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Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )

6 messages · 6 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
1995-09-18 22:07Andrew Bennett Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
└─ 1995-09-19 04:20Christopher William Niemitz Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
1995-09-19 00:37Eric Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
└─ 1995-09-19 03:04Greg Earle Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
└─ 1995-09-19 04:01Michael Upton Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
1995-09-20 00:13Cindy Desmarais Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
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1995-09-18 22:07Andrew BennettEric states: >I don't see >ANY women (that I know of), posting to idm, 313, breaks or even
From:
Andrew Bennett
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Date:
Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:07:10 -0400
Subject:
Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
permalink · <199509190103.SAA08357@mail3.netcom.com>
Eric states:
quoted 6 lines I don't see>I don't see >ANY women (that I know of), posting to idm, 313, breaks or even the ambient >lists. There are plenty of women with computers and modems and email >addresses so those disparities can be eliminated, which leaves the music and >its members and scenes. I think women could add some unforeseen and >valuable aspects to electronic music. What is going on here?
Women post on idm and 313. Keep those eyes open! (I just read a post to 313 from a woman, in fact). I think it's more appropiate to analyze if our particular day to day actions discourage posting or participation. That's the key. But this is straying from idm. ObIDM: That Torch Song recent cd (William Orbit) is really good! I can't compare it to the first or other Torch Songs, but it definitely has that Orbit feel to it. Ace. Andrew -- Andrew Bennett abennett@hyperreal.com, abennett@cruzio.com <--- new address! http://taz.hyperreal.com/~abennett/
1995-09-19 04:20Christopher William NiemitzOn Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Andrew Bennett wrote: > Eric states: > > ObIDM: That Torch Song recen
From:
Christopher William Niemitz
To:
Andrew Bennett
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:20:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
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Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
permalink · <Pine.3.89.9509182148.A15609-0100000@ese.UCSC.EDU>
On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Andrew Bennett wrote:
quoted 3 lines Eric states:> Eric states: > > ObIDM: That Torch Song recent cd (William Orbit) is really good! I can't
this reminds me. anybody out there (Lazlo?) know if the Classical Album (by WO) that was to be released was actually released (and then pulled)? Or was it deleted even before any copies (including promos) were ever pressed? Also, I saw "Spirit" by Caroline Lavelle listed for Musicraft records. Anyone know if this an actual domestic release of the album? I think Musicraft is a folk label (?) so i guess there's no hope for other N-Gram releases on this label..or...? chris kusp 88.9
1995-09-19 00:37EricAt 02:01 PM 9/18/95 -0700, you wrote: > >Although there are not nearly as many female tech
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Eric
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Date:
Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:37:52 -0700
Subject:
Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
permalink · <199509190037.RAA26743@shell1.best.com>
At 02:01 PM 9/18/95 -0700, you wrote:
quoted 11 lines Although there are not nearly as many female techno artists as there> >Although there are not nearly as many female techno artists as there >could be, there are at least a few. DJ Rap makes great, deep jungle, >the late Lee Newman was one half of one of the most innovative techno / >dance industrial groups ever (GTO / Greather Than One / John & Julie / >Tricky Disco), and Chelsea Grin makes deep headfuck weirdness. Not to >mention K. Hand, deep house mistress from Detroit. > >yrz, >ozy >
This is something that has concerned me for a while now. Though there are a few female artists, artists, and DJs, I don't think the ratios in electronic music in general are any more inclusive than rock or punk. Ironically, stereotypically misogynist and sexist forms like country and rap have histories of active female participation. And in rock and punk the female participants are relegated to sideline functions or token acts (eg Go Gos, Hole, Runaways) that do nothing to facilitate increased female participation in the future. The doors to women close pretty rapidly after letting through the current crop of guilt reducers. Instead of discussing these individual artists as reasons to not do anything about it, maybe the thing to do is to ponder why female presence in techno is so easy to forget about. I don't see ANY women (that I know of), posting to idm, 313, breaks or even the ambient lists. There are plenty of women with computers and modems and email addresses so those disparities can be eliminated, which leaves the music and its members and scenes. I think women could add some unforeseen and valuable aspects to electronic music. What is going on here? eh onnow: Dr. Rockitt/Ready to Rockitt (Clear)
1995-09-19 03:04Greg Earle> At 02:01 PM 9/18/95 -0700, you wrote: > >> Although there are not nearly as many female
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Greg Earle
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Cc:
Date:
Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:04:02 -0700
Subject:
Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
Reply to:
Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
permalink · <9509190304.AA04500@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>
quoted 16 lines At 02:01 PM 9/18/95 -0700, you wrote:> At 02:01 PM 9/18/95 -0700, you wrote: > >> Although there are not nearly as many female Techno artists as there >> could be, there are at least a few. DJ Rap makes great, deep Jungle; >> the late Lee Newman was one half of one of the most innovative Techno / >> dance Industrial groups ever (GTO / Greater Than One / John & Julie / >> Tricky Disco), and Chelsea Grin makes deep headfuck weirdness. Not to >> mention K. Hand, Deep House mistress from Detroit. > > This is something that has concerned me for a while now. Though there are a > few female artists, artists, and DJs, I don't think the ratios in electronic > music in general are any more inclusive than rock or punk. > [...] > Instead of discussing these individual > artists as reasons to not do anything about it, maybe the thing to do is to > ponder why female presence in techno is so easy to forget about.
