IDM Mailing Archive

issue #75 of Street Sound magazine lists their choice of top 50 techno albums, here's the first 10: 1. 808 State - 90 (1989) 2. A Guy Called Gerald - Automannik (1990) 3. Air Liquide - Nephology (1994) 4. Amorphous Androgynous - Tales of Ephidrina (1993) 5. Aphex Twin - Selected Ambient Works (85-92) (1992) 6. B12 - Electro Soma (1993) 7. Baby Ford - Fordtrax (1988) 8. Black Dog Productions - Bytes (1993) 9. Cabaret Voltaire - Micro-Phonies (1984) 10. CJ Bolland - the 4th Sign (1993) Also Mixmag has some album reviews: 1. FSOL's ISDN - album of the month, gets their top rating of 10, they love it. 2. Headz on Mo'wax - also rated 10. 3. Irresistible Force by Mixmaster Morris - gets a 6, "if this sounds hippyish, its because that's what Morris is - an old hippy". 4. Sabres of Paradise's Haunted Dancehall gets a 7, "maybe next album they'll be as great as some people think they are". 5. Pentatonik's Anthology gets a 7.

quoted 4 lines issue #75 of Street Sound magazine lists their choice of top 50 techno

> > issue #75 of Street Sound magazine lists their choice of top 50 techno > albums, here's the first 10: > 1. 808 State - 90 (1989)

Interesting. I love that album but I certainly wouldn't call it the #1 techno album of all time. [...]

quoted 1 line 9. Cabaret Voltaire - Micro-Phonies (1984)

> 9. Cabaret Voltaire - Micro-Phonies (1984)

This choice is truly bizarre. It's a great album (especially the cd with the extra mix of "Sensoria") but #9 of all time? No way. Out of curiosity, did "Code" make the list too? I'd say that album is more or less the equivalent of "Twitch" by Ministry, and if the reviewers rated it on a "techno" list, I'd say it explains some of their other choices. -H-

quoted 6 lines Er, a quick look at the list indicates clearly that the choices are in

> > Er, a quick look at the list indicates clearly that the choices are in > alphabetical order, not "greatness," unless there's a serious coincidence > that I'm overlooking. I think they picked the fifty best and presented > them A-Z. >

Duh. Sorry. I guess I was conditioned by the evil media to view top ten lists as being in order of greatness :-) -H-

From the cyberdesk of: Howard Berkey

quoted 12 lines issue #75 of Street Sound magazine lists their choice of top 50 techno

> > issue #75 of Street Sound magazine lists their choice of top 50 techno > > albums, here's the first 10: > [...] > > 9. Cabaret Voltaire - Micro-Phonies (1984) > > This choice is truly bizarre. It's a great album (especially the cd > with the extra mix of "Sensoria") but #9 of all time? No way. > > Out of curiosity, did "Code" make the list too? I'd say that album is > more or less the equivalent of "Twitch" by Ministry, and if the > reviewers rated it on a "techno" list, I'd say it explains some of > their other choices.

You need to go back and listen to "Always an Angel" (or whatever it is actually called) again on _Twitch_. To not consider that a stellar example of techno is to advertise ignorance. I think you discount Ministry because of their later (mis)direction into noise/grunge. If one looks at the pre- techno version of Ministry, one finds pure 70's disco roots. I'm not defending Ministry, nor proposing I like all of what they've produced. However, I don't find it all that unreasonable that _Twitch_ would show up on a "techno" list, especially since Ministry is so much more well known to the masses (washed and unwashed) than say Jam & Spoon or FSOL (looking at albums sold). Also, I don't find it all that unusual that Micro-Phonies appears on the list, either. What else from 1984 would you rank deserving of a fairly high placement on an "all-time" list? BTW, how did Art Of Noise fare on the list? How does the list shake out in terms of "trendiness" vs. "mainstays". I wonder how much of the "all time" list didn't exist before 3 years ago (1990). Separates the visionaries from the "MTV buzz clip" artists, I think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael King mike%delta1@rex.cs.tulane.edu Delta Systems New Orleans, LA 70002-4938 Voice: 504.837.9835 Fax: 504.837.9838 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You can always tell a pioneer by the arrows in their back ------------------------------------------------------------------------

quoted 4 lines You need to go back and listen to "Always an Angel" (or whatever it is

> > You need to go back and listen to "Always an Angel" (or whatever it is > actually called) again on _Twitch_. To not consider that a stellar example > of techno is to advertise ignorance.

