179,854Messages
9,130Senders
30Years
342mboxes

← archive index

Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24

6 messages · 6 participants · spans 3 days · search this subject
1996-06-08 04:07Sean Cooper (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
1996-06-08 20:24GD Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
1996-06-10 16:44Jon Drukman Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
└─ 1996-06-10 19:14Miles Egan Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
└─ 1996-06-11 01:09Chris.Hilker Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
1996-06-10 19:01Mark Bowen Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
expand allcollapse allclick any summary to toggle that message
1996-06-08 04:07Sean Cooperlike many on this list, i've been watching with some interest the growing infatuation with
From:
Sean Cooper
To:
Date:
Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:07:10 -0800
Subject:
(idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
permalink · <v01510100addea5571ed4@[204.156.134.105]>
like many on this list, i've been watching with some interest the growing infatuation with yer Squarepusher, noting with fascination and not a little anticipation the use of descriptors like "Mr. Future Of Music" and cute little sigs like "octahedral puller," etc. stumbling across his "feed me weird things" at the record store today, i was thus delighted to finally have opportunity to experience for myself the growing phenomenon that this individual is rapidly becoming...i will say i had chance to hear the rephlex 12-inch that preceded this long-player some weeks back, and, i must admit, was not all that impressed. some good ideas, i thought (particularly the live soloing and his mutation of jazz and blues-based music phrasing in the context of drum'n'bass), but for the most part flooded with business, flat delivery, hurried production, and a general lack of dynamics...rome, i reminded myself humbly, was not built in a day, and i allowed the fellow a hollow introduction with the agreement to listen closely to his full-length upon its release and decide then as to his value... ...so, i did. and i must say my mind hasn't changed. granted, i listened somewhat quickly, on headphones, in the record store, giving only a minute to a minute-and-a-half to each track (although i listened to "theme" in its entirety)...my criticisms will be brief: although not untalented (indeed, it could be argued that Mr. Pusher is one of few junglists attempting to extract drum'n'bass from the conceptual rut its been lying in for some months now), Squarepusher's "feed me weird things" seemed to me to be something of the drum'n'bass equivelent of the worst of late-era hard-bop or (yikes!) early '70s jazz-rock fusion. like middle period jazz messengers or the latter incarnations of the mahavishnu orchestra, Squarepusher assembles a euphoric, dizzying array of technique and stylistic facility before the listener, and one which is, at least where these ears are concerned, entirely devoid of emotional content and compositional dynamics. now, i don't mean to say i don't like the album 'cuz it's not Serious and Involved and other things like that--i've got as much zappa as berio in my collection. but, as in the case of the ep, the music seems to be operating from the principle that, if fucked-up sounds good ev'ry coupla bars, why...it'll sound even better for eight bars solid, or indeed, all the way through! but after the upteenth flanged high-hat sixteenth note is arranged and the fourth or fifth layer of reverse time-stretched drum shot applied, i'm left with the criticism of grotus' first album vocalist lars fox offered me when i asked him what he thought of it: "it's all highs and no lows. which means its effectively no highs at all." ...i bought "hidden camera" instead. sc onnow: the melvins : stag (atlantic; now _this_ i like...)
1996-06-08 20:24GDSean Cooper wrote: > the context of drum'n'bass), but for the most part flooded with busin
From:
GD
To:
Date:
Sat, 08 Jun 1996 15:24:53 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
permalink · <31B9E195.1FBA@interramp.com>
Sean Cooper wrote:
quoted 5 lines the context of drum'n'bass), but for the most part flooded with business,> the context of drum'n'bass), but for the most part flooded with business, > flat delivery, hurried production, and a general lack of dynamics...rome, i[snip] > assembles a euphoric, dizzying array of technique and stylistic facility > before the listener, and one which is, at least where these ears are > concerned, entirely devoid of emotional content and compositional dynamics.
