IDM Mailing Archive

regarding all this premade sample stuff (rebirth, etc). sure, i like some of the sounds it makes... but how can an artist feel good about the music he made if none of the samples are his own? [sample creation is part of the process (unless you are quite lame).] i know i can't. nowadays i make 90% of my own, and the rest i make sure to mess around with so that they are not recognizable (unless hihats or bassdrums, etc). and in jungle: cutting up loops is ok, nice even. but cutting them up in the same way w/o variation? why! sqp does a nice job of music creation with these loops. but metalheadz people.. what is creative/intelligent about playing the same sped-up loops over & over w/ some background noises? [note: i have only heard anything off metalheadz once.. perhaps it is a bad example.. but you know the type of jungle i mean...] .... grav

oh no! Not the 'what is/is not intelligent jungle/drumnbass thread'! my opinion: jungle=metalheadz=reinforced=looking good=club friendly, often repetitive looped so as to sustain a vibe. Jungle is Rasta. Jungle is dubplates. Jungle is ghetto. Jungle is rough. Jungle grew out of hardcore breakbeat/rave and added gangsta attitude. Although similar in many respects, IMHO the intended vibe of what you may call boring jungle is totally different than that of the new guys: drumnbass=Plug=Squarpusher=Muziq(now anyways)=TPower=Boymerang=Subtropic=(insert name here, as everyone is doing it). Drumnbass can be dance friendly, although the artists most often talked about on this list who do takes on Jungle rarely record music that I would think is intended for club people. Drumnbass is for geeky white guys on IDM;). Honestly, Drumnbass is a 'filtered' version of jungle-not bad at all, but more suited for discussing (like the merits of TJ's amen tweakage) and/or home listening, unless you're a weirdo DJ who doesn't give a fuck and plays whatever (I wish their were more of them). DnB artists *incorporate* elements of Jungle (most obviously drum loops) but then apply these elements to their own stylistic needs. I think AFX is the most extreme example of this. Many people use the terms Jungle and Drumnbass interchangably, which is fine with me, but if I had to be picky, I'd use the above as explanation. Let's not get into all the dnb/jungle subgenres... peace Nate On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, chris r graves wrote:

quoted 21 lines regarding all this premade sample stuff (rebirth, etc).

> regarding all this premade sample stuff (rebirth, etc). > sure, i like some of the sounds it makes... > but how can an artist feel good about the music he made > if none of the samples are his own? [sample creation is > part of the process (unless you are quite lame).] > i know i can't. nowadays i make 90% of my own, and the > rest i make sure to mess around with so that they are not > recognizable (unless hihats or bassdrums, etc). > > and in jungle: cutting up loops is ok, nice even. but > cutting them up in the same way w/o variation? why! > sqp does a nice job of music creation with these loops. > but metalheadz people.. what is creative/intelligent about > playing the same sped-up loops over & over w/ some background > noises? [note: i have only heard anything off metalheadz > once.. perhaps it is a bad example.. but you know the type > of jungle i mean...] > > .... > grav >

Nate Harrison Digital Magician Inc. www.digimagician.com nate@digimagician.com 313.994.7316

On Wed, 20 August 1997, at 23:54:48, chris r graves wrote:

quoted 5 lines regarding all this premade sample stuff (rebirth, etc).

> regarding all this premade sample stuff (rebirth, etc). > sure, i like some of the sounds it makes... > but how can an artist feel good about the music he made > if none of the samples are his own? [sample creation is > part of the process (unless you are quite lame).]

hee hee! I disagree wholeheartedly. Listen to 'from within' by pete namlook & ritchie hawtin. Some beautiful music made with, gasp! -- standard analog drum machines & synths! no samples, they're not lame. I hope they feel good about the music, as I quite enjoy it. Nothing else like it, to be sure! I used to think the samples made the music, but the artist makes the music. --brett p.s. I heard the promo of metalheadz (somehow we ended up with it at work) and it blew chunks. good example ;)

quoted 3 lines [note: i have only heard anything off metalheadz

> [note: i have only heard anything off metalheadz > once.. perhaps it is a bad example.. but you know the type > of jungle i mean...]

