IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 4 lines I've always hoped that someday, mass media would really pay

>I've always hoped that someday, mass media would really pay >attention to techno. You know, Jeff Mills on the cover of the >Rolling Stone, Black Dog on Top Of The Pops, that kinda stuff, >thereby exposing more people to (what I consider) good music.

Are you kidding me? The media always knows how to fuck up a good thing. It happens all the time with filmakers who get too much attention: it goes to their heads. I can hardly imagine what it would do to a bunch of introverted, shy, idm musicians. Besides, isn't it hard enough to find your favorite artists back catalog as it is? Fuck everyone else, as long as I can get my hands on the latest Rephlex record without any problem, who cares? /""'' /"'RESH Live and Direct from the G-Spot Orange County, California, USA

quoted 7 lines Excuse me but FUCK this ellitist attitude! Give some respect to

>Excuse me but FUCK this ellitist attitude! Give some respect to >the musicians! Artists slave over bringing people tracks and all >they can say is, "Fuck everyone else as ling as I can get my >record..." Well, what about the starving musician who just wants >to afford to eat and make music? Wouldn't it be nice for them to >get some recognition for their hard work? In your eyes, you'd have >them starve to death by limiting their releases.

I doubt you'd have many artists that agree with you on that one. Somehow I don't think that RDJ, Autechre, FSOL, and all would love to be on the cover of Rolling Stone and have their videos played on MTV twenty times a day. I'm not being ellitist or crying sell-out or saying 'keep it underground.' As we say in America, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' Why should we bother catering our music to a anyone else.? If they don't find it on their own, its their loss... /""'' /"'RESH Live and Direct from the G-Spot Orange County, California, USA

quoted 2 lines Why should we bother catering our music to a

>Why should we bother catering our music to a >anyone else.?

Since when is this music yours? ...The clue phone is ringing off the hook. C. -- cspot@hyperreal.com (Chris.Hilker)

On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:56:14 GMT+2, Matthew D. Smith <a72928@chilloutroom.eskom.co.za> wrote:

quoted 1 line Robert Miles :-( that's not IDM that's pure bladdy bullshite!!!!

>Robert Miles :-( that's not IDM that's pure bladdy bullshite!!!!

I just wonder how much of this is caused by the track being hugely overplayed on radio and TV. When it was still just a club track (in November/December last year !!), it was an absolute floorfiller in all the 'proper' clubs and everybody loved it. Then the mass media picked it up... Same thing happened for instance to 'Give it up' - Goodmen and Jaydee's 'Plastic Dreams'. It's a strange situation: media always get picked on for not being in clue with today's music and for keeping rock dinosaurs alive. Even when they pay attention to today's music, they only look at happy hardcore (*shudder*) and not at what's beyond. Then, a pure club track gets picked up by the media, they hype it to unbelievable heights, thereby destroying it, even for the people who liked the track when it was just a club anthem and had not been commercialized yet. I've always hoped that someday, mass media would really pay attention to techno. You know, Jeff Mills on the cover of the Rolling Stone, Black Dog on Top Of The Pops, that kinda stuff, thereby exposing more people to (what I consider) good music. Over the past few years though, I've seen so many examples of bad coverage of the techno scene, that I wonder whether that would not destroy the scene instead of helping it. Maybe the media should just leave us alone, let the techno scene do it's own thing. After all, it has come this far without help from the media, so why would we need it now? Still, I wish it were different... Otto, who's feeling rather gloomy today

quoted 2 lines Fuck everyone else, as long as I can get my hands on the

>Fuck everyone else, as long as I can get my hands on the >latest Rephlex record without any problem, who cares?

Amen brotha

quoted 4 lines Why should we bother catering our music to a

>>Why should we bother catering our music to a >>anyone else.? > >Since when is this music yours?

Errr...did I say it was mine? No, I said it was OURS, as in US, the IDM maniacs. There's a bit of a difference. /""'' /"'RESH Live and Direct from the G-Spot Orange County, California, USA

quoted 4 lines Besides,

> Besides, >isn't it hard enough to find your favorite artists back catalog as >it is? Fuck everyone else, as long as I can get my hands on the >latest Rephlex record without any problem, who cares?

