Very well put.
Always nice when stupid blanket statements eventually turn into
reasonable/sensible discourse.
As an addition to one of your last comments. I'm always fascinated by
people's range of worth they attach to things, like :
"$14 is to much for a CD, especially when you can get a DVD for the
same amount...and that's like...a film"
Well congrats. I'm sure you'll be very happy watching that DVD three
times in your life, as opposed to that record. I mean really. I love
Planet Of The Apes (...the original) as much as I love say Slayer's
"Reign In Blood". Financially speaking I've probably contributed about
the same amount to owning both (bought the LP, bought the VHS, bought
the CD, bought the DVD). I can verify that my money has gone a lot
further with the music in terms of cash vs. enjoyment.
"$1 is way to much for a song".
Which in fairness people can make their own opinion as to relative
worth, but I love when people who say that have a $3 ring tone on their
phone. Like a $1 is way to much, but $3 for 15 seconds of the track
totally rules.
Yeah, anyway. Back to work. Honestly there's work to do here. I know it
seems crazy, but after most of the day gets eaten up counting money
there's still a few more things to do.
Jeff
On 24-Aug-05, at 5:08 PM, esa ruoho wrote:
quoted 198 lines this is prolly gonna get me shat upon.. but thats the present
> this is prolly gonna get me shat upon.. but thats the present
> situation anyway.. so here goes.
>
>
> --
> Enaomi18 wrote:
>
>> i can sell tracks myself with a website and paypal. i can get some
>> more
>> exposure by going on itunes, or another store. i see no need for a
>> label in
>> that scenario.
>>
> this only makes sense if you're working with <1000 copy labels who
> dont "care" about promotion, who dont "care" about getting
> distribution, who "dont have the money" to send promotional copies
> out, who dont maintain a steady stream of releases, and who take the
> "its just a hobby" type attitude.
>
> this is all well and good if these "its just a hobby"-labels are
> releasing music by "its just a hobby"-musicians - in fact, it probably
> doesnt matter to either of the two (label/musician) since they both
> have a job "gotta pay the bills" stylee -- which basically means that
> there is no passion, and NO lust to make the machine work better. this
> type of thinking, when massively repeated by huge amounts of
> labelbosses/musicians, leads to the result that even the consumers
> think "they got day-jobs.. they'll be ok .. i dont need to support
> this" and just ignore everything.
>
> i look at these "30 cents to artists" things and man oh man.. digital
> distribution is all great, I SUPPOSE, but last i checked, most
> digitaldistribution-sites are full of labels, and full of artists --
> and it would seem (i wont bet my life on this) that most do not have
> any kind of promotion going on for the tracks.. "30 cents for a track"
> is probably great, if you already have food on your table,
> electricity, water, heat, and a home, you can use it to buy a lollipop
> -- but what i really - what i REALLY dont get is..
> if 30cents per track, means that 10 people are going to download it,
> within a few years (yes, its a caricature - but do ya get me??) ,
> that'll mean that the hours spent working on the track have amounted
> to a magic 3USD.
>
> im currently in the process of working out a
> digital-distribution-test. my albums "container" (deFocus/2000)
> "spaces" (u-cover/2001) "showcase" (merck/2003) are all going to be
> released on various digital distribution sites - where it will be me,
> and the guy facilitating the multiple
> digitaldistribution-site-contracts putting it on. i have no idea how
> things are going to work - and as far as i can see, it does seem like
> i will have to push the fact of this, with the hopes that i will get a
> few dollars out of it. if i get 50cents, i'll be pretty happy -
> because it'll be _something_. i have no utopian dreams that thousands
> of people are going to opt to downloading them from said places
> (interestingly - the list of DD-sites they will be on, seems to change
> daily, from 35 to a max of 40, but without me being told which ones
> they are -- again, its a very low-risk, it could help -- but what im
> looking at is -- is there going to be any kind of promotional machine
> promoting the information that they are going to be available? how is
> it going to work out? i see no reason in jettisoning any new music to
> such a venture before i see that there is an interest.. i mean, whats
> the use of having something on a DD-site if you're going to get say,
> 15cents per download -- and no-one downloads? - again, for some of
> you, it'll probably be great if one person downloads something,
> because you have a dayjob - i on the other hand, do not... so it'll be
> interesting to see how this pans out)))
>
> what i have to say is this:
> if an artist has a shop, if they go to a gig, and they bring cds, -
> then if you really believe its worth it - support them. you might be
> surprised to later find out, that at least a handful of people
> actually see their daily bread out of these sporadic
> support/sales/donations.. its a risky life - and seeing other people
> treat your lifeblood as a hobby - i.e., half-day label-bosses - later
> on leads to a distinct lack of impetus to actually finish anything.
> also, there is NO identifiable difference between musical-hobbyists
> trying to get demos heard, and musicLIVERS trying to get demos heard -
> with the desperate hope of getting some food on the table. its also
> interesting that anyone who speaks openly of their venture to support
> themselves entirely out of their musical work - gets told "get a
> day-job".. this kind of "taking the unsustainability of life with a
> musical career for granted - and denying the possibility of it being
> possible to actually make any headway, denying it - and presenting
> that denial as TRUTH" is extremely distressing.
