: - reviews: tell us what you think of the music that you buy. if your review contains the words "rocks", "sucks", "blows", "bites" or anything similar, keep it to yourself...at that point you're only writing to get a response, not to foster discussion. - news: keep us updated. not about about the 14th ae-ripoff track that you've posted on mp3.com in the last month, but about interesting things....if you can't distinguish between the two, please find another list. - be selective: only write if you have something to say that adds to the discussion. "me too" posts & posts that re-state what previous posts have said are not needed. - show some restraint: if someone on the list is acting like an idiot and obviously trying to get people pissed off, just ignore them. they're like the little kid down the street when you were growing up that didn't know how to make friends, so they just pestered the other kids. if we ignore them, they'll get the picture, and hopefully come back later with something useful to say. and lastly: - someone organize a damn potluck. ferchrissake, nothing brings people together like a crock pot full o' meatballs (tofu-balls if you prefer) and some generic soda. you think i'm joking but i'm not.... early aphex and potato salad go very well together. okay, i think that's about it. it's late now and i apologize for the typos and grammatically-challenged sentences. let's get our ish together folks. discuss amongst yourselves.... brian r. clickpop@hyperreal.org idm-l admin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Dang, now I feel like I have no freedom to say anything really. I will explain why. It's kind of long, so if you aren't interested, just delete it. Brian, I need you to read this though. on 5/15/01 1:29 AM, clickpop@hyperreal.org at clickpop@hyperreal.org wrote:

quoted 5 lines - reviews: tell us what you think of the music that you buy.

> - reviews: tell us what you think of the music that you buy. > if your review contains the words "rocks", "sucks", "blows", > "bites" or anything similar, keep it to yourself...at that point > you're only writing to get a response, not to foster discussion. >

I believe that contents of messages containing these words can still contain other useful information other than just the words: AE ROCKS Sincerely Joe Blow In this example I can understand, but in the way you stated this I could write a full page essay, valid in content and end it with the words, "Over all, AE Rocks" and still fall under the category of supposedly not contributing anything valid according to what you just said. BTW, isn't getting a response part of fostering a discussion? I think you have to consider the issue of what kind of response this person is looking for.

quoted 5 lines - news: keep us updated. not about about the 14th ae-ripoff

> - news: keep us updated. not about about the 14th ae-ripoff > track that you've posted on mp3.com in the last month, but > about interesting things....if you can't distinguish between the > two, please find another list. >

see, now, i like hearing about other people's music from this list. This list is a pool of talent in my opinion. I like hearing people from this list progress with their sound. It gets me excited and inspires me to write more music. I thought the whole point of this list was to find new music, hear about shows, hear about updated information. I think that keeping the list updated with your music once in a while isn't a bad thing. I mean, I am sure everyone has done it at least once. I can understand if a person doesn't contribute anything useful except to say only, "Hey, check out my music at mp3.com" EVERY TIME they post, I could understand. I don't think it's fair to say someone contributing to the list the news of one of their new songs isn't "interesting". I find it interesting. I check out 90% of all music that is requested a listen to on this list. Maybe those of you who don't like it when people do that on this list should consider it. Yes, you have to weed through a lot music, but a lot of it is really good.

quoted 4 lines - be selective: only write if you have something to say that

> - be selective: only write if you have something to say that > adds to the discussion. "me too" posts & posts that re-state > what previous posts have said are not needed. >

This is fair enough. I can see your point on this one.

quoted 7 lines - show some restraint: if someone on the list is acting like

> - show some restraint: if someone on the list is acting like > an idiot and obviously trying to get people pissed off, just > ignore them. they're like the little kid down the street > when you were growing up that didn't know how to make > friends, so they just pestered the other kids. if we ignore > them, they'll get the picture, and hopefully come back later > with something useful to say.