Excuse me but FUCK this ellitist attitude! Give some respect to the musicians! Artists slave over bringing people tracks and all they can say is, "Fuck everyone else as ling as I can get my record..." Well, what about the starving musician who just wants to afford to eat and make music? Wouldn't it be nice for them to get some recognition for their hard work? In your eyes, you'd have them starve to death by limiting their releases. People bitch about not finding the record they so desparately want then it gets repressed and all those who have it bitch about the value of their rare track going down. Is the true value in the peice of plastic in your crate or the music that reaches your ears? Be respectful to the artist. If they make great music then let it speak for itself. If it sells more music and the commercial industry buys it then GREAT! It was still programmed with an underground mentality. _ -robert | |___ ____ ____ _____ | |_ \ / -__/ / _/ | _ \ __________ |_____/ \___\ |_| | |__/ / -studio- \ _________________________________ |_| http://icse1.ucsd.edu/~rcurlee/ \

"This post was like a log" now I get it! erm....

quoted 3 lines Well, there's more than just Rephlex! There's a shitload of techno

>Well, there's more than just Rephlex! There's a shitload of techno >being released all over the world that doesn't get the attention >it deserves, simply because the media ignore it.

Well I thought you said IDM, not techno. Techno is something different entirely. I think there are some pretty big techno stars already (The Chemical Brothers, Goldie, Robert Miles, Carl Cox?), especially in the UK. Even in the US there's some well known artists, mostly by the 'alternative' crowd though, not the mainstream thank christ. You have to realize IDM is a very specialized form of art music, which will never achieve mainstream recognition. It's an music which you become indoctrinated to, supported by a small network of fans and listeners who are perfectly content to avoid mainstream sources in the quest for more in the same vein. Understand that if some of the artist we talk the most about on this list recieved the type of recognition your talking about, we could pretty much kiss what we do right now goodbye. Why do you think Aphex and FSOL release things under secret names and low numbers? They're trying to return things to a reasonable place, where the true fans can get their hands on things. If Aphex or Mike P ended up on the cover of mainstream mags with vids on MTV all the time I can garuntee they would make things even harder for us. Believe me, we would never hear from them again and we'd all be left scratching our heads... /""'' /"'RESH Live and Direct from the G-Spot Orange County, California, USA

quoted 2 lines Question #4: How do you hear _any_ music with your head so far up

>Question #4: How do you hear _any_ music with your head so far up >your ass?

This is absolutely the kind of thing we don't need on IDM. If you want to have an intelligent discussion fine, if you want to start a flame war and exchange insults, go fuck yourself and find another mailing list. /""'' /"'RESH Live and Direct from the G-Spot Orange County, California, USA

On Thu, 01 Aug 1996 11:37:26, GMerchan <GMerchan@gnn.com> wrote:

quoted 6 lines I've always hoped that someday, mass media would really pay

>>I've always hoped that someday, mass media would really pay >>attention to techno. You know, Jeff Mills on the cover of the >>Rolling Stone, Black Dog on Top Of The Pops, that kinda stuff, >>thereby exposing more people to (what I consider) good music. > >Are you kidding me?

No I'm not.

quoted 6 lines The media always knows how to fuck up a good

>The media always knows how to fuck up a good >thing. It happens all the time with filmakers who get too much >attention: it goes to their heads. I can hardly imagine what it >would do to a bunch of introverted, shy, idm musicians. Besides, >isn't it hard enough to find your favorite artists back catalog as >it is?

And *that* is precisely why a bit more (good) media attention wouldn't hurt! More publicity ==> more record stores carry stuff ==> easier to get hold of good stuff. I don't know about you, but I prefer a 15-minute cycle ride to my local record store to travelling more than 2 hours to Amsterdam, which is virtually the only option in my case to hear the music I want. 100000 people in the city where I live and not one decent record store! Moreover, if more people get into techno (because of the increased publicity), there will be more techno radio shows and more techno releases. <end serious mode> Next: world peace ! :)

quoted 2 lines Fuck everyone else, as long as I can get my hands on the

>Fuck everyone else, as long as I can get my hands on the >latest Rephlex record without any problem, who cares?

Well, there's more than just Rephlex! There's a shitload of techno being released all over the world that doesn't get the attention it deserves, simply because the media ignore it. Anyone outside of Australia ever heard of Undefined Recordings? Aerial? (Hi Matt! :), how are things?) Otto

quoted 3 lines And *that* is precisely why a bit more (good) media attention wouldn't

> And *that* is precisely why a bit more (good) media attention wouldn't > hurt! More publicity ==> more record stores carry stuff ==> easier to get > hold of good stuff.

