IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 2 lines It's called groove. This LP has the funk. That's what the Plug LP and most

> It's called groove. This LP has the funk. That's what the Plug LP and most > (decent) d'n'b is about.

funk is a 70's concept, that yuppies like to collect on compact disc re-issues, and precious people shake their rumps to. i like to think that the driving force of *good* d'n'b is the unbridled exploration of DRUMS and BASS to represent the urban screen and times. now it can be said that there is plenty of groove in the harshest Dillinja track, but only if you are open to re-definitions and listen to intent (without the usual ad agency brand expectations)! maybe you should give the Adam F "Circles" Remix a go if you like the jazz club preset.. i sold off my Plug LP because imho it wasn't as adventurous as the previous EP's, and the novelty of listening to an amalgam of sample cd breaks and borrowed bits and pieces from 95 jungle (DBC is basically a DJ SS rip) wore off in due time. not to say that there aren't some choice moments in there. i still like Phat Lab Nightmare, and especially the Redone EP for Luke Vibert's best releases! at the moment though, he seems to be suffering an extended term of blunted creativity in MoWax limbo. stay sleepin'..

quoted 3 lines I think both are equally complete and are probably the two best LPs

> I think both are equally complete and are probably the two best LPs > releases of last year (along with Red Snapper). Even RDJ loses it a bit > with the last track Logon Rock Witch.

the album is an autobiography of sorts. listen harder grasshopper.. [flaky]

On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, lwtcdi wrote:

quoted 8 lines Don't be so pendantic. I mention the word 'funk' once (flippantly) in a

> Don't be so pendantic. I mention the word 'funk' once (flippantly) in a > posting and you're straining at the least like a rabid rottweiler. As > you may well understand (or possibly not judging from your hostile > reaction) I was refering to the 'funk' in the music, not literally as a > genre, but as a concept of the repetetive, addictive rhythm in the music > (or groove again if you prefer - although I hasten to use this tag word > as you'll probably jump on it and insist on giving me its full > dictionary definition).

i never meant a personal attack, so don't take it that way. however, i was just pointing out that the general connotations with `funk' and `groove' have already been cornered by commercial music interests in most people's perceptions; and that the Plug LP uses a lot of sounds which play straight into this safe consensus..

quoted 2 lines Oh yeah, real bloody catchy that. I'll remember to use that one next

> Oh yeah, real bloody catchy that. I'll remember to use that one next > time I want to put something in a simple consise manner...

no, don't because you would fail. i'm not your accountant, so there's no loss. words form meanings. it's information. how did i hurt you, sir, by expressing my own opinions with passion? i simply try to impart something more than just rote learning; in faith that there are many others out there who bother to *think* as well as read. why does everything have to be spelled out in big fucking plastic letters?

quoted 2 lines Also, what the hell is an 'urban screen'? Sounds like some form of

> Also, what the hell is an 'urban screen'? Sounds like some form of > medical aparatus.

it is not a form of medical apparatus (as far as i know). many current d'n'b artists have mentioned in interviews, that they take elements from city life as an influence for their music. furthermore, krust, roni size, photek, t-power, and dom angus (at least) cite a relation and interest in film soundtracks with their work. so sorry, for not asking your express permission before using any poetic license..

quoted 3 lines Thirdly, 'unbridled exploration' - to me - does not necessarily make for

> Thirdly, 'unbridled exploration' - to me - does not necessarily make for > good music. Sounds like it might be veering a little too close towards > overindulgent noodling.

it makes for more possibilities for interesting (engaging) music. i would rather veer a little away from established cliches. what crime is jazz?

quoted 7 lines On the whole, you seem too caught up in labels. Drum & Bass doesn't just

> On the whole, you seem too caught up in labels. Drum & Bass doesn't just > have to contain drums and bass just because that's what it is called. > Plenty of great old jungle used to take great swathes of melodic 'hooks' > from other peoples records and this was neither drum or bass, and plenty > use strings, atmospherics and tons of other stuff besides. I believe you > use what works in a track, not just predefined concepts of drums and > bass...

you misread me like yesterday's mixmag. great old jungle like Sesam E's Treet was not drum 'n' bass. that's why it's called acid house, happy hardcore, breakbeat, you name it. besides, where do you get off being so patronizing? please go and listen to some Pierre Henry, Xenakis, and Merzbow; then we'll have a neat little discussion on `predefined concepts' with regards to strings and atmospherics. sheesh..

quoted 8 lines What in the screaming hell are you on about? You blatantly assume that

> What in the screaming hell are you on about? You blatantly assume that > because I like the Plug LP that I cannot appreciate other forms of > jungle which you see as more underground (therefore branding you an > elistist jungle snob, which like other forms of musically snobbery, this > list could well do without). Just for your information, it was only the > other week on this list I was posting about Dillinja (and many others ie > Krust, Swift, Decoder etc) and saying how wicked Acid Trak was, so maybe > you should keep up with what's going on a little more, eh?

