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Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?

6 messages · 4 participants · spans 3 days · search this subject
1997-01-22 16:48Erkki Rautio (idm) Underground? Techno?
└─ 1997-01-23 21:30Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
1997-01-22 17:38Chris Sattinger Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
1997-01-24 04:07collin mckinney Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
└─ 1997-01-25 22:19Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
1997-01-24 04:12Chris Sattinger Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
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1997-01-22 16:48Erkki Rautio<from http://www.c8.com/c8/intart/underground.html> "Underground Techno" is a phrase that
From:
Erkki Rautio
To:
anAlFiXation
Date:
Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:48:34 +0200 (EET)
Subject:
(idm) Underground? Techno?
permalink · <199701221648.SAA23625@vuokko.uta.fi>
<from http://www.c8.com/c8/intart/underground.html> "Underground Techno" is a phrase that used to mean something good but now belongs in the cesspool of current Pop culture. "Underground" is a much used and abused word these days. If were to believe all that we read, just about every Techno zine, Web site, party, record label and artist is "underground". Look at the title of this small collection of electronically spread information (www.c8.com). If youre quick enough youll see the "U" word there and, you know, its total crap. It wont be up there long. Traditionally, the "Underground" has been seen as the innovative few who lead the way, the artists who create the new outrageous sounds and ideas that, over time, creep into our subconscious and slowly become acceptable to us, the mass consuming public. Take a look at Punk in the UK. Back in 76 it was despised by all "right minded" people as being offensive, with its funny coloured and styled hair, trashy clothes and anarchic attitude to life, it was "Underground" enough. Now, it seems all so tame, theres hardly any difference between todays Britpop and the Punk Rock of 78. The same applies to Techno, or what is called Techno these days. Gabba was a new and exciting thing in 93/94, insanely hard and fast and rightly classed as one of the sounds of the "Underground". People had never heard anything like it. If innovation is prerequisite to being "Underground" in the traditional sense then, these days, Gabba has nothing to do with it. The innovators have moved on as they always do, continually exploring new, fresh fields of sound whilst Gabba, that subversive flavour of a few years ago, gradually grows in popularity, banging the same old, tired 909 drum just a little faster. Anybody that advertises Gabba (or any other sort of Techno) as "Underground" is lying theyll be Gabba on Top of the Pops soon enough. The "U" word has been hijacked by the mass marketing men because, in their eyes, it has connotations of illicit coolness, that cachet of anti- authoritarian rebelliousness beloved by every record buying, post-pubescent teenager the world over. The "U" word sells, the "U" word is big business. By its very nature, the "Underground" cant be popular but were asked to believe that records that sell in hundreds of thousands, glossy magazines with circulation figures of over 30,000 (in the UK alone) and Web sites accessible to anyone in the world (who is privileged enough!) are "Underground" and the kids just lap it up. Just like some words, such as "Gay", have changed meaning over the years, the "U" word now has no meaning at all, unless it is to signify that the user, every user, of that word is a band wagon jumping, commercial hypocrite. Maybe thats a little unfair, but who of the innovators would call themselves "Underground" when it has all the trendy, shallow implications of a Prodigy tune? Who of the innovators needs any word to describe what they do or make? If somethings truly new then it can have no name. So what of "Techno", that once beloved sound that was so close to my heart? For me, "Techno" has also become a dirty word as its association with the commercial "Underground" gets ever stronger. Dont get me wrong, there are some exquisite tunes being made by geniuses at this very moment, but it chokes me to have the output of labels such as ZTR associated with the banal, crap of The Chemical Brothers under that all encompassing banner of "Techno". As I said, "Underground Techno" is a phrase that used to mean something good but now belongs in the cesspool of current Pop culture. I suggest you laugh disdainfully every time you hear it used. stevvi <stevvi@c8.com>. ------ ekku the maintainer of pHinnWeb - everything u ever wanted to know about Finnish techno scene but were too afraid of the reindeer trerra@uta.fi | http://www.uta.fi/~trerra | http://www.sci.fi/~phinnweb the sore in my soul the mark in my heart her acid reign
1997-01-23 21:30ftodd@netcomuk.co.uk>Gabba was a new and exciting thing in 93/94, >insanely hard and fast and rightly classed
From:
To:
Erkki Rautio
Cc:
anAlFiXation
Date:
Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:30:25 GMT
Subject:
Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
Reply to:
(idm) Underground? Techno?
permalink · <32efcc20.8138511@smtp.netcruiser>
quoted 9 lines Gabba was a new and exciting thing in 93/94,>Gabba was a new and exciting thing in 93/94, >insanely hard and fast and rightly classed as one of the sounds of the >"Underground". People had never heard anything like it. If innovation is >prerequisite to being "Underground" in the traditional sense then, these days, >Gabba has nothing to do with it. The innovators have moved on as they always >do, continually exploring new, fresh fields of sound whilst Gabba, that >subversive flavour of a few years ago, gradually grows in popularity, banging >the same old, tired 909 drum just a little faster. Anybody that advertises >Gabba (or any other sort of Techno) as "Underground" is lying
Underground music is just music that is not mainstream. Gabba IS underground music in the true sense of the word, we will NEVER hear true Gabba on Top Of The Pops and it will always be underground. Hardstep is also pretty much underground and even Happy Hardcore is still underground coz it's just too fast to go mainstream in this country, at least not proper happy hardcore. take it easy _________________ ______ ___________ ___ | / \| \| \ | | | |__ __| | | | |_| | | | | | | |\_ _/ | | | | | | | | |___| \______/|______/|______/ |___|
1997-01-22 17:38Chris Sattinger>As I said, "Underground Techno" is a phrase that used to mean something good >but now bel
From:
Chris Sattinger
To:
Erkki Rautio , anAlFiXation
Date:
Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:38:47 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
permalink · <32e651610272016@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
quoted 5 lines As I said, "Underground Techno" is a phrase that used to mean something good>As I said, "Underground Techno" is a phrase that used to mean something good >but now belongs in the cesspool of current Pop culture. I suggest you laugh >disdainfully every time you hear it used. > > stevvi <stevvi@c8.com>.