Nope. There probably aren't that many more people out there that would groove on that hot new Squarepusher 12" you picked up than have it already. More media coverage, or what have you, can by all means be a good thing for people who make good music but it isn't gonna get people into good idm in general. What's more, mTV has never inspired a single creative work worth my ass save perhaps an short animated film or two. And until Sony, Warner, Atlantic and their other thug-life buddies relax their grip round the skinny neck of our friends the popular media, you'll never get anything close to your dream...just hair bands with different cuts. See "independant" film, "indie" rock, "hip hop", "paintings". paul.

On Thu, 01 Aug 1996 18:17:23 -0700, Robot <robot@sdic.net> wrote:

quoted 5 lines Is the true value in the peice of plastic in your crate or the music that

>Is the true value in the peice of plastic in your crate or the music that >reaches your ears? Be respectful to the artist. If they make great music >then let it speak for itself. If it sells more music and the commercial >industry buys it then GREAT! It was still programmed with an underground >mentality.

Hear hear! It's the music that counts! Otto

At 11:12 AM 8/2/96, you wrote: <...>

quoted 4 lines If Aphex or Mike P ended up on the cover of mainstream mags

>If Aphex or Mike P ended up on the cover of mainstream mags >with vids on MTV all the time I can garuntee they would make things >even harder for us. Believe me, we would never hear from them again >and we'd all be left scratching our heads...

Question #1: Guarantee? Question #2: Believe? Question #3: By chance are you a promoter? Question #4: How do you hear _any_ music with your head so far up your ass? XYZ, your resentment is showing eric

On Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:43:06 -0400 (EDT), pH <heninger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> wrote:

quoted 3 lines More media coverage, or what have you, can by all means be a

>More media coverage, or what have you, can by all means be a >good thing for people who make good music but it isn't gonna get people >into good idm in general.

That's not true. A lot of people, when you play them some 'good' techno, as opposed to the crap they usually hear on the radio, will be pleasantly surprised. I'm not saying they will become instant fans of the genre, far from it, but I've had many Nirvana-freaks who said that they wouldn't turn off the radio when this would be played. Some of them actually even went out and bought some decent techno! Free their minds and their ass will follow... Otto

quoted 1 line This is absolutely the kind of thing we don't need on IDM.

>This is absolutely the kind of thing we don't need on IDM.

"we"? eric p.s. Sorry to make all of you watch the level of discussion get dragged down this low.

quoted 4 lines WHAT??? IDM is a MAIL LIST!!! There just happens to be a group

>WHAT??? IDM is a MAIL LIST!!! There just happens to be a group >of people that decided they liked this emerging style of techno >that was more listening style than dance floor style but it's >still techno, thank you very much.

I would hardly call Squarepusher, Photek, Wagonchrist, etc. just 'techno.' IDM is surely a genre based around certain labels (warp, rephlex, clear) whose musical output inspires obsessive devotion.

quoted 1 line The majority of this list CENTERS around over-media-hyped artists!

>The majority of this list CENTERS around over-media-hyped artists!

If that were true, why would you need this list? When was the last time Cylob was on the cover of Vox? I can't imagine what media hyped artists you're thinking of.

quoted 1 line What? Are you chummy with these guys?

>What? Are you chummy with these guys?

Read a couple interviews, its not hard to get the gist of where their heads are at. The early FSOL releases were under quite a few pseudonyms early on when they were trying to find their niche and identity (and when hardly anyone knew of them). If they were so care free about their popularity now why bother with limited Far Out Son..., ISDN, and Semtex. It's not about just being weird.

quoted 3 lines THEY'RE the ones who can afford to buy the gear they want and get

>THEY'RE the ones who can afford to buy the gear they want and get >the studio time they need to release on major labels like Sire and >Virgin.

Even though Aphex, Mike P., FSOL, Luke Vibert, can afford to go to any studio they wish to record for the 'majors,' they choose to record all their music in home studios.

quoted 1 line What do you mean we'd never hear from them?

>What do you mean we'd never hear from them?

I mean they'd begin to use all aliases and it would be harder and harder to be able to tell what was what and who was who. Look, I'm basically not saying anything Aphex hasn't before in interviews. Let's kill this thread and move on to greener pastures... /""'' /"'RESH Live and Direct from the G-Spot Orange County, California, USA

quoted 2 lines Well I thought you said IDM, not techno. Techno is something

>Well I thought you said IDM, not techno. Techno is something >different entirely.