>
> i will work my utmost to get to the position where 99% of my time isnt
> spent wondering how im going to eat next, or if im going to have a
> roof over me - and i have been working at it since april2002 - when
> the company i briefly worked for (my only job, ever, im 27 as of
> 26.oct) went bankrupt. i do NOT intend to work. i REFUSE to listen to
> people who say "get a job - this'll never get you anywhere" - what do
> THEY know - except they're basically repeating a negative, hopeless
> view of how this world works, and affecting everyone around them with
> that attitude of 'you cant make it - get a job'..
> the only sources of money i have are:
> - finding a few cents on the street (you'd be surprised how much
> finding a 5 cent coin on the ground means when you have nothing)
> - getting paid for performing live
> - selling records out of my own webshop (getting your own records from
> labels that released you -- seems to be much more of a given than
> "advances" and "royaltystatements" (what with most labels not knowing
> what those two things mean - as they're too "business-like")
> - producing a remix for an artist (and this normally means getting a
> few copies of the record (see the one before))
> - getting random donations from people who feel what im doing.
> - being foodwise supported by my significant other - she refuses to
> see me starve (which i, basically, would.) - and also believes that
> music is what im supposed to be doing here, on this planet, in this
> life.
>
> this is how i survive. it somehow works out - but its a very
> stop/start venture.
>
> from this type of viewpoint, to see anyone taking the piss about
> 'labels dont mean anything' - i feel the person is being ridiculous.
> if you look at any of the more on-top-of-it labels, they do these
> things:
> 1) organize album launches
> 2) organize record tours
> 3) organize worldwide tours
> 4) license tracks to other labels
> 5) publish tracks / licensing them to commercials
> 6) they have their machine ready to get money out of radioplay, or any
> other such
> 7) have proper worldwide distribution
> 8) have a promotional circuit of press-reviewers/interviewers/
> magazine contacts / DJs, etc - to create the hubbub, to raise the
> profile of the artists that they are pushing.
> 9) have multiple means of getting the record out there (label-shop,
> digital distribution shop, creation of musicvideos and promoting
> thereof)
> 10) send royaltystatements, - and pay the agreed-upon sums of money,
> on time, resulting in
> 11) they ARE _caring about the welfare of the artist_.
>
> - and those are the labels that everyone (music-hobbyist and
> music-liver) are trying to get on. and - again - the music-hobbyists
> crowd out the music-livers, and who's to say whats more worthy etc -
> but for everyone who "gets thru" there are dozens upon dozens upon
> dozens of people who have worthy creations - but never get heard (or
> they settle for less - and get a little ditty out every once in a
> while - whilst being sent one copy of the record..) it also doesnt
> help that most forums seem to be full of extremely bored people who
> are nonplussed by everything, signed or unsigned - just because they
> can put something down and disrespect the effort involved - they get
> on a powertrip and basically raise a stink where once was a savour..
>
> once you have a suitably run, well-setup label behind you, that
> supports you, and allows you time to develop, that gives you an
> advance (=basically commissions you to do an album or an ep), all the
> while the label having such a profile that marketing people get in
> touch wtih them to get their music on commercials - i do NOT see how
> anyone can say that labels dont matter - and that they're a completely
> useless waste of time.
>
> and, ALSO, one thing i come across most of the time is this: 'you're
> not gonna get on a label like that - so why dont you start your own?'
> this basically means having to reinvent the wheel, and keep
> reinventing it, whilst no-one cares about your fledgling label, you
> have to put all amounts of hours into getting the
> distribution/promotion-circuit going - and you're starting out of
> NOTHING. again - its probably a great hobby to press a few hundred
> records and send promos and its probably VERY fun - but man - how many
> other people think exactly like that - whilst commuting home from
> their dayjob? the type of investment required to press a decent amount
> of records, and the time invested into getting the recognition and
> assuring the flow of sales - means that you can basically give up on
> music altogether.
> those who can set up a label of their own and sell self-published
> cds/vinyls and survive - kudos. its probably easier with bands (more
> people to waste time on that).. but it is impossible to make happen
> for someone who doesnt even have the money to press 50 CDs and send
> them out.
>
>
> yes i would be very interested in seeing what bleep total sales, or
> even average sales are, per a label that is on bleep - just to see how
> many people actually pay for digital music - when a label such as warp
> records is behind it.
>
> i find it singularly interesting how consumers are like 'oh.. an euro
> per track.. ohhh.. if only it were like. 20cents.. i'd go for it in a
> second'.. like a single SONG isnt worth more than an euro? i'd rather
> sell 1 copy of a CD of mine to a person, for 20eur - over paypal -
> than see 100 people download a track via digital distribution - and
> get 1USD out of the whole result.
>
>
> a pet isnt just for the summer - its for life. same with music.
>
> ----
> humbly yours, esa juhani ruoho
> http://www.lackluster.org/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org