IDM Mailing Archive

On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, David Ross wrote:

quoted 3 lines Okay. In 1990, I listened (and liked) NIN (among other things.) In

> Okay. In 1990, I listened (and liked) NIN (among other things.) In > 1997 I listen to (and like) drum n bass (among other things). Why can't > Trent Reznor's tastes evolve in the same way mine have?

I see your point but I think there's a difference: Trent is unfortunately in that position where as an artist he is expected to come up with something 'groundbreaking' since his previous output has at least in my eyes been somewhat interesting. I don't care that that every teenybop bought downward spiral-it's a damn good album which does things I hadn't heard before. However, his new song is something I have heard before-Trent singing on top of some piano/guitar distortion with a chopped up breakbeat over the top. To me this signals that he is no longer a 'leader' or 'innovator' but rather a follower, which doesn't interest me at all. The song doesn't push any limits (ala Aphex Twin in terms of the debate between well done esotericism vs. garbage re the new album). The song is just catchy enough that those unfamiliar with IDM, Drum n'bass etc will snatch it up as the 'new sound', propelling our music further into the limelight when you and I both know it's the same schlock that TR put out years ago... my .02, Nate

quoted 2 lines

> >

Nate Harrison DIGITAL MAGICIAN http://www.globalwise.com/DIGIMAGICIAN/ WWW Authors and Electronic Imaging Specialists

On 02-Feb-97, David Ross wrote:

quoted 4 lines Perhaps you think _Perfect Drug_ is a poor song. Fine, but that doesn't

>Perhaps you think _Perfect Drug_ is a poor song. Fine, but that doesn't >make it illegitimate. (Hell, all the discussion on idm about how poor >the RDJ album is doesn't make Aphex Twin an illegitimate artist...does >it?)

RDJ album is not poor at all (IMHO). At first I felt like that too, but after about 20 listenings I actually started to like it. The tracks have the best structure he has ever had in his tracks and they're just short enough not to make you hate the bloody drums which make you nervous. As someone else on this list already pointed out to someone who was accusing the tracks being too short, would you really like to listen to them any longer than they last? Not me.. they're just fine as they are. I've liked both the HABs and RDJ Album, but I certainly hope his next record won't be aphexy drum'n'base but something totally new. By releasing Richard D. James Album he showed everyone what he's capable of doing with the machines. -- .Mikko

On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, David Ross wrote:

quoted 1 line Are musicians not allowed to change _their_ tastes in music?

> Are musicians not allowed to change _their_ tastes in music?

Yes, but they have to change the band name so people don't get confused. --Mark

Dave writes:

quoted 2 lines Perhaps you think _Perfect Drug_ is a poor song. Fine, but that doesn't

>Perhaps you think _Perfect Drug_ is a poor song. Fine, but that doesn't >make it illegitimate.

I finally heard this on the radio last night, and while it's not a great song, I thought the distorted Skinny Puppy meets Squarepusher beats were at least *different*. Dave

On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, David Ross wrote:

quoted 3 lines Okay. In 1990, I listened (and liked) NIN (among other things.) In

> Okay. In 1990, I listened (and liked) NIN (among other things.) In > 1997 I listen to (and like) drum n bass (among other things). Why can't > Trent Reznor's tastes evolve in the same way mine have?

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 21:09:21 -0500 (EST) From: Nathanel Karl Harrison <nateh@orchard.washtenaw.cc.mi.us> I see your point but I think there's a difference: Trent is unfortunately in that position where as an artist he is expected to come up with something 'groundbreaking' since his previous output has at least in my eyes been somewhat interesting. I don't care that that every teenybop bought downward spiral-it's a damn good album which does things I hadn't heard before. However, his new song is something I have heard before-Trent singing on top of some piano/guitar distortion with a chopped up breakbeat over the top. To me this signals that he is no longer a 'leader' or 'innovator' but rather a follower, which doesn't interest me at all. The song doesn't push any limits (ala Aphex Twin in terms of the debate between well done esotericism vs. garbage re the new album). The song is just catchy enough that those unfamiliar with IDM, Drum n'bass etc will snatch it up as the 'new sound', propelling our music further into the limelight when you and I both know it's the same schlock that TR put out years ago... my .02, Nate Nate, I understand where your coming from...BUT, one must understand the multi-layers of the listening audience. I don't think that many people outside the electronic music arena have had a chance to listen to jungle et al, so to the average listener, this would be a new and fresh direction. I feel that the IDM list is still very underground and an eclectic taste...so try not to be too hard on Trent and the boys and understand that they are in a very tight position because of their stardom. Fredster

quoted 10 lines Nate, I understand where your coming from...BUT, one must understand the

> Nate, I understand where your coming from...BUT, one must understand the > multi-layers of the listening audience. I don't think that many people > outside the electronic music arena have had a chance to listen to jungle et > al, so to the average listener, this would be a new and fresh direction. I > feel that the IDM list is still very underground and an eclectic taste...so > try not to be too hard on Trent and the boys and understand that they are > in a very tight position because of their stardom. > > Fredster >

I'm not necassarily ripping on Trent Reznor, I'm just bummed because all that I've heard and read about the man he seemed like an individual, truly creative. He seemed to want to do things differently. Well stardom has caught up with him, and now he's stuck (much like the flood of 'alternabands' before him U2, REM, Pearl Jam etc) because he has initiated a musical style that he knows will give him success but is ultimately a rip off of something already done not only by himself (to do a song like 'Perfect Drug' with its weakass refrain after doing cool stuff like 'Broken' and 'Fixed' plus downward spiral is beyond me) but all the others we talk about here.. It's not like he's some true practicioner of techno, really interested in experimental electronica/d&b, he's just a smart guy who not more than a year ago said he disliked techno but who now realizes 'whoa, there's actually a few people in techno doing some really cool shit-I better do the same thing." The fact that he says Luke Vibert has influenced him tells me he's on his way to being a commercial has been...The video for perfect drug is the finishing touch-more pseudo morbid bullshit that is nothing more than a catchy rip off of famous artists from the past...(I mean visual artists like the surrealists/dadaists). Ok I lied I am ripping on Trent. I think deep doen he's knows he's not leading edge, he's not out there. He's right in the middle of relatively underground (IDM) and commercial but he's going the wrong way-. I guess I can't blame him, fame does crazy shit to people... like I said he's stuck. I guess a part of me wishes all this stuff would stay the way it is now...relativley unknown, but I know that won't happen...techno/IDM has already started on it's journey to popularity...I hope it's a long one. Nate