WHAT??? IDM is a MAIL LIST!!! There just happens to be a group of people that decided they liked this emerging style of techno that was more listening style than dance floor style but it's still techno, thank you very much.

quoted 4 lines Understand that if some of the artist we talk the

>Understand that if some of the artist we talk the >most about on this list recieved the type of recognition your >talking about, we could pretty much kiss what we do right now >goodbye.

HELLO!!! The majority of this list CENTERS around over-media-hyped artists! BTW what do you mean "what we do?" What are we doing besides sharing ideas about music releases???

quoted 4 lines Why do you think Aphex and FSOL release things under

>Why do you think Aphex and FSOL release things under >secret names and low numbers? They're trying to return things to a >reasonable place, where the true fans can get their hands on >things.

What? Are you chummy with these guys? Are you in on their secrets? Releasing under different names and with weird and obscure pressings is the nature of the scene. It was happening WAAAAAY before RDJ, Mike P, or FSOL were popular (ever heard of Stakker Humanoid???) These people are just dedicated to the weird and obscure. This is all part of the sound and the vibe.

quoted 3 lines If Aphex or Mike P ended up on the cover of mainstream mags

>If Aphex or Mike P ended up on the cover of mainstream mags >with vids on MTV all the time I can garuntee they would make things >even harder for us.

And what do you call being on the cover of Future Music? What do you call being featured in Keyboard or big time music rags like Aphex Twin and FSOL have done? It would appear that you are ignorant to the fact that the people you mention are the ones GETTING all the big media hype. THEY'RE the ones who can afford to buy the gear they want and get the studio time they need to release on major labels like Sire and Virgin.

quoted 2 lines Believe me, we would never hear from them again

>Believe me, we would never hear from them again >and we'd all be left scratching our heads...

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out where your coming from. What do you mean we'd never hear from them? When have we heard from them except through the media? _ -robert | |___ ____ ____ _____ | |_ \ / -__/ / _/ | _ \ __________ |_____/ \___\ |_| | |__/ / -studio- \ _________________________________ |_| http://icse1.ucsd.edu/~rcurlee/ \

quoted 1 line were popular (ever heard of Stakker Humanoid???) These people are just

> were popular (ever heard of Stakker Humanoid???) These people are just

sorry to interrupt your incredibly dull post(s), but I'd just like to reiterate that Stakker Humanoid Is the Bomb!!!! james<--- will continue to pick details out of posts and resurface them as subjects of their own. (Also still feeling like an unbearable male from reading Helen's critique of my reactions to Locust. Mommy!!!) _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- J A M E S B E N J A M I N G I L L U N F O R T U N A T E L Y L I V I N G I N A R I Z O N A J G I L L @ U . A R I Z O N A . E D U (ron trent is *still* the bomb!)

quoted 8 lines If Aphex or Mike P ended up on the cover of mainstream mags

>>If Aphex or Mike P ended up on the cover of mainstream mags >>with vids on MTV all the time I can garuntee they would make things >>even harder for us. > >And what do you call being on the cover of Future Music? What do you call >being featured in Keyboard or big time music rags like Aphex Twin and FSOL >have done? It would appear that you are ignorant to the fact that the people >you mention are the ones GETTING all the big media hype.

I don't know where you live but over here, few people know who Aphex Twin and Future sound of London are, their videos are shown on MTV at night only, and on the cover of music magazines you are most likely to find Michael Jackson, U2 etc. No media hype to speak about. Johan. ,,, /'~'\ ( 0 0 ) +----------------------------oOOO--(_)--OOOo----------------------------+ Johan Jaatinen AniAg@Info.LiU.SE Music maker and dreamer of the dreams Oooo. +46-(0)13-15 84 23 (Stow too) .oooO ( ) MU WILL RISE AGAIN +-----------------------------( )----) /------------------------------+ \ ( (_/ \_)

quoted 1 line if you want to start a flame war and exchange insults, go fuck yourself

>if you want to start a flame war and exchange insults, go fuck yourself

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ..am I missing something here? RAT

quoted 3 lines If Aphex or Mike P ended up on the cover of mainstream mags

>>>If Aphex or Mike P ended up on the cover of mainstream mags >>>with vids on MTV all the time I can garuntee they would make things >>>even harder for us.