I hope that we will be practicing some analitical thinking on this judgement call. I know I have probably said some things before that have pissed people off, but that doesn't mean I was intentional in trying to piss people off. Overall, Brian, I can see your concern for the list and I find validaty in these concerns, but I think that you need to be careful of the things you demand of the list, or at least how you state these demands. It seems like I can't say anything cause it violates one of your rules. Can't talk about my music, can't piss anyone off, can't express your appreciation for music if someone already has, and you can only talk about what's interesting (is this based on what's interesting to you, or to us?). So why don't we call this the IDM Show list, since that is all that is left for us to talk about. Reviews on Shows, and dates of upcoming shows. There is no freedom. I understand the overall concern and I agree. I would like a list of smarter comments, useful comments, and less of the "fuck you" comments. I have disagreed with many comments on this list, but I think I have over all been very fair about my replies. (if you don't think I have, feel free to let me know how offlist) I know that you are the moderator of this list and what you say is pretty much what goes, but please think deeply about what you are asking of us. I am fairly new to this list and love it for all the information that I have acquired from this list. I have learned about plug-ins, shows, equipment, writing methods, that have all taken my music to the next level. My friends tell me that my music has taken a drastic jump of improvement in the time that I have been on this list and I thank those on this list who contributed that info that has helped me. Such high demand of limitation doesn't foster discussion, it fosters stagnation cause there is no freedom. this list has gotten so big because of it's freedom, you just have to weed through all the negative. I mean, honestly, i get tired of deleting all those messages as much as the next, but when I get to that one that I find useful information, it makes it all worth it too me. I don't know maybe i am taking all of this too seriously, but I am concerned and thought someone should know how I feel. Peter "Pachinko" Ý - http://www.mp3.com/pachinko - --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In the wake of Brian's inspirational post last night I have taken to emailing a few people here and there who I see posting stuff which is inappropriate or does not contain enough content to warrant a posting to the list. I would encourage others to do the same (all offlist of course) as I think self policing by the members, especially those who have been around a while and remember what it once was, is the only thing that is going to tame this unruly yet once glorious beast IDM-L. If you receive a private email from me or one of the other list members please understand this is not an invitation to a flamewar or a criticism meant to be taken on a personal level, but is done only in the interest of returning IDM to an acceptable S/N ratio. Thanks, gnz. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines I may be more tolerant of "Yo, check my Mp3z out, bitches" type posts than

>I may be more tolerant of "Yo, check my Mp3z out, bitches" type posts than >Brian is... and I don't think anyone minds list members who regularly >contribute to discussion and occasionally post a link to their music for >list members to check out. However, I do have a problem with people who >use the list purely for publicizing their own creations and who are bit >abrasive about it. It's been a while since I remembered being so >bothered by one poster, though. I'm guessing that's what Brian is aiming >at..(I stress "guessing")

I immediately though of "dannn". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines On Tue, 15 May 2001, Peter Schrock wrote:

> On Tue, 15 May 2001, Peter Schrock wrote: > > In this example I can understand, but in the way you stated this I could > > write a full page essay, valid in content and end it with the words,

"Over

quoted 5 lines all, AE Rocks" and still fall under the category of supposedly not

> > all, AE Rocks" and still fall under the category of supposedly not > > contributing anything valid according to what you just said. > > I'm assuming Brian meant to type the word "only" before "using the words > 'rock', 'blow', 'sucks',...".

of course, my comments were not meant literally. the word "rocks" does not automatically disqualify a post from being good, provided that "rocks" is surrounded by other words whose aim it is to make an intelligent statement. also, the list of things that i provided at the end of the post were meant as suggestions, not rules. i apologize if they came out the wrong way. the list is most useful and enjoyable when people are discussing music. i'm trying to get away from the bickering that has plagued this list for some time. re: plugging your own music. i'm all for it. put a link in your sig file. tag some info onto the end of a post. i think we all want to hear new stuff. however, there have been times when the self-promotion has gotten a bit out of hand, ie people posting every other day about new tracks they've put up. i really think it's getting better at this point. my comments were primarily meant to reinforce the current trend. i've been getting a lot of feedback from you all, and i appreciate it. normally i would have replied directly to peter, however, i felt that he brought up some good points that deserved further explanation. please feel free to write me personally with any further suggestions, thoughts, etc. brian r. clickpop@hyperreal.org idm-l admin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org