IDM Mailing Archive

okay, to beat a dead horse.. if something's out of print, and the record label isn't expecting to make any more money off the release anyway (their own fault for limiting everything to 100 copies..), what's the harm in burning a copy for someone? say if i send a blank CDR to someone, they burn a copy of mask, mas, markant, whatever for free, who's getting hurt? if anything, i'm able to hear something that is no longer available, and if i like it enough, i'll 'support' that label / artist in one way or another. if all these kind and generous folk aren't in it for the money, why should they care if CDRs are being made with out of print material? could we please have another frisbee release? yes, money put to good use. argue that pressing to vinyl and limiting a release is cost effective and 'invest' the savings in flying objects. pure genius. next in line is the 'limited to 0 pressings' release. so damn limited, it's not even going to be released. so send 10 bucks and support your favorite label. yeah... the vinyl issue... no, i don't have a turntable and yes it sucks because you miss out on a lot of stuff. but as mentioned before, not everyone is a d.j, and i like to listen to stuff when i drive. (and i don't plan on hooking a turntable up to my car stereo..) burn a copy to CD? make a copy on tape? i don't have a burner and tape hiss sucks. are people really trying to make things so limited, so damn hard to find, and on every format that's not practical for everyday use to help and expand this so called genre of music? my excuse for not having a turntable is that i don't want one. i like CD players. i like shuffle mode. i like being able to put a bunch of CDs in my backpack and hiking over to a friends house. and the v/vm thing. four 'machine' 7" releases. what the fuck? you guys (v/vm) are doing great stuff, but why can't you just release a plain old CD? why, why, why? yes, i'm bitching and complaining. you know what would be cool? a 2CD set (not limited) with select tracks from skam, mas, mask, v/vm, markant, chocolate industries, isophlux, schematic, compost, suction, mego, etc.. all containing 'previously out of print or unavailable' material. i'm sure somebody would compile, and master this thing for close to free just to get it released. i'd pay 25 - 35 bucks for that no problem. but why hasn't this been done? because people are goofy. yep, that's the answer to the whole thing. goofballs. anyway, i'm glad to see that 'domestic' labels like matador are making this music 'accessible' to the everyday public in non-vinyl format. i like to read from the inside out, christian -- " Old Fashioned Technology in Newly Fashioned Ways... " ICQ# 15688864

"christian a. h." wrote:

quoted 1 line could we please have another frisbee release?

> could we please have another frisbee release?

Very good point.

quoted 4 lines you know what would be cool? a 2CD set (not limited) with

> you know what would be cool? a 2CD set (not limited) with > select tracks from skam, mas, mask, v/vm, markant, chocolate > industries, isophlux, schematic, compost, suction, mego, etc.. > all containing 'previously out of print or unavailable' material.

You mean like _0161_, _Skampler_, _Compost_50_, _The_Stranger_, _Loraine_, _Plug_Research_And_Development_ , _Blip,_Bleep_ or _Picknick_mit_Hermann!_ ? These things exist at some level, but at the end of the day, we all want everything. Would you be satisfied with a comp that had, say, three random MASK tracks, or would you still want someone to help you obtain the rest of the tracks? I thought so. -- Adam J Weitzman NewsEdge Corporation Is it supposed to http://www.newsedge.com sound like that? http://www.newspage.com

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Adam J Weitzman wrote: _Picknick_mit_Hermann!_ ? what is this? chris.

zimbo wrote:

quoted 3 lines On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Adam J Weitzman wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Adam J Weitzman wrote: > > _Picknick_mit_Hermann!_ > what is this?

It's a live recoding featuring many Mego luminaries. There's a description here: http://www.mdos.at/detail-bytitle.php3?pid=478 -- Adam J Weitzman NewsEdge Corporation Is it supposed to http://www.newsedge.com sound like that? http://www.newspage.com

quoted 6 lines if something's out of print, and the record label isn't expecting to

> if something's out of print, and the record label isn't expecting to > make any more money off the release anyway (their own fault for limiting > everything to 100 copies..), what's the harm in burning a copy for > someone? say if i send a blank CDR to someone, they burn a copy of > mask, mas, markant, whatever for free, who's getting hurt? > the vinyl issue...