On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 00:46:59 +0000 () "Nate Harrison [Digital Magician Inc]" <nate@digimagician.com> writes:

quoted 2 lines oh no! Not the 'what is/is not intelligent jungle/drumnbass thread'!

> >oh no! Not the 'what is/is not intelligent jungle/drumnbass thread'!

ope! i didn't mean to revive any dead threads.. :)

quoted 3 lines my opinion:

>my opinion: > >jungle=metalheadz=reinforced=looking good=club friendly, often

repetitive

quoted 2 lines looped so as to sustain a vibe. Jungle is Rasta. Jungle is

>looped so as to sustain a vibe. Jungle is Rasta. Jungle is >dubplates. Jungle is ghetto. Jungle is rough. Jungle grew out of

hardcore

quoted 9 lines breakbeat/rave and added gangsta attitude. Although similar in many

>breakbeat/rave and added gangsta attitude. Although similar in many >respects, IMHO the intended vibe of what you may call boring jungle is >totally different than that of the new guys: > >drumnbass=Plug=Squarpusher=Muziq(now anyways)=TPower=Boymerang= >Subtropic=(insert name here, as everyone is doing it). > >Drumnbass can be dance friendly, although the artists most often >talked about on this list who do takes on Jungle rarely record music

that I

quoted 1 line would think is intended for club people. Drumnbass is for geeky white

>would think is intended for club people. Drumnbass is for geeky white

guys

quoted 4 lines on IDM;). Honestly, Drumnbass is a 'filtered' version of jungle-not bad

>on IDM;). Honestly, Drumnbass is a 'filtered' version of jungle-not bad >at all, but more suited for discussing (like the merits of TJ's amen >tweakage) and/or home listening, unless you're a weirdo DJ who >doesn't give a fuck and plays whatever (I wish their were more of them).

DnB

quoted 2 lines artists *incorporate* elements of Jungle (most obviously drum loops)

>artists *incorporate* elements of Jungle (most obviously drum loops) >but then apply these elements to their own stylistic needs. I think AFX

is

quoted 5 lines the most extreme example of this.

>the most extreme example of this. > >Many people use the terms Jungle and Drumnbass interchangably, which >is fine with me, but if I had to be picky, I'd use the above as >explanation.

cool plan! the great idm god hath spoken: Henceforth in the IDM Werld 'Jungle' refers only to the repetitive non-"intelligent" breakbeat-based-music while the other stuff that we like more will be known as and spoken of as 'Drum and Bass.'

quoted 1 line Let's not get into all the dnb/jungle subgenres...

>Let's not get into all the dnb/jungle subgenres...

ok. genres suck. .... grav

On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Brett McCormick <brett@chicken.org> writes:

quoted 14 lines On Wed, 20 August 1997, at 23:54:48, chris r graves wrote:

>On Wed, 20 August 1997, at 23:54:48, chris r graves wrote: > >> regarding all this premade sample stuff (rebirth, etc). >> sure, i like some of the sounds it makes... >> but how can an artist feel good about the music he made >> if none of the samples are his own? [sample creation is >> part of the process (unless you are quite lame).] > >hee hee! I disagree wholeheartedly. Listen to 'from within' by pete >namlook & ritchie hawtin. Some beautiful music made with, gasp! -- >standard analog drum machines & synths! no samples, they're not lame. >I hope they feel good about the music, as I quite enjoy it. Nothing >else like it, to be sure! I used to think the samples made the music, >but the artist makes the music.

good point. to refine mine: making your own samples is surely the way to go in most cases. sure, there are unlimited possibilities with the standard drum kit sounds of kick, snare, hh's. but isn't it so much more interesting to listen to when you don't immediately recognize the samples.. or even, you've never heard them before? i can see that using recognizable samples/sound in an innovative way is also good, but uncommon. and i didn't just mean making your own samples. making your own sounds too.. analog synths don't necessarily make samples, but they can create an unlimited # of sounds.. this is much better than using a jungle drum loop and playing a female vocal in the background from a sample cd, and none of the sounds are your own creation. (which is what metalheadz seems to do, to me anyway)..

quoted 2 lines p.s. I heard the promo of metalheadz (somehow we ended up with it at

>p.s. I heard the promo of metalheadz (somehow we ended up with it at >work) and it blew chunks. good example ;)

good :) .... grav