IDM Mailing Archive

I was perusing the new age section of Blockbuster 'Music' the other day and I came across this CD from some poofy headed feeb named John Hartnell or Jimmy Buttcheek or some thing... I can recall and I wish I had written it down. The CD was called, ehhh, Ambient Trancendences or some shit. The thing about it is this: The comments on the back claimed he 'invented' ambient music long before Eno ever accepted the term... I don't want to argue the point of who did or did not 'invent' anything... It just made me wonder if this was not like someone claiming to have 'invented' the color blue. Blue just IS. One day someone figured out how to manufacture blue in pens and in paint tubes, but this does not mean that blue never was before that time. Just look up on a clear day. There you have it. (No, not the sun, the space AROUND the sun.) Ambient music... Or just ambience. Ambient noise, even. It is just the structure and melody of sounds that surround us. We can really, theoretically, do without the CD's and just let our minds wander enough until we begin to hear distant conversations blending in with wind and footsteps and a car driving three blocks over. That is ambient music. The marketable kind is an imaginary version of the same things...but instead of just waiting for it to happen at random, it has been deliberately constructed. Why the need to have been the one to 'invent' what existed in nature since there was a nature? I figure his music must suck so he has to find a credential elsewhere. Dunno. Didnt buy it. Probably won't. Jasonosaj.

On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, Alphabet Design wrote:

quoted 2 lines The comments on the back claimed he 'invented' ambient music long before

> The comments on the back claimed he 'invented' ambient music long before > Eno ever accepted the term...

Well, there is always the "Erik Satie Invented It" frame of mind. In the second decade of this century, Satie called his music "furniture music"...and it *is* if you listen to it...music that acts ambiently in a room as 'furniture'. David Chandler - chandler@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us (503)301-3011 grep -i casio goodwillbins >> mystudio ; grep -i atari goodwillbins >> mystudio ;

On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Farm A Cist wrote:

quoted 5 lines Well, there is always the "Erik Satie Invented It" frame of mind. In the

> > Well, there is always the "Erik Satie Invented It" frame of mind. In the > second decade of this century, Satie called his music "furniture > music"...and it *is* if you listen to it...music that acts ambiently in a > room as 'furniture'.

Nope, it was Debussey - listen to "La Mer" sometime. Che

On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Che wrote:

quoted 8 lines On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Farm A Cist wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Farm A Cist wrote: > > > > Well, there is always the "Erik Satie Invented It" frame of mind. In the > > second decade of this century, Satie called his music "furniture > > music"...and it *is* if you listen to it...music that acts ambiently in a > > room as 'furniture'. > > Nope, it was Debussey - listen to "La Mer" sometime.

"Nope, Satie did not call his music 'furniture music'"--this appears to be what you mean by your reply ...the book I read must have just made it up, I wonder how much of the rest of the book was false then! ;-> I source _The Bride Stripped Bare_, as well as the liner notes to my Nonesuch label Satie records, what's yours? This is my last public post on the thread, I'll happily discuss it privately as it ain't IDM'ish subject matter... David Chandler - chandler@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us (503)301-3011 grep -i casio goodwillbins >> mystudio ; grep -i atari goodwillbins >> mystudio ;

On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Farm A Cist wrote: [text deleted]

quoted 6 lines "Nope, Satie did not call his music 'furniture music'"--this appears t

> "Nope, Satie did not call his music 'furniture music'"--this appears to be > what you mean by your reply ...the book I read must have just made it up, > I wonder how much of the rest of the book was false then! ;-> > > I source _The Bride Stripped Bare_, as well as the liner notes to my > Nonesuch label Satie records, what's yours?

[rest deleted] I jump a little late to this thread, considering I was (and still am) a Satie fanatic and own a quite bit material about him. Okay, to the point: Satie didn«t only call his music «furniture«, he also named a piece part composition just that: «Furniture Music« I don«t have my library (ha ha...) here, but I«m 100% sure about this and I can check it out. I«ve heard a recording of the piece, and it is basically pretty sounding riffs played over and over again. I believe the score doesn«t specify the number of repeats. Sorry to make this thread longer. On a related note, it«s interesting how satie didn«t at times consider himself to be a composer. More of a scientist, I think. Althought his famous signature was: «Erik Satie, Composer of Music« or something, he often claimed not be a composer. This is quite interesting, because many IDM (and other electronic-based) composers have similar attitudes. u-ziq comes to mind. Teemu from Teemu ----> tkorpipa@siba.fi ------------------------------------------------------------------ REASSURANCE PANEL In case of doubt, confusion of alarm, please touch this panel. ------------------ + + + HI THERE! + + + ------------------ At times of stress it is often reassuring to make physical contact with friendly objects. This panel is your friend. - Douglas Adams -

quoted 6 lines On a related note, it?s interesting how satie didn?t at times consider

> On a related note, it?s interesting how satie didn?t at times consider > himself to be a composer. More of a scientist, I think. Althought his > famous signature was: ?Erik Satie, Composer of Music? or something, he > often claimed not be a composer. This is quite interesting, because many > IDM (and other electronic-based) composers have similar attitudes. u-ziq > comes to mind.