I guess I'm ignorant; While "The Angel" is a great song, I don't know if I'd consider it a stellar example of "techno". It, "Crash and Burn", the 12" of "Over the Shoulder", and other songs off that album got a lot of play at underage dance clubs I went to in '84 (along with CV) but I guess I've always thought of them on the other side of the murky distinction between techno and industrial dance music.

quoted 2 lines I think you discount Ministry because

> I think you discount Ministry because > of their later (mis)direction into noise/grunge.

When did I discount Ministry? I like ministry a hell of a lot more than, say, almost all ambient music. I merely said that the inclusion of Twitch or an album like Code would explain some of their other choices. It would be nearly impossible for me to pick out the "Best 50" techno albums, and I'm interested in the slant they took in looking at albums. Don't get me wrong, Twitch is one of my favorite albums of all time.

quoted 3 lines However, I don't find it all that unreasonable that _Twitch_ would show up

> However, I don't find it all that unreasonable that _Twitch_ would show up > on a "techno" list, especially since Ministry is so much more well known > to the masses (washed and unwashed) than say Jam & Spoon or FSOL (looking

Definantly true.

quoted 3 lines at albums sold). Also, I don't find it all that unusual that Micro-Phonies

> at albums sold). Also, I don't find it all that unusual that Micro-Phonies > appears on the list, either. What else from 1984 would you rank deserving of > a fairly high placement on an "all-time" list?

Interesting question. New Order's "Power, Corruption and Lies" came out around then... for a long time Blue Monday was the best selling 12" single in the world. It definantly changed dance music. (I believe Blue Monday came out on single in '83 though). Also, remember I was surprised that Micro-Phonies was #9. Of course the order was meaningless, so it isn't nearly as large a surprise.

quoted 5 lines BTW, how did Art Of Noise fare on the list? How does the list shake out in

> > BTW, how did Art Of Noise fare on the list? How does the list shake out in > terms of "trendiness" vs. "mainstays". I wonder how much of the "all time" > list didn't exist before 3 years ago (1990). Separates the visionaries from > the "MTV buzz clip" artists, I think.

True. I would hope Art of Noise would be fairly high on the list. And if Kraftwerk isn't represented the list is imho bogus :-) (and... DEVO?) -H-

quoted 12 lines You need to go back and listen to "Always an Angel" (or whatever it is

> > > > > You need to go back and listen to "Always an Angel" (or whatever it is > > actually called) again on _Twitch_. To not consider that a stellar example > > of techno is to advertise ignorance. > > I guess I'm ignorant; While "The Angel" is a great song, I don't know > if I'd consider it a stellar example of "techno". It, "Crash and Burn", > the 12" of "Over the Shoulder", and other songs off that album got a > lot of play at underage dance clubs I went to in '84 (along with CV) > but I guess I've always thought of them on the other side of the murky > distinction between techno and industrial dance music.

Something didn't sound quite right here so I checked... Twitch came out in '85 (it's singles in '84 and '85) so shift the dance club bit by a year. (Same dance clubs,only in '84 the ministry was likely more "Revenge" than "The Angel"... at least 'til later in the year :-) Later, -H-

From the cyberdesk of: Howard Berkey

quoted 3 lines You need to go back and listen to "Always an Angel" (or whatever it is

>> You need to go back and listen to "Always an Angel" (or whatever it is >> actually called) again on _Twitch_. To not consider that a stellar example >> of techno is to advertise ignorance.

quoted 2 lines I guess I'm ignorant; While "The Angel" is a great song, I don't know

> I guess I'm ignorant; While "The Angel" is a great song, I don't know > if I'd consider it a stellar example of "techno".