Well, seeing as how I might be the only person on this list whose better half is a Real Live Working Female Techno Musician, I'll put my big mouth in. The reason you don't see more working Women Techno artists is simple: Men. There's one big problem with most men, and especially men that are musicians: E-G-O. I've seen so many male egos try to assert themselves around Jennifer (said aforementioned better half) when it comes to music that it isn't funny. From former bandmates to associates to people she's just trying to strike up some sort of conversation with or association with, I see this endless parade of males who feel this need to assert their supposed superiority. One time I was in the studio when she and her band-mate (in a previous guise, working in an Industrial band for Belgium's Kk Records - home of Psychic Warriors ov Gaia et al.) were talking to the engineer. Even though she did most of the work on the music, every time there was a decision-point, the engineer turned and looked straight at her bandmate. Finally I said "Why don't you ask try asking *her*, you woman-hating sonuvabitch?" And don't EVEN tell me that this is an "isolated incident". I've seen it, sports fans, and it ain't pretty. And when I don't see the suppressed-male-dominance ego breast-beating at work, usually instead it's a sort of begrudging "One of the Boys" type of thing. i.e., she gets treated as if it's nothing special that she's a female trying to do this kind of thing. To a certain point I understand that - hey, sex *shouldn't* matter, after all - but given that it's a Known Problem, some allowances should be made to acknowledge that. Related to this is having a support network. A lot of really creative people are a lot more sensitive than others. They *need* that "Atta girl!" or "Don't let the bastards grind you down" kind of support sometimes. Ever read the credits on some of these IDM male-generated records? The ones with the credits like Thanks to me Mum, Ben the Old Geezer, Tony, Andy, Fluid the Mad Trainspotter, ... [insert dozens of other oddly-named people here] ... These people have support networks. Lots of people around to give them encouragement, not be competitive or negative, even collaborative (how many collaborations have been mentioned recently? Gescom? Aurobindo? Plaid + Mark Broom? etc. etc. etc.?) MY Female Techno Artist doesn't have that kind of support. (Of course, then again we *do* live in Los Angeles, land of "Hi! What can I get out of you?".) Then there's the geek factor. Being an electronic musician is like being a computer geek in a lot of ways (like people on this list wouldn't know that). I mean, isn't being fascinated by the endless pathways that is the Black Hole of the K2000 (thanks Jon D. (-: ) not terribly dissimilar to being, say, a UNIX weenie? When he tables get turned - when I go to net.geek events, she doesn't have the vaguest idea what I'm talking about; conversely, when she starts throwing around "bulk dumps" and "SysEx" and chunks" in Performer or whathaveyou, I don't have the vaguest fuckin' idea what she's talking about :-) It takes a very particular mindset to involve oneself in the intricacies of making IDM, and there's a techie quotient involved that might not be of much interest to women (or too intimidating, for whatever reason). There's also the cost factor. Gear ain't cheap! How many women have you heard lately say "Oh, if I only had the cash for a Mackie board ... " or "Man, I'd give anything to be able to afford a VL-1 ... "? Wanna support female Techno artists? Fine. C'mon out to L.A. next month on October 14th for "Funtopia" - http://www.forfood.com/~garyblit/funtopia.html - and see Jawa Sandcrawler for yourself. What kind of music does she do? All kinds, mostly in the heavy Trance/IDM/Funk/Electro-influenced vein. If you want more specifics, how about this: "Wagon who? Jake who?" - Greg
1995-09-19 04:01Michael UptonOn Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Greg Earle wrote: > The reason you don't see more working Women Techn
From:
Michael Upton
To:
Intelligent Dance Music
Date:
Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:01:40 +1200 (NZST)
Subject:
Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
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Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
permalink · <Pine.B44.3.91.950919153836.16230A-100000@mu.sans.vuw.ac.nz>
On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Greg Earle wrote:
quoted 13 lines The reason you don't see more working Women Techno artists is simple:> The reason you don't see more working Women Techno artists is simple: > > Men. > > There's one big problem with most men, and especially men that are musicians: > > E-G-O. > > I've seen so many male egos try to assert themselves around Jennifer (said > aforementioned better half) when it comes to music that it isn't funny. From > former bandmates to associates to people she's just trying to strike up some > sort of conversation with or association with, I see this endless parade of > males who feel this need to assert their supposed superiority.
I'll testify to that!!! One of the things that I don't think was touched on, or said very explicitly anyway, was that the whole competitivity issue is something which women aren't socialised into. The few women I've ever collaborated with have enjoyed the fun of playing and so on, while most of the men have wanted to push for "end-results" and so on. Of course, this is only my observation of the *norm*, not the way everyone works. Michael ______________________________________________________________________________ scrot@sans.vuw.ac.nz (Michael Upton) "the desert stares back with a thousand eyes" - Coil ______________________________________________________________________________
1995-09-20 00:13Cindy Desmarais>>I don't see >>ANY women (that I know of), posting to idm, 313, breaks or even the ambien
From:
Cindy Desmarais
To:
Date:
Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:13:18 -0400
Subject:
Re: Femme techno (was: Re: RAC )
permalink · <199509200013.UAA15140@freenet2.carleton.ca>
quoted 6 lines I don't see>>I don't see >>ANY women (that I know of), posting to idm, 313, breaks or even the ambient >>lists. There are plenty of women with computers and modems and email >>addresses so those disparities can be eliminated, which leaves the music and >>its members and scenes. I think women could add some unforeseen and >>valuable aspects to electronic music. What is going on here?
Hey, I'm a member of the female race & I've been posting on idm off and on for about two years now, along with many other lists including electronica, the orb list & nw-raves.
quoted 2 lines I think it's more appropiate to analyze if our particular day to day>I think it's more appropiate to analyze if our particular day to day >actions discourage posting or participation. That's the key.
I have never found this to be the case. Although it's true that these lists are guy-dominated, I've never found them to be guy-ORIENTED really. Besides, half the time it's not apparent what sex a person is by their post.. unless you've encountered the person in real life. Cid -- "Friends don't let friends circle dance."