Egad! I just picked up "Art of the Sixth Sense: Cabaret Voltaire" last night (incidently, non-arty CV fans should know that their name is from the 9-month-lived cafe in which the Dadaists converged regularly). Anyway, in the book, Richard H. Kirk said that he still didn't consider himself a musician but more of an experimenter who was just sort of using music as the tool (paraphrased a bit). Many of the noise/experimental musicians (?) I've played with seem to feel this way. Plus, I've always prefaced playing noise music for, uh, normal people (that is relative, yes) by saying that they might be more likely to enjoy/be-open-to what I play if they don't consider it music at all. This seems true for rhythmic electronic music too, whereas most listeners may choose to identify the beat with music-side of what they are listenning to and the rest as, uh, well, "bleep, blloop, whoooosh" David Chandler - chandler@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us (503)301-3011 grep -i casio goodwillbins >> mystudio ; grep -i atari goodwillbins >> mystudio ;

It could be said that Satie pioneered some of the first examples of 'Avant garde' music. He was more involved with the Surrealists though, wasn't he? He did ballets like parade just to bother the audience. Picasso did backgrounds and costumes...etc. The audiences of his openings would boo and hiss and throw things. In general, a great artistic endeavor. Heh.

On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Alphabet Design wrote:

quoted 5 lines It could be said that Satie pioneered some of the first examples of

> > > It could be said that Satie pioneered some of the first examples of > 'Avant garde' music. He was more involved with the Surrealists though, > wasn't he?

Well, he was composing along those lines since the 1880's, so that precedes Surrealism by about 30 years. He only formally studied music so that he could be considered "valid" in his experimental music, which he got recognition for by 1914 or so, which is when cubism was just beginning and futurism was in full swing. Picasso was way-young then...and Musique Brute was the cutting edge. Right at this time, there were experimental cabarets doing the stuff that Genesis P'Orridge's clan (Cum Transmissions or whatever it was called) did as performance art in the 70's; nothing new. David Chandler - chandler@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us (503)301-3011 grep -i casio goodwillbins >> mystudio ; grep -i atari goodwillbins >> mystudio ;

On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Farm A Cist wrote:

quoted 2 lines Well, he was composing along those lines since the 1880's, so that

> Well, he was composing along those lines since the 1880's, so that > precedes Surrealism by about 30 years.

Ooof.

quoted 3 lines 1914 or so, which is when cubism was just beginning

> 1914 or so, which is when cubism was just beginning > and futurism was in full swing. Picasso was way-young then...and Musique > Brute was the cutting edge.

Er. That's right. Damn.... So who am I thinking about? My hair caught on fire just now from the intense blushing I was doing. I hate making an ass of myself. Oh well, as you said, nothing new :) Jasonosaj

quoted 1 line I was perusing the new age section of Blockbuster 'Music'

>I was perusing the new age section of Blockbuster 'Music'

Yikes!

quoted 3 lines the other day and I came across this CD from some poofy headed feeb named

>the other day and I came across this CD from some poofy headed feeb named >John Hartnell or Jimmy Buttcheek or some thing... >I can recall and I wish I had written it down.

I think it is "Steven Halpern"

quoted 3 lines The CD was called, ehhh, Ambient Trancendences or some shit.

> >The CD was called, ehhh, Ambient Trancendences or some shit. >

Yuck! I've seen it though, and I know what you mean....

quoted 4 lines The thing about it is this:

>The thing about it is this: > >The comments on the back claimed he 'invented' ambient music long before >Eno ever accepted the term...

Dunno about that.... I think Erik Satie really invented ambient music as such, I mean, not invented it as much as decided that music could and should be used to directly emulate, simulate, or duplicate a given environment. Study up on his reasoning behind his "Gymnopedies", or give them a listen or six, and you might see what I mean. Other avant gardists actually used ambient sound events like tapes of street souns and birds and such a long time ago (John Cage did this a ton, and so did countless others... even Yoko Ono, if you can believe that). Karlheinz Stockhausen was making stuff that sounded a bit like Eno before Eno, and so were other classical electronic experimentalists. So I guess Eno didn't so much invent something as give a name to it and declare officially that it could and should count as "music". Before Eno, to put it another way, no one thought of calling this music "ambient", nor had anyone thought of any parameters that defined "ambient" music. Steven Halpern, this new age yuppie idiot certainly didn't even do that now... I've never read any essays on the effects of "unlocking" notes or anything by Halpern... but I have by Eno.... as far as I am concerned, who cares if this yuppie guy was fooling around with synthesisers like so many others were doing in some way or another before Eno?

quoted 1 line I don't want to argue the point of who did or did not 'invent' anything...

>I don't want to argue the point of who did or did not 'invent' anything...

Yes, let's not. As i stated above, countless people were doing this stuff at pretty much the same time, and, who cares who invented what anyway?

quoted 2 lines It just made me wonder if this was not like someone claiming to have

>It just made me wonder if this was not like someone claiming to have >'invented' the color blue. Blue just IS.

Well, now, blue is a color, but a painting using the color blue is an invention of sorts... ambience is a thing, but ambience in music, well, I'd think that is an invention....

quoted 2 lines I figure his music must suck so he has to find a credential elsewhere.

>I figure his music must suck so he has to find a credential elsewhere. >

I bet it does, but I don't intend to ever find out for certain....

quoted 2 lines Didnt buy it.

>Didnt buy it. >Probably won't.

Good idea.