I look at this from 2 perspectives. The first being how frustrating it is not to find some of the items you want or when you do the prices they go for. Which is why it's great like Schematic and Acid Planet for example are repessing their backcatalogs. I don't think it's all money there, but a supply/demand issue. The other perspective being that the labels/aritsts in some cases intend on releases to be crazy limited and people want to do boot issues of them to go against their original intentions. The Mask CDR thing is a nice idea, but not a good idea to sell here (which answered the old thread question if Andy Maddocks knows what is going on on our list). But the CDR boot thing is a little to heavy in the piracy area. I do like the IDM ftp server thing though w/ mp3's of all your needed OOP material. That way you could d/l in high quality and everything. And even if you don't have a CD burner to do it yourself, doesn't everyone know someone w/ a burner? I mean at least one person on your Apt floor or suburban street must have one. If OOP material should be sent around I prefer ftp'ing of mp3.

quoted 23 lines no, i don't have a turntable and yes it sucks because you miss out on a

> no, i don't have a turntable and yes it sucks because you miss out on a > lot of stuff. but as mentioned before, not everyone is a d.j, and i > like to listen to stuff when i drive. (and i don't plan on hooking a > turntable up to my car stereo..) burn a copy to CD? make a copy on > tape? i don't have a burner and tape hiss sucks. are people really > trying to make things so limited, so damn hard to find, and on every > format that's not practical for everyday use to help and expand this so > called genre of music? my excuse for not having a turntable is that i > don't want one. i like CD players. i like shuffle mode. i like being > able to put a bunch of CDs in my backpack and hiking over to a friends > house. and the v/vm thing. four 'machine' 7" releases. what the > fuck? you guys (v/vm) are doing great stuff, but why can't you just > release a plain old CD? why, why, why? yes, i'm bitching and > complaining. you know what would be cool? a 2CD set (not limited) with > select tracks from skam, mas, mask, v/vm, markant, chocolate industries, > isophlux, schematic, compost, suction, mego, etc.. all containing > 'previously out of print or unavailable' material. i'm sure somebody > would compile, and master this thing for close to free just to get it > released. i'd pay 25 - 35 bucks for that no problem. but why hasn't > this been done? because people are goofy. yep, that's the answer to > the whole thing. goofballs. anyway, i'm glad to see that 'domestic' > labels like matador are making this music 'accessible' to the everyday > public in non-vinyl format.

I personally like vinyl (12" that is, down with 7s) myself, especially since some things IE Funkstörung sound good at either speed depending on my mood. And there are an increasing # of CDs being released, so I have music for my car and home. My only hige quam w/ vinyl is weight. On most occasions since I live in MD I pick up my stuff, but if S:kimo doesn't have what I need mail order comes in. I know how much I buy at a time and at those times shipping makes me feel like I'm being mailed a synth, not just music someone produced with one. Not to mention how easily vinyl in damaged in shipping. As far as transferring to CDR, I wish my turntables weren't 2 rooms away from my computer. Preferences aside vinyl is about one issue MONEY. There isn't one of us who isn't aware how much cheaper vinyl (Especially 7"ers) are to produce than CDs. This is what it comes down to. IDM is a small market w/ little money to be trafficed, so vinyl is predominant. Now that CDR's are so rampant there is a rise in material released this way which is sure to continue rapidly. Just some thoughts, other opinions please. later4now! numb

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 NATASno9@aol.com wrote:

quoted 6 lines computer. Preferences aside vinyl is about one issue MONEY. There isn't one

> computer. Preferences aside vinyl is about one issue MONEY. There isn't one > of us who isn't aware how much cheaper vinyl (Especially 7"ers) are to produce > than CDs. This is what it comes down to. IDM is a small market w/ little > money to be trafficed, so vinyl is predominant. Now that CDR's are so rampant > there is a rise in material released this way which is sure to continue > rapidly. Just some thoughts, other opinions please. later4now!

It is actually cheaper to put out a cd than a piece of vinyl. Remember a cd can hold 74 min. Vinyl comes no where near this. For the same price that I can press vinyl I can press cds and be able to put more music on it. So price per minute of music is cheaper for a cd. Believe me that matters. Next, a lot of places will actually price cd pressings cheaper than vinyl pressings. why? because it is easier to press a cd. my label's first release will be a cd. The second will be vinyl. Why? because that one is aimed at the dj/people who want to mess with the sounds crowd. Mp3s will be made available of the vinyl release for those that do not own a turntable. -daniel p.s. I think skam should put out limited edition golf balls signed by lego feet. That would be really keen. They could make them different colors and hard to bootleg. Think of all the money they have been wasting on putting out music when they could have put out sporting goods. I know I love my skam baseball.

One day it will be the year 2399 and compact discs and vinyl will mean nothing. All you have to do is say: "computer... earth music... genre: electronic... Funkstorung." -- Jason McCollum jm45675@swt.edu

...and lounge-dj's will sit at a table with the rest of the "audience" and whisper into wireless mics: "Use Cue Point #2 to timestretch-sync with Previous in 3/4 ratio, cross-fade with Curve #1 for 24 counts, Auto-Normalize levels. ...Now." ...sip their rum-coke and then continue to scroll through the music-title database on their computerized-watch. solenoid On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Jason McCollum wrote:

quoted 9 lines One day it will be the year 2399 and compact discs and vinyl will mean nothing.