I confess. I've got a special remix of this track done by a friend (since there never was a 12" (as far as I know), and he made his own. Simply awesome just a pumpin' out of the 4 901s + Klipsh + bass cabinet + his "special" EQ. I don't know exactly what he did on the EQ, but for some reason all minor chords sounded *real* yummy and natural instinct forced a moovin' to the groovin'. Compounded with the 6+ hour sets he ran 4 nights a week (Thur-Sun 10-4), we used to hear some unbelievable stuff on a regular basis. Plus, being in New Orleans, we got the special treat of the 14+hour (noon-2am) blowouts for Holloween, New Years, and MardiGras. I'm sure they were physical hell, but he had a plaque on the back wall of the booth of a picture of a black leather jacket he had made and written in studs was: Music is my master

quoted 1 line It, "Crash and Burn", the 12" of "Over the Shoulder",

> It, "Crash and Burn", the 12" of "Over the Shoulder",

I agree with your assesment of the 12" of "Over the Shoulder". Not too bad mixed with "Exorcise this Wasteland" by Single Gun Theory and some of the promo 12" of "Bring on the Dancing Horses" by Echo & The Bunnymen. Stunning triple-play.

quoted 1 line ... underage dance clubs I went to in '84 ...

> ... underage dance clubs I went to in '84 ...

Aha, little one, your youth rears its head. I was 20 way back then....ahhh, wasted youth. I'm just glad most of my friends from that era are still alive, yet saddened by the fact that there are indeed fewer of them to reminisce with.

quoted 2 lines but I guess I've always thought of them on the other side of the murky

> but I guess I've always thought of them on the other side of the murky > distinction between techno and industrial dance music.

Hmmm. Skinny Puppy, SA42, Front 242, CV, etc. fall into the industrial side? I guess the opposite of the "murky side" was what came to be known as "electro"? Debbie Deb et al.? Mantronik "Who is it"? And I think House, Acid, and Acid House didn't get going until '88 or so. BTW, what exactly is "Electro"? I hear it bandied about, but nobody will say what the prime examples of this style are. That way, if I have them in my collection, I have a reference point in some of these reviews that are coming out and refer to being "in the old-school electro" style.

quoted 3 lines I think you discount Ministry because of their later (mis)direction into

>> I think you discount Ministry because of their later (mis)direction into >> noise/grunge. > When did I discount Ministry?

Well, you did say you were surprised to see them on a techno list...... [no flame intended]

quoted 1 line I like ministry a hell of a lot more than, say, almost all ambient music.

> I like ministry a hell of a lot more than, say, almost all ambient music.

Ditto. However, I listen to a hell of a lot more ambient now than I ever listened to Ministry.

quoted 1 line Don't get me wrong, Twitch is one of my favorite albums of all time.

> Don't get me wrong, Twitch is one of my favorite albums of all time.

OK, was there ever a 12" or remix of "The Angel" (even Razormaid, etc)? I've just been wondering about this/looking for years.

quoted 6 lines What else from 1984 would you rank deserving of a fairly high placement

>> What else from 1984 would you rank deserving of a fairly high placement >> on an "all-time" list? > Interesting question. New Order's "Power, Corruption and Lies" came > out around then... for a long time Blue Monday was the best selling > 12" single in the world. It definantly changed dance music. (I > believe Blue Monday came out on single in '83 though).

Absolutely. Section 25, anyone? A ton of Depeche Mode stuff, I'm sure came out in '84. "Satellite" and "Communicate" by Microchip League.

quoted 2 lines Also, remember I was surprised that Micro-Phonies was #9. Of course

> Also, remember I was surprised that Micro-Phonies was #9. Of course > the order was meaningless, so it isn't nearly as large a surprise.

Not as surprised as I was when I read that post *after* I'd mailed my response... I really should look for that reference book again - you know the one - the Journal of Duh. I guess I missed that issue.

quoted 6 lines BTW, how did Art Of Noise fare on the list? How does the list shake out in

>> BTW, how did Art Of Noise fare on the list? How does the list shake out in >> terms of "trendiness" vs. "mainstays". I wonder how much of the "all time" >> list didn't exist before 3 years ago (1990). Separates the visionaries from >> the "MTV buzz clip" artists, I think. > True. I would hope Art of Noise would be fairly high on the list. > And if Kraftwerk isn't represented the list is imho bogus :-)

Oh, man. Mega-ditto to that.

quoted 1 line (and... DEVO?)

> (and... DEVO?)

