179,854Messages
9,130Senders
30Years
342mboxes

← archive index

Re: (idm) psychoacoustics

6 messages · 6 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
1999-12-29 21:28Peter Shultz (idm) psychoacoustics
└─ 1999-12-30 00:37Cristian Re: (idm) psychoacoustics
1999-12-30 14:27James Roberts Re: (idm) psychoacoustics
1999-12-30 18:37dahtbig Re: (idm) psychoacoustics
1999-12-30 19:24Re: (idm) psychoacoustics
1999-12-31 03:38(idm) psychoacoustics
expand allcollapse allclick any summary to toggle that message
1999-12-29 21:28Peter ShultzHi everybody, This is probably off-topic, but someboy out there might find this interestin
From:
Peter Shultz
To:
Date:
Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:28:57 -0500
Subject:
(idm) psychoacoustics
permalink · <386A7D18.DEEF1C35@princeton.edu>
Hi everybody, This is probably off-topic, but someboy out there might find this interesting. Here's my problem: I've noticed that when I have music playing on at a medium-loud volume on my headphones, and then take them off while the music keeps playing, the pitch I hear coming from the 'phones sags by as much as a quarter-tone compared to when I had them on my head. Is this just me, or has anyone else noticed it too? I haven't seen this illusion dealt with in any of the psychoacoustics material I've read (granted, that's not saying much), and nobody I know has spoken of it, so can anyone tell me why it's happening? Here are my hypotheses, and why I think they're all false: 1) "It's just a Doppler shift caused my the motion of my headphones away from my head." This is false because the pitch-sag persists even when I'm holding the headphones still. 2) "It's a psychoacoustic relation between volume and pitch." This still may be partially true, but turning the volume up and down on my loudspeakers has no effect on the pitch. I noticed, however, that headphone pitch-sag is most noticable when the music is played at louder volumes. Anyway, it's something I've been curious about for a while, so I'd be interested to hear someone's explanation. -Peter --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-30 00:37Cristianyea. i dont get the same thing quite. instead i get what appears to be a substantially hig
From:
Cristian
To:
Peter Shultz
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:37:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) psychoacoustics
Reply to:
(idm) psychoacoustics
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.05.9912291632040.1852-100000@herm.they.org>
yea. i dont get the same thing quite. instead i get what appears to be a substantially higher tempo whenever i listen to anything in headphones as opposed to open air. ive never bothered to find out why it happens because im so fucking lazy but like you im dead curious what its all about. sorry i cant answer your question but this is the first time anyone has asked anything similar and i thought id compoind the query a little because perhaps the two are related somehow. any of you nice forks got any idas? cya. m. ed eval On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, Peter Shultz wrote:
quoted 20 lines Hi everybody,> Hi everybody, > This is probably off-topic, but someboy out there might find this interesting. Here's my problem: I've noticed that when I have music playing on at a medium-loud volume on my headphones, and then take them off while the music keeps playing, the pitch I hear coming from the 'phones sags by as much as a quarter-tone compared to when I had them on my head. Is this just me, or has anyone else noticed it too? > I haven't seen this illusion dealt with in any of the psychoacoustics material I've read (granted, that's not saying much), and nobody I know has spoken of it, so can anyone tell me why it's happening? > Here are my hypotheses, and why I think they're all false: > > 1) "It's just a Doppler shift caused my the motion of my headphones away from my head." This is false because the pitch-sag persists even when I'm holding the headphones still. > > 2) "It's a psychoacoustic relation between volume and pitch." This still may be partially true, but turning the volume up and down on my loudspeakers has no effect on the pitch. I noticed, however, that headphone pitch-sag is most noticable when the music is played at louder volumes. > > Anyway, it's something I've been curious about for a while, so I'd be interested to hear someone's explanation. > > -Peter > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-30 14:27James RobertsAnother psychoacoustics thingy: whenever I leave the room and go into another one, with a
From:
James Roberts
To:
Date:
Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:27:37 -0000
Subject:
Re: (idm) psychoacoustics
permalink · <001301bf52d2$1e772dc0$5743883e@wzngemxm>
Another psychoacoustics thingy: whenever I leave the room and go into another one, with a CD playing, the tempo of the music increases. Again, no idea why. Perhaps we should be talking to the folks at Aphex Systems... And an artist recommendation. Point B is very cool - cut 'n' paste algorhythmic melodies replete with fuzz and noise, which leap about the mix of their own accord. Think of the sonics of Boards Of Canada sliced up and recollaged. 4.1 is a miniature masterpiece. Nothing to offend there, then. James Roberts (aka ISDS) ------ www.mp3.com/isds --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-30 18:37dahtbig----- Original Message ----- From: James Roberts <james@robertsyork.freeserve.co.uk> To: <
From:
dahtbig
To:
James Roberts ,
Date:
Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:37:33 -0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) psychoacoustics
permalink · <003901bf52f4$f11d7280$2207163f@ELNdahtbig>
----- Original Message ----- From: James Roberts <james@robertsyork.freeserve.co.uk> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 6:27 AM Subject: Re: (idm) psychoacoustics
quoted 2 lines Another psychoacoustics thingy: whenever I leave the room and go into> Another psychoacoustics thingy: whenever I leave the room and go into > another one, with a CD playing, the tempo of the music increases. Again,
no
quoted 2 lines idea why. Perhaps we should be talking to the folks at Aphex Systems...> idea why. Perhaps we should be talking to the folks at Aphex Systems... >