> One day it will be the year 2399 and compact discs and vinyl will mean nothing. > All you have to do is say: "computer... earth music... genre: electronic... > Funkstorung." > > -- > Jason McCollum > jm45675@swt.edu > >

quoted 6 lines It is actually cheaper to put out a cd than a piece of vinyl. Remember a

> It is actually cheaper to put out a cd than a piece of vinyl. Remember a > cd can hold 74 min. Vinyl comes no where near this. For the same price > that I can press vinyl I can press cds and be able to put more music on > it. So price per minute of music is cheaper for a cd. Believe me that > matters. Next, a lot of places will actually price cd pressings cheaper > than vinyl pressings. why? because it is easier to press a cd.

Price/min has no place here. All the large labels (Skam, MaS, Schematic Choco Ind) are mostly releasing 12" singles or EPs. If these were CD they won't magically become a full length. It would still be a CD single. All I know is here in MD the cost of manufacturing a 12" is vastly cheaper than a CDS. For the same price I could get between 100-200 more 12s than CDs depending on my press size. numb

quoted 16 lines Price/min has no place here. All the large labels (Skam, MaS, Schematic Choco

> > Price/min has no place here. All the large labels (Skam, MaS, Schematic Choco > > Ind) are mostly releasing 12" singles or EPs. If these were CD they won't > > magically become a full length. It would still be a CD single. All I know is > > here in MD the cost of manufacturing a 12" is vastly cheaper than a CDS. For > > the same price I could get between 100-200 more 12s than CDs depending on my > > press size. > > slow day at work... > > average price to press 1000 cds with 2 colors (no cases etc..): 750 > max: 74 min > > good price to press 1000 pieces of 12 inch vinyl: 1045 > max: 22 min per side. > > above price includes: plating and mastering

The problem with CD is pressing less than 1000.

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Andrew Hime wrote:

quoted 1 line The problem with CD is pressing less than 1000.

> The problem with CD is pressing less than 1000.

I am pressing 500. Average price is about 650 for that. I am getting cheaper. Come on people do some research on the web and you will find the answers to your questions.... (hell, the url I sent listed as an option 500 cds) Most places offer 500. Getting less becomes difficult though. again, sorry for the non idm content. -daniel

quoted 8 lines From: Adam J Weitzman

> From: Adam J Weitzman > Subject: Re: (idm) burning turntables > > "christian a. h." wrote: > > > could we please have another frisbee release? > > Very good point.

thanks..

quoted 8 lines you know what would be cool? a 2CD set (not limited) with

> > you know what would be cool? a 2CD set (not limited) with > > select tracks from skam, mas, mask, v/vm, markant, chocolate > > industries, isophlux, schematic, compost, suction, mego, etc.. > > all containing 'previously out of print or unavailable' material. > > You mean like _0161_, _Skampler_, _Compost_50_, _The_Stranger_, _Loraine_, > _Plug_Research_And_Development_ , _Blip,_Bleep_ or _Picknick_mit_Hermann!_ ? >

yeah i've got 0161, Skampler, Picknick mit Hermann and Loraine. ('FIVE' on sabotage is a very good compilation as well..)

quoted 4 lines These things exist at some level, but at the end of the day, we all want

> These things exist at some level, but at the end of the day, we all want > everything. Would you be satisfied with a comp that had, say, three random > MASK tracks, or would you still want someone to help you obtain the rest of > the tracks? I thought so.

think not sir adam. i'd be satisfied with a double CD with groups from various labels and styles. not just skam-ish or mego-ish. i don't need help nor am i looking for help in obtaining all the MASK tracks. my 'debate' so to speak is about the ethics involved in burning (for free) out of print material that would of otherwise been of no profit to the label or artist. not bootlegs or whatever that people would sell over the internet. i send so and so a CDR in a bubblepack with $1.00. they burn <place label name here> #00P (out of print forever and always..) to CDR and re-use the bubblepack i sent them and the $1.00 for postage. done deal. if the label wants to get all pissy, well, that's their right. (ethically and legally) how about a 'stop your bitching' 2CD release in cooperation by any label reps or artists who happen to be reading any of these threads. (a 'proper' and legal release with copyright clearance..) no 'fancy' packaging, braille, hand written messages or funky colored CDs. save the money on pressing the actual material. just an idea. an idea so great, i posted it to this list. up next: SKAM limited baseball caps. punish your machine, christian -- " Old Fashioned Technology in Newly Fashioned Ways... " ICQ# 15688864

And I'd bet even in these days we'll still be having these damn vinyl arguments.

quoted 4 lines One day it will be the year 2399 and compact discs and vinyl will mean

> One day it will be the year 2399 and compact discs and vinyl will mean > nothing. > All you have to do is say: "computer... earth music... genre: electronic... > Funkstorung."