You are spot on. I'm sure Gary Numan fits in there somewhere too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael King mike%delta1@rex.cs.tulane.edu Delta Systems New Orleans, LA 70002-4938 Voice: 504.837.9835 Fax: 504.837.9838 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You can always tell a pioneer by the arrows in their back ------------------------------------------------------------------------

MKing>> but he had a plaque on the back wall of the booth of a picture MKing>> of a black leather jacket he had made and written in studs MKing>> was: MKing>> Music MKing>> is my MKing>> master is that where that came from, back in the days of punk, late 70's, the New York Rocker published that photo, its been part of my memory banks ever since, I even use that phrase myself. Music consumerism is my worst addiction...

quoted 5 lines Don't get me wrong, Twitch is one of my favorite albums of all time.

> > > Don't get me wrong, Twitch is one of my favorite albums of all time. > OK, was there ever a 12" or remix of "The Angel" (even Razormaid, etc)? > I've just been wondering about this/looking for years. >

Yes, it came out before the album with "Everyday is Halloween" on the b side, if I remember. Haven't had it out in a long time (I have the mixes on CD now). Actually I think Razormaid had a mix too but I don't know which one it would be on. The original 12" came out either on Sire or Wax Trax (I can't remember).

quoted 4 lines Absolutely. Section 25, anyone? A ton of Depeche Mode stuff, I'm sure came

> > Absolutely. Section 25, anyone? A ton of Depeche Mode stuff, I'm sure came > out in '84. "Satellite" and "Communicate" by Microchip League. >

"New York, New York" :-) Later, -H-

quoted 11 lines Don't get me wrong, Twitch is one of my favorite albums of all time.

> > > > > Don't get me wrong, Twitch is one of my favorite albums of all time. > > OK, was there ever a 12" or remix of "The Angel" (even Razormaid, etc)? > > I've just been wondering about this/looking for years. > > > > Yes, it came out before the album with "Everyday is Halloween" on the > b side, if I remember. Haven't had it out in a long time (I have the > mixes on CD now). Actually I think Razormaid had a mix too but I > don't know which one it would be on. The original 12" came out > either on Sire or Wax Trax (I can't remember).

Gads, I was dwelling in the cave of "duh" again. That single was "All day" b/w "Everyday...". Sorry. ObIDM: on now... "roy castle" , mu-ziq

On Fri, 30 Dec 1994, Michael King wrote: Re Ministry's "The Angel" -- Contains the line "no more fatal deaths" -- words to live by...

quoted 4 lines BTW, what exactly is "Electro"? I hear it bandied about, but nobody will say

> BTW, what exactly is "Electro"? I hear it bandied about, but nobody will say > what the prime examples of this style are. That way, if I have them in my > collection, I have a reference point in some of these reviews that are > coming out and refer to being "in the old-school electro" style.

Um, how about: Old skool -- "Planet Rock" - Afrika Bambatta "Clear" - Cybotron "Jam On It" - Newcleus "Egyptian Lover" - I forget :) (and many more -- those are just a few that might have scraped the bottom edge of the charts back in the day...) New school -- A lot of stuff coming out these days has elements of the sound -- 808 kickdrums mixed _way_ out front, stuttering "artificial" sounding snares, occasional vocodered vocals, stark digital chords instead of analogue pads: Drexciya is probably the best current example, but all sorts of artists are incorporating bits and pieces of the aesthetic: UR, (occasionally) Aphex Twin, etc. I think a lot of the current interest in electro is due to the fact that it's the very antithesis of a lot of the very lush, megaproduced records that have been so plentiful over the last couple of years. ----------------------------------------------------------------- dave walker, detroit art services _ marmoset@msen.com freeke robot luv

On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Dave Walker wrote:

quoted 3 lines Old skool --

> Old skool -- > > "Planet Rock" - Afrika Bambatta

Sometime this week I heard "World Destruction" by Time Zone. Don't really know if that qualifies as ol' skool, but what a great song! Dave .------------------------------------------dave.manning@dreamland.unomaha.edu | "It's in my brain now..." dmanning@cwis.unomaha.edu | dmanning@eworld.com .-------------------------------------------- dgmanning@aol.com

Dave Manning wrote:

quoted 2 lines Sometime this week I heard "World Destruction" by Time Zone. Don't really

> Sometime this week I heard "World Destruction" by Time Zone. Don't really > know if that qualifies as ol' skool, but what a great song!

yeah man, wicked! :) Say, wasn't good ole Bill Laswell involved in that one? Anyway, having been reminded of it I'm going to dig it out and have a listen tonight. J ^ James Skilton aka Steady J - jamess@firefox.co.uk ^---+ What's in the basket? My Brother!