IDM Mailing Archive

1997-11-26 14:59lwtcdi>Now for the cursed question, the one that is really at the heart of every >STUPID argumen

From:: lwtcdi <graham@lwtcdi.prestel.co.uk>
To:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.org>, grey <greyrose@nervosa.sf.ca.us>
Date:: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:59:40 +0000
Subject:: (idm) IDM Breakdown Gets A Prodding

quoted 2 lines Now for the cursed question, the one that is really at the heart of every

>Now for the cursed question, the one that is really at the heart of every >STUPID argument on this list: What is IDM?

No, please, don't doweeeeet...

quoted 1 line What makes music intelligent?

>What makes music intelligent?

Have mercy...

quoted 1 line Now, the second part: dance.

>Now, the second part: dance.

Aararrggh...

quoted 1 line I won't linger here too long.

>I won't linger here too long.

Eiiaarrooogggh...

quoted 1 line So, what does that give us? Subtle electronic-based music.

>So, what does that give us? Subtle electronic-based music.

Bwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhh!!! My mind has melted. Please, breaking down the IDM tag achieves nothing! IDM doesn't mean anything in terms of semantics. It's a nice little label for a nice little cross section of music, but as with all labels there is confusion as to what music actually falls into the category. The best labels are the ones that mean nothing semantically, ie Hip-hop Jazz and the like because people can't disect the language they always have to refer to them referencing 'actual music', which makes things much more interesting... ie I don't like hip-hop because I heard that Puffy Daddy record... The crap ones are Big-beat Drum and Bass (Jungle was much better - as it said nothing about the music) IDM (the worst, IMO). ie I don't like big-beat because its got a big beat and I don't like big beats... As for the Prod, the first two LPs still remain classics but... Firestarter = Amusing, but essentially shit. Come To Daddy (the track) = Amusing, but essentially shit. And what makes popular music shit (apart from it sounding shit)? One word - overkill. There's nothing worse than hearing a record over and over and over again on the radio, TV, blasting from some tacky clothing store etc. I didn't buy The Fat Of The Land, because I was fed up of seeing that circus reject everywhere, and so I saw fit to spend my money elsewhere. Fuck the music, it may well be great, but there's no rush to own it. I'll get it in five years when all the hype is over and I can see the music for what it is. And no, that's not elitism, it's just a will to be a little bit different (not alienation, just making good conversation). If everyone went out and bought the new Prod CD, it'd be like the bloody Stepford Wives or summat. It's not far off this already, so I'm steering well clear before I suddenly feel like getting a tongue piercing for no apparent reason. I'm a flame-starter, twisted flame-starter. (woo-woo-woo-woo woo woo) Yeeeaaaaahhhh. See ya, Gb. _______________________________________________________________________ Sammy Rawlins' "VIRTUAL JUKEBOX" Netscape Only (For Now) RA's & WAVs of *cylob* *squarepusher* *full cycle* *turn on* *lemon d* *etc* ----> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/8587/4musjuke.htm plus The Busted Worldview of "LOOK WHAT THE CAT DRAGGED IN" _______________ http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7691 ____________________

1997-11-27 16:36greyOn Wed, 26 Nov 1997, lwtcdi wrote: > No, please, don't doweeeeet... > > Have mercy... > >

From:: grey <greyrose@nervosa.sf.ca.us>
To:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:36:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject:: (idm) Re: IDM Breakdown Gets A Prodding
Reply to:: (idm) IDM Breakdown Gets A Prodding

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, lwtcdi wrote:

quoted 5 lines No, please, don't doweeeeet...

> No, please, don't doweeeeet... > > Have mercy... > > Aararrggh...

quoted 19 lines Eiiaarrooogggh...

> Eiiaarrooogggh... > > Bwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhh!!! > > My mind has melted. > > Please, breaking down the IDM tag achieves nothing! IDM doesn't mean > anything in terms of semantics. It's a nice little label for a nice > little cross section of music, but as with all labels there is confusion > as to what music actually falls into the category. The best labels are > the ones that mean nothing semantically, ie > > Hip-hop > Jazz > and the like > > because people can't disect the language they always have to refer to > them referencing 'actual music', which makes things much more > interesting...

I will agree to the end that labels are for the most part shit. The point I was making was that genrefying music, or trying to say what and what isn't IDM is totally useless unless you have a definition of what IDM is. IDM has very, very fuzzy boundaries, and I was just using the name as a useful basis for a description.

quoted 1 line ie I don't like hip-hop because I heard that Puffy Daddy record...

> ie I don't like hip-hop because I heard that Puffy Daddy record...

I guess my problem with that is when someone brings up DJ Spooky and someone screams "no hip hop, this is IDM!" as if the lines were that clearly drawn.

quoted 11 lines As for the Prod, the first two LPs still remain classics but...

> As for the Prod, the first two LPs still remain classics but... > > Firestarter = Amusing, but essentially shit. > > Come To Daddy (the track) = Amusing, but essentially shit. > > And what makes popular music shit (apart from it sounding shit)? One > word - overkill. There's nothing worse than hearing a record over and > over and over again on the radio, TV, blasting from some tacky clothing > store etc. I didn't buy The Fat Of The Land, because I was fed up of > seeing that circus reject everywhere, and so I saw fit to spend my money

I see your point here, I'm as annoyed with anyone with overkill, I was talking to someone recently and made the statement that if you hear anything, even a song you love, 10,000 times on the radio, you're going to start to hate it. The parts you never quite liked become abhorant.

quoted 2 lines elsewhere. Fuck the music, it may well be great, but there's no rush to

> elsewhere. Fuck the music, it may well be great, but there's no rush to > own it. I'll get it in five years when all the hype is over and I can

I always cringe when I see someone say "fuck the music." True, the music isn't going anywhere, that's to be sure, and there's a hell of a lot of music to explore. But my gripe wasn't with people not being interested in it, but in BASHING those who are.

quoted 3 lines see the music for what it is. And no, that's not elitism, it's just a

> see the music for what it is. And no, that's not elitism, it's just a > will to be a little bit different (not alienation, just making good > conversation).

quoted 4 lines If everyone went out and bought the new Prod CD, it'd be like the bloody

> If everyone went out and bought the new Prod CD, it'd be like the bloody > Stepford Wives or summat. It's not far off this already, so I'm steering > well clear before I suddenly feel like getting a tongue piercing for no > apparent reason.

I still don't see how that's really all that different from everyone rushing out like sheep to get the new Aphex record (which I wouldn't have spent my money on, personally. But then, according to my friend, I'm a 'candy eater' and don't appreciate difficult music enough. I guess I'm not very IDM!)

quoted 2 lines I'm a flame-starter, twisted flame-starter. (woo-woo-woo-woo woo woo)

> I'm a flame-starter, twisted flame-starter. (woo-woo-woo-woo woo woo) > Yeeeaaaaahhhh.

Heh. This is not directed at lwtcdi, but why does everything have to be a flame? Why can't people respond in a normal fashion and support their opinions? I know damned well this thread has been well hashed out, but mostly in terms of "sucks!" "doesn't suck!" I'm not a pugalistic person, but I knew damned well the flak that would fly from this thread. What I hoped to see were some of the justifications people have for being so bloody closed minded about their concepts of "IDM" and what gets thrown into it and what doesn't. What I have seen a lot of is people bringing up piercings as if they were a musical quality. - -- greyrose@nervosa.sf.ca.us

(idm) IDM Breakdown Gets A Prodding