There's that key word: dynamics - I would have to agree that a lot of his material is rather short in this area, especially tracks like 'Conumber' which have a sort of 'horror vacui' sensibility to them. It gets to the point that the individual layers of the tune lose any sort of distinction and become this relentless barrage of 16th note snares and flanged rim shots. I would disagree on the emotional content side. Although this is a rather subjective area, I think that many of his tunes really are quite expressive, e.g. 'Theme from Goodbye Renaldo' and 'Sarcacid pt.2' (last song on the A side of 'Alroy'). On these tunes Jenkinson does a good job of creating a progression/melody which actually does have some kind of depth to it - it's not just tonal filler that sits lifelessly behind the beats like on a lot of ambient jungle tunes.
quoted 3 lines months now), Squarepusher's "feed me weird things" seemed to me to be> months now), Squarepusher's "feed me weird things" seemed to me to be > something of the drum'n'bass equivelent of the worst of late-era hard-bop > or (yikes!) early '70s jazz-rock fusion. like middle period jazz messengers
This brings up another point - I wonder what Luke Vibert thinks of Mr. Jenkinson's efforts and vice-versa. 'Deep Fried Pizza' off of the Rephlex 12" sounds like fusion or even the Red Hot Chili Peppers in spots, and isn't far off from the type of material Vibert parodies in tunes like 'Cheesy (Gigolo Mix)' on Plug 2. Jenkinson really likes that kind of stuff, and Vibert disses it. All of this is going a bit overboard on the criticism side - the Squarepusher material is undoubtedly at the top of the heap of d&b releases, and he's just getting started. GD
1996-06-10 16:44Jon DrukmanAt 9:07 PM 6/7/96, Sean Cooper wrote: >like many on this list, i've been watching with som
From:
Jon Drukman
To:
Date:
Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:44:11 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
permalink · <v02140b03ade1ff4af87a@[206.79.132.104]>
At 9:07 PM 6/7/96, Sean Cooper wrote:
quoted 2 lines like many on this list, i've been watching with some interest the growing>like many on this list, i've been watching with some interest the growing >infatuation with yer Squarepusher,
ditto i was at a party yesterday and my man Squishy showed up with "Feed Me Weird Things" and Orbital's "In Sides". being in a very receptive state of mind from all the beer 'n' weed floating around i sat back, ready to be blown away... well, i feel the same way everyone else seems to feel about lifeforms - technically proficient, well produced, but just doesn't connect for me. the jazz style he does he is obviously good at but i think it's pretty shlocky sounding. also, the 303 jungle tracks were just annoying. i am so sick of 303's squirting and farting their way through layers of distortion. listen to Off And Gone's album to see how to properly use a 303 in 1996! if i ever find the squarepusher album for cheap i'd probably get it but i wouldn't spent $22 on it. and yes, all the excessive hype definitely worked against it. hey man, my life isn't changed after hearing it! where's my new life?!!?!
quoted 6 lines the drum'n'bass equivelent of the worst of late-era hard-bop>the drum'n'bass equivelent of the worst of late-era hard-bop >or (yikes!) early '70s jazz-rock fusion. like middle period jazz messengers >or the latter incarnations of the mahavishnu orchestra, Squarepusher >assembles a euphoric, dizzying array of technique and stylistic facility >before the listener, and one which is, at least where these ears are >concerned, entirely devoid of emotional content and compositional dynamics.
i wouldn't say entirely devoid. the songs do change a lot and the guy is obviously into what he's doing, but there's just some magic "x factor" missing for me. i dunno, weird. hard to articulate exactly what i didn't like about it. i guess it's just that i wouldn't like that style of music without all the drum 'n' bass stuff flying around it, so i don't like it much WITH all the d'n'b stuff. make sense? thought not. *sigh* -jon
1996-06-10 19:14Miles EganOn Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Jon Drukman wrote: > well, i feel the same way everyone else seems to
From:
Miles Egan
To:
IDM List
Date:
Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
Reply to:
Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
permalink · <Pine.3.89.9606101137.A21726-0100000@waltz>
On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Jon Drukman wrote:
quoted 6 lines well, i feel the same way everyone else seems to feel about lifeforms -> well, i feel the same way everyone else seems to feel about lifeforms - > technically proficient, well produced, but just doesn't connect for me. > the jazz style he does he is obviously good at but i think it's pretty > shlocky sounding. also, the 303 jungle tracks were just annoying. i am so > sick of 303's squirting and farting their way through layers of distortion. > listen to Off And Gone's album to see how to properly use a 303 in 1996!