Quite right on this subject. The whole C8 website is covered with cool and fairly obscure music stuff. Great graphics (kind of doom like though). There is still a very large and functioning independant label scene, much like there was in rock in the 80s. I favor replacing Underground with Independant. Its a basic statement of business purpose and a statement of what means is being employed to deliver the music to the listener. I do forsee a frenzy of major label signing independant label just like in rock, and that could kill off the distributors (just like in rock) and many of the remaining small labels (who can no longer function independantly without a regular scene of commerce). By then a bunch of young upstarts will be making cooler music than techno anyway. and we'll be old and shit. 10-4 over and out good buddy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Sattinger reprogramming our reality through disco new records coming on : Synewave(jan), Subvoice(feb), Sativae(?) NEW RELEASES - DISCOGRAPHY - INFO http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m082/satti002/ChrisSattinger.html US Techno House Business Resource : http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m082/satti002/DanceLabel.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1997-01-24 04:07collin mckinney> >Underground music is just music that is not mainstream. >Gabba IS underground music in
From:
collin mckinney
To:
Date:
Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:07:10 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
permalink · <v01540b00af0de135db96@[38.26.30.121]>
quoted 8 lines Underground music is just music that is not mainstream.> >Underground music is just music that is not mainstream. >Gabba IS underground music in the true sense of the word, we will >NEVER hear true Gabba on Top Of The Pops and it will always be >underground. Hardstep is also pretty much underground and even Happy >Hardcore is still underground coz it's just too fast to go mainstream >in this country, at least not proper happy hardcore. >
for all that it is worth (and that aint much) um, Rob G (who is about as hardcore as you can get) has had top 10 radio hits in holland that are straight up brooklyn hardcore,so has Lenny Dee. We arent talking about some wack shit like Dj Paul here but real dust smoking,tommy hill, moshpit, jog bra , k dealing hardcore so you may actually hear hardcore on the top of the pops because in some cities it is pop music.... And, a division of Columbia Records has just put out the new DELTA 9 and DOA cd's. There is no way you could argue that those records arent hardcore.... They did this because the last hardcore comp they put out sold tons.....so lookout true underground gabba is coming to a mall near you... personally I think that ftodd is really one of our famous uk lurkers because he is obviously doing such a good job of taking the piss out of everyone on now( the real reason I post anyway)skam radio show mixtape(thanks rob!) the strange organization 445 e. 9th st ny.ny.10009 212.505.3025
1997-01-25 22:19ftodd@netcomuk.co.uk>um, Rob G (who is about as hardcore as you can get) has had top 10 radio hits >in holland
From:
To:
collin mckinney
Cc:
Date:
Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:19:44 GMT
Subject:
Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
permalink · <32ea496e.1321495@smtp.netcruiser>
quoted 6 lines um, Rob G (who is about as hardcore as you can get) has had top 10 radio hits>um, Rob G (who is about as hardcore as you can get) has had top 10 radio hits >in holland that are straight up brooklyn hardcore,so has Lenny Dee. We >arent talking about some wack shit like Dj Paul here but real dust >smoking,tommy hill, moshpit, jog bra , k dealing hardcore so you may >actually hear hardcore on the top of the pops because in some cities it is >pop music....
erm, well maybe I was actually talking about the UK, sorry if I didn't mention that but I did mention Top Of The Pops which is a UK programme. I do realise that HH and Gabba do get in the charts in Holland, but I was talking about the UK. take it easy _________________ ______ ___________ ___ | / \| \| \ | | | |__ __| | | | |_| | | | | | | |\_ _/ | | | | | | | | |___| \______/|______/|______/ |___|
1997-01-24 04:12Chris Sattinger>>Gabba IS underground music in the true sense of the word, we will >>NEVER hear true Gabb
From:
Chris Sattinger
To:
collin mckinney , idm
Date:
Thu, 23 Jan 97 22:12:12 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) Underground? Techno?
permalink · <32e837577520939@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
quoted 5 lines Gabba IS underground music in the true sense of the word, we will>>Gabba IS underground music in the true sense of the word, we will >>NEVER hear true Gabba on Top Of The Pops and it will always be >>underground. Hardstep is also pretty much underground and even Happy >>Hardcore is still underground coz it's just too fast to go mainstream >>in this country, at least not proper happy hardcore.
Anyone notice that Bowie's hit is NOT JUNGLE ..... ITS HAPPY HARDCORE !!! four and the floor and a break, then add geetars.
quoted 10 lines for all that it is worth (and that aint much)>> > >for all that it is worth (and that aint much) > > >um, Rob G (who is about as hardcore as you can get) has had top 10 radio hits >in holland ..... > >And, a division of Columbia Records has just put out the new DELTA 9 and DOA >cd's.
and also Lenny Dee nearly signed to American with Rick Rubin. Atari Teenage Riot is touring with Beck, and are signed to Beastie's label grand royal, vids on mtv. Its just Ministry on a little extra meth. 10-4 over and out good buddy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Sattinger reprogramming our reality through disco new records coming on : Synewave(jan), Subvoice(feb), Sativae(?) NEW RELEASES - DISCOGRAPHY - INFO http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m082/satti002/ChrisSattinger.html US Techno House Business Resource : http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m082/satti002/DanceLabel.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~