you might have interest in Ryoji Ikeda's release "+/-" (on Touch) which among other things has tracks that showcase certain acoustic phenomenon as tones sounding very different depending on how your head is oriented to the speakers. think panasonic but ultra polished/clean... There is also an artist I am as of late very much into by the name of Toshiya Tsunoda who is recording what he calls "standing waves"-my understanding is this the acoustic phenomenon of the exact point in an environment where a sound souce meets its echo within that environment...this particular "sound point" is what he is after recording in different environments with different sound sources. Excellent subtle ambience, available through Anomalous Records (no affiliation). those are starting points :) -Thad --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-30 19:24Cesium5Hz@aol.comAccessed a Thomas Brinkmann interview from Urbansounds in which a Q deals with the particu
From:
To:
Date:
Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:24:07 EST
Subject:
Re: (idm) psychoacoustics
permalink · <0.87621f7d.259d0b57@aol.com>
Accessed a Thomas Brinkmann interview from Urbansounds in which a Q deals with the particular aspect of acoustical/ space orientation. Q: You mentioned how your orientation in rooms is guided by your ears. When I brought home "x100" I put it on, turned off all the lights, and just sat there in the dark, listening, over and over. And somehow, it gradually came to define the space of the room. " We did a lot of funny things making this record. A friend of mine and I sat in front of the speakers -- my friend at the left speaker, and me at the right speaker -- and we just noted the beats on paper. For every beat, each of us would make a mark, so we could count the beats. I wanted to know if I'd made a mistake, because the number of beats was very precise. The track had to be exactly 20 minutes long, and in that 20 minutes, each channel had to have a particular number of beats. I don't remember exactly, but one channel had to have two beats more than the other. A very slight difference. It's very interesting to listen to those things, and also at the same time to be making a kind of introspection. It's very hard to figure it out, when you just listen to the sounds, that there will be two circles running [on the surface of the record]. Even if you know about it, it's not possible to see the circles in your mind. It's not possible to figure out the movement that is going on. And it is a movement, in an optical way and in an acoustical way. One is going a little bit slower, the other a little bit faster. The bass drums are moving [in relation to one another], on your screen, if you close your eyes." Taken from Urbansounds Issue 1. Vol 2 (1999) I would add to this phenomenon, the interaction which occurs between sound and visual perception. It seems that the frequency and intensity of certain music does have a significant effect on our visual processes; that which suggests a particular frequency/ intensity of sound may correlate with perception of visual stimuli. This of course, may occur at a subconscious or conscious level. Minimalistic music may effectively reduce certain aspects of visual stimuli whilst more complex polyrhythmic music may cause us to see more detail in our environment. Right now, the minimalistic rhythms of Brinkmann's Concept: Variations 96 are affecting my perception of the reflected colour of the walls in my room - reduction in sound particles >>> visual particles. :~) A Z --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-31 03:38godpup@ix.netcom.comin regards to psychoacoustics, do a search on HRTF. (head related transfer functions) we s
From:
To:
Date:
Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:38:07 -0500
Subject:
(idm) psychoacoustics
permalink · <Springmail.105.946611487.0.48247400@www.springmail.com>
in regards to psychoacoustics, do a search on HRTF. (head related transfer functions) we studied the effects of speaker placement and sonic perception at the army research lab (no, i'm not a soldier...) along with the 'effects' created by headphones. if you really want to get into all that stuff, you have to study transfer functions (fft and ifft among others) and be willing to read through A LOT of literature. we used matlab and a tucker davis machine (basically a rack full of dsp units connected to the p.c. via fiber optic cables to eliminate line noise) to design a digital filter (software based and programmed in pascal and m) which would (in conjunction with the td machines) accurately recreate a desired waveform. basically we would set up a bose speaker and a microphone and program the td to send out 10 pink noise bursts. (churps actually...) the td (capable of full duplex... i.e. play and record at the same time) and matlab would know exactly what was projected thro! ! ugh the speaker and compare that signal with what was recorded through the microphone. matlab would instruct the programmable dsp units of the td to 'adjust' the churps until what was recorded matched the desired waveform we programmed in matlab. lots of pole / zero plotting and z-transform analysis which, to my belief, was only truly understood by the scientist i was working with. (smartest man i've EVER met) 'folding' imaginary Xs (poles) back into a circle representing real and imaginary numbers in a three dimensional plane can be a bit, um, confusing. (like this message...hehe) in short, it's an 'inverse' filter used to remove the 'distortion' of soundwaves caused by surface structures. (floors, ceilings, etc) oh yeah, whenever you listen to music through a speaker, you're hearing a distorted signal regardless of how good your speakers are... (yes, we actually used bone conducting transducers to vibrate the inner bones of the ear to compare with the sound of headphone! ! s. kinda fun actually) many of the effects regarding headphones (the research lab has lots of life sized 'dummies' used to study the long term effects of gun fire on soldiers hearing / performance) involves the fact that the sound coming out of the headphones actually resonates in the ear canal and 'bounces' off the diaphragm of the headphones. (this is the equivalent of an infinite impulse response filter which isn't phase linear or stable...) before i left, we were working on a filter (matlab and td again) which would cause the headphones to be 'transparent' to the listener. (3D audio is a big area of research for pilots in the military... helicopters in particluar) i had to leave for college before i could hear / see the final results but i'm hoping to sneak a peak over the break. glad to say that i've never worked with weapons, christian.adam.hresko. : the research lab had the facilities to make some INCREDIBLE sounds... enough equipment and software to make any electronic music 'fan' grin in envy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org