It's important to listen to this record more than once. I wasn't thrilled with it at first, but I'm much happier with it now. I'm still waiting for the finger of god to come down and write the meaning of the universe on my forehead, but in the meantime I'm enjoying the album for what it is, a lovely record with some imaginative twists and turns and some really storming near-industrial jungle. I don't think you or Sean would make these criticisms if you had spent a little more time with it. There aren't any "303 jungle tracks", but there are just a few very restrained 303 squiggles here and there. The cheesy lounge jazz that bothered Sean (and me originally) is very toungue in cheek and confined mostly to the first track. Most of the rest of his bass is either much more geniunely jazzy or funky with real snap. Almost every track on the record evolves and progresses and expresses all kinds of moods and emotions. (Check out "Goodnight Jade.") It's hard to listen to Squarepusher objectively after all the careless superlatives, but I do think it's a excellent record with a distinctive sound. My only complaints are that there are a couple of fairly white-bread electronic dub moments and that the record sort of runs out of steam for the last three cuts. I DO expect that the new Plug album is going to wipe the floor with this and all the other drum n' bass records. (Why the hell did they leave two tracks off the Plug 1+2 CD!?!?!?!?!) Richard James' liner notes seem completely extraneous. He describes Jenkinson's music as a something of a music concrete sample collage or a morph of non-musical elements. There are a lot of different sounds on the album, but they all sound like familiar gear or drum samples to me. BTW Teep! You've had those Slazenger and Aphex promos for a while now. What do you think?
1996-06-11 01:09Chris.Hilker>Richard James' liner notes seem completely extraneous. Cf. the 'Tango n' Vectif' liner no
From:
Chris.Hilker
To:
Date:
Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:09:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
Reply to:
Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
permalink · <199606110109.SAA20584@taz.hyperreal.com>
quoted 1 line Richard James' liner notes seem completely extraneous.>Richard James' liner notes seem completely extraneous.
Cf. the 'Tango n' Vectif' liner notes... C. -- cspot@hyperreal.com (Chris.Hilker)
1996-06-10 19:01Mark BowenI've never heard _feed me weird things_ but I did pick up _Bubble and Squeak and _Squarepu
From:
Mark Bowen
To:
, Jon Drukman
Date:
Mon, 10 Jun 96 14:01:58 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) pot shots at sacred cows, opus 24
permalink · <9606101901.AA02540@gettins.bche.uic.edu>
I've never heard _feed me weird things_ but I did pick up _Bubble and Squeak and _Squarepusher plays_ this weekend and I absolutely loved them both. I had the DJ Food remixes and I thought the SP remix on there was pretty boring, just freaky beats for their own sake without much else. Still I walked into the shopand found Tom Jenkinson releases everywhere. 4 different releases at the same time! I thought _SP plays_ was amazing. _ "theme from Renaldo" is so damn funky as is the "SP theme". I see where the 70sreferences come from as he does dip heavily into that sound. However I thought it worked wonderfully. He captures the essence of the 70s cheese sound without getting bogged down in it. "Deep Fried Pizza", however, did nothing for me. The breaks get totally lost and it just trudges along without them. _Bubble and Squeak_ is more of the same. He can make the music sound so live. Almost like a real jazz feel. The constantly mutating percussion sounds showed an impressive attention to detail. Both the tunes on _B & S_ did sort of get lost in making noise out of a hopelessly complex percussion maze at the end which IMO makes the Rephlex 12" the better buy. Mark Bowen mb@gettins.bche.uic.edu