what we have here is a failure in communication. i never made any *qualitative* judgements comparing the Plug LP and Dillinja. nor did i make any vindictive remarks about your musical preferences; which you are so ready and willing to write in return! you would be a saint, if you weren't so rude, and we could all well do without the rampant unconstructive persecution of personal opinions. everyone's a winner baby.. as for chest-beating, i've been lurking on the IDM list in one form or another since 1994. i get the digests now, and even contemplated unsubscribing, because these days the amount of belligerent bumfluff and idol worship seems to outweigh genuinely critical discussion of new interesting electronica. to those that post reviews, i salute you!

quoted 6 lines See, you're embarassing yourself again. What 'jazz club preset'? Where

> See, you're embarassing yourself again. What 'jazz club preset'? Where > did I ever mention this in my post? See if you can spot it fellow > IDMers, 'cos I'll be fucked if I can! I think the words 'jumping to > conclusions' are particularly appropriate here, yet another trait of > someone perpetually on the defensive of their little corner of music > which no-one else is allowed to encroach on.

it's a joke son. maybe you'll get it, maybe you won't (but that is life). give up the gaz or black sabbath already. just one clue, because you need it: surround yourself with sounds. i'm not precious about music at all, if anything i'm still waiting for more people to bust a few holes in the walls so i can have a better view..

quoted 8 lines As for your mention the Adam F remix, I already have bought it (so

> As for your mention the Adam F remix, I already have bought it (so > you're too late on the old reccomendation front, I'm afraid) and yes, I > like this too (and didn't get around to buying it the first time - oh, > the shame of it). Is this a crime? Oh dear, it was re-released on > Positiva with some new remixes and a different sleeve and isn't as good > as the original F-Jam release? Or maybe you think it was never any good > in the first place. At least that's what you'll probably say now, seeing > as jazzy Bukem-esque jungle is uncool at the moment...

i mentioned the Circles Remix, in earnest, because it's a mailing list and somebody *else* out there might want to check it out if they are into that `live' jazzy Plug LP sound. for the record, i like(d) the track and can see the Andy C Remix being a big favourite on the dancefloor but it's not something that i would buy. see i don't have heaps of cash to blow, and when i do, i like to get shit to get deep to at home! regards Bukem, i always gave his mix cds and tracks a listen but never clicked. problem i have is that most GLR recordings seem to belong entirely within 1 set of token samples (horizon), 1 set of production values (mid range), 1 feel and tempo (breezy), from 1 genre of `dance' music (jungle). Bukem himself has done fuck all the last few years, except for touring and magazine spreads. Good Looking is just as niche as No U-Turn, however up-marketed for supposedly `sensitive' and `intelligent' people! personally prefer Seba & LoTek, as well as Tango if you have to go there.. i was one of those puppies who grew up listening to folks like Sonic Youth, New Order, Public Enemy, and Einsturzende Neubauten to name a few. i invite disruption with open arms, and look upon rehashing of conventions with a suspicious eye. that is my own prediliction, i hope you understand..

quoted 3 lines In what way? Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my mind Mr James never said

> In what way? Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my mind Mr James never said > this was an autobiographical album. Maybe you're just making assumptions > again...

i am making an acute observation. feel free to ignore it..

quoted 7 lines I hate people who say this! I know, I'll just put Logon Rock Witch on

> I hate people who say this! I know, I'll just put Logon Rock Witch on > and crouch by the speaker, listening intently for that extra bit of > excellence that is on all the other tracks on the LP, but that *I* am > obviously missing out on. Ah, there it is! Yes, you were right all > along, it is sheer brilliance and not just a silly bunch of Kangaroo > noises, toy whistles and church organs after all! Thanks for the > enlightenment, pal!

KANGAROO NOiSES + TOY WHiSTLES + CHURCH ORGANS = [?] you almost got it. nobody said enlightenment was easy.. [flaky]

At 01:19 14/10/97 +0100, lwtcdi wrote:

quoted 5 lines What in the screaming hell are you on about? You blatantly assume that

>What in the screaming hell are you on about? You blatantly assume that >because I like the Plug LP that I cannot appreciate other forms of >jungle which you see as more underground (therefore branding you an >elistist jungle snob, which like other forms of musically snobbery, this >list could well do without).

Some might say that the phrase 'intelligent dance music' is elitist..... Jon - Jon Green zcapn33@ucl.ac.uk They're back: "F**k the Millenium" see http://www.2k.org.uk

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Jon Green wrote:

quoted 1 line Some might say that the phrase 'intelligent dance music' is elitist.....

> Some might say that the phrase 'intelligent dance music' is elitist.....

Yeah, but does IDM really mean Intelligent Dance Music anymore? I mean, the scope of this mailing list is so broad most of the time. I couldn't imagine even *attempting* to dance to a lot of the stuff that's discussed here. Frankly, IDM has become a generic term. Sorta like KFC - do ya really think there's any chicken in there? :-) Greg np - Speedy J "Public Energy No. 1" (speaking of stuff you can't dance to...)