quoted 5 lines And what do you call being on the cover of Future Music? What do

>>And what do you call being on the cover of Future Music? What do >>you call being featured in Keyboard or big time music rags like Aphex >>Twin and FSOL have done? It would appear that you are ignorant to the >> fact that the people you mention are the ones GETTING all the big >> media hype.

quoted 4 lines I don't know where you live but over here, few people know who Aphex Twin

>I don't know where you live but over here, few people know who Aphex Twin >and Future sound of London are, their videos are shown on MTV at night >only, and on the cover of music magazines you are most likely to find >Michael Jackson, U2 etc. No media hype to speak about.

I think the situation here in Sweden is somewhat similar to the topic earlier re ChBr being played on NBC sportsmen profiles. A lot of tracks (ChBR,Goldie,Underworld) are subliminally sneaked into national TV, especially the public nets. At least 3-5 x week (ymmv-mine is less) you have an intro/outro with a feature. I suppose this will only be heard by people somewhat conditioned to the style, but I believe it infiltrates. So summarily, a lot of people know snippets of the tracks, they just do not realize it. What do you on the "whose- property-is-IDM-thread" think about this? - Anders

On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, [iso-8859-1] Anders T?rring wrote:

quoted 5 lines I think the situation here in Sweden is somewhat similar to the

> I think the situation here in Sweden is somewhat similar to the > topic earlier re ChBr being played on NBC sportsmen profiles. > A lot of tracks (ChBR,Goldie,Underworld) are subliminally sneaked > into national TV, especially the public nets. At least 3-5 x week > (ymmv-mine is less) you have an intro/outro with a feature. I suppose

I see a similiar situation with a local radio station here in the Washington DC(U.S.) metro area called WHFS. It's a fairly popular, commerical "Modern Rock" station. Here's the kicker, with their own adverts they throw in snippets of tunes by MBM, Aphex, Prodigy, etc... and IT'S A REALLY ANNOYING TEASE.... Anyway just thought I'd add a little... Ross Volition Inc

quoted 3 lines but I believe it infiltrates. So summarily, a lot of people know snippets

>but I believe it infiltrates. So summarily, a lot of people know snippets >of the tracks, they just do not realize it. What do you on the "whose- >property-is-IDM-thread" think about this?

It all goes toward close-minded people's ears getting accustomed to the unorthodox strains of RDJ or FSOL or Wafta; soon they will be able to like what we've gotten all along, the general musical sense will grow, and the future will benefit. Music is everyone's, if they have ears for it.. eric

On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 10:19:12, Gonzi Merchan Fresh <GMerchan@gnn.com> wrote:

quoted 3 lines I would hardly call Squarepusher, Photek, Wagonchrist, etc. just

>I would hardly call Squarepusher, Photek, Wagonchrist, etc. just >'techno.' IDM is surely a genre based around certain labels (warp, >rephlex, clear) whose musical output inspires obsessive devotion.

Obsessive devotion. You said it.

quoted 5 lines The majority of this list CENTERS around over-media-hyped artists!

>>The majority of this list CENTERS around over-media-hyped artists! > >If that were true, why would you need this list? When was the last >time Cylob was on the cover of Vox? I can't imagine what media hyped >artists you're thinking of.

It's not the mainstream media that hype these artists (probably because they don't know about them), but the more specialized media like dance music magazines do! For instance, I don't want to feed all the people who had wet dreams just thinking about the RDJ&MP release.... (no offense intended) I guess that's what I'm trying to get at: Rephlex, Warp et al. have produced some great IDM (but some mediocre as well), but there are so much more artists and labels that produce great techno/IDM/whateverlabelyoulike that are not getting the recognition they deserve, simply because they are ignored by media only looking towards the 'established' names.

quoted 1 line It's not about just being weird.

>It's not about just being weird.

Try telling that to Aphex :)

quoted 2 lines I mean they'd begin to use all aliases and it would be harder and

>I mean they'd begin to use all aliases and it would be harder and >harder to be able to tell what was what and who was who.

And that is a bad thing? I don't think so! Does it matter who has made the music you're listening to? Surely not. The only thing that matters is whether you like the music or not. The music should be based solely on its musical qualities, not on the aura surrounding the artist. We need more white labels ! Otto