179,854Messages
9,130Senders
30Years
342mboxes

← archive index

Re: [idm] Warp's still got it

68 messages · 27 participants · spans 10 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 9 subjects: (ot) shopping for an ipod · (ot) shopping for an ipod - new ipods today · ipod substitutes anyone? · merck and schematic/diamond ice/outside of idm · …
2004-10-24 20:49Albers, Brian [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
└─ 2004-10-25 00:21Alan Lucas Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
├─ 2004-10-25 00:30Adam Piontek Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
└─ 2004-10-25 01:19John/Slackonomics Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
2004-10-25 15:51John/Slackonomics Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
└─ 2004-10-25 21:49Shane Huddleston Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
└─ 2004-10-25 23:16Adam Piontek Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
├─ 2004-10-25 23:26Shane Huddleston Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ ├─ 2004-10-26 00:58Tim Moore Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ │ └─ 2004-10-27 01:13xenlab.ezrpm Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ │ ├─ 2004-10-28 19:09dj pie Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ │ └─ 2004-10-29 16:44jessica Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ └─ 2004-10-26 12:31Robert Feuchtl Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
├─ 2004-10-25 23:28Alan Lucas Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ ├─ 2004-10-26 13:48Adam Piontek Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ │ ├─ 2004-10-26 14:14John/Slackonomics Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ │ └─ 2004-10-26 16:46Dan Haskovec Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ │ └─ 2004-10-26 17:19Alan Lucas Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ └─ 2004-10-26 18:19Dave Watson Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ └─ 2004-10-26 18:21Adam Piontek Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod - new ipods today
└─ 2004-10-26 09:32Neil Walsh Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
├─ 2004-10-26 09:36muffin Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
│ └─ 2004-10-26 10:02Neil Walsh Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
└─ 2004-10-26 18:23Dave Watson Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
2004-10-29 05:58seek Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
└─ 2004-10-30 16:40dj pie Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
└─ 2004-10-30 16:47dj pie Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
2004-10-30 17:37seek Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
├─ 2004-10-30 17:45Robert Feuchtl [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
│ └─ 2004-10-31 08:25Enquiries Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
│ └─ 2004-10-31 15:05Robert Feuchtl Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
│ └─ 2004-11-01 17:10Ian Monroe RE: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
│ ├─ 2004-11-01 17:30muffin Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
│ ├─ 2004-11-01 18:25Jeff Birgbauer Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
│ │ └─ 2004-11-01 20:07Robert Feuchtl Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
│ └─ 2004-11-02 04:31Irene McC [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ ├─ 2004-11-02 04:39Satan Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ ├─ 2004-11-02 00:19Nicholas Bolibruch Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ └─ 2004-11-02 08:35John/Slackonomics Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ ├─ 2004-11-02 07:36Nicholas Bolibruch Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ │ ├─ 2004-11-02 13:21chthonic streams Re: [idm] what's wrong with speed
│ │ │ │ │ └─ 2004-11-02 13:24muffin Re: [idm] what's wrong with speed
│ │ │ │ └─ 2004-11-02 15:29Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ ├─ 2004-11-02 12:48chthonic streams Re: [idm] what's wrong with music
│ │ │ └─ 2004-11-02 17:27Ian Monroe RE: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ ├─ 2004-11-02 17:39Robert Feuchtl Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ │ └─ 2004-11-03 04:25Irene McC Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ │ └─ 2004-11-03 14:57Robert Feuchtl Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ ├─ 2004-11-02 18:05muffin Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ └─ 2004-11-02 20:04John/Slackonomics Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ └─ 2004-11-02 04:53Rick Strom Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ ├─ 2004-11-02 05:14Satan Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ ├─ 2004-11-02 06:22andrew jones Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ └─ 2004-11-02 07:51John/Slackonomics Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ ├─ 2004-11-02 08:49Rick Strom Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ │ └─ 2004-11-02 08:59John/Slackonomics Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ │ └─ 2004-11-03 02:43xenlab.ezrpm Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ └─ 2004-11-02 14:41Robert Feuchtl Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ ├─ 2004-11-02 15:25Fisk Industries Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
│ └─ 2004-11-02 15:32Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
└─ 2004-10-31 16:43dj pie Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
2004-11-02 13:24Alan Lucas Re: [idm] what's wrong with music
└─ 2004-11-02 13:52chthonic streams Re: [idm] what's wrong with music
2004-11-02 17:10seek Re: [idm] what's right with music: Merck and Schematic
├─ 2004-11-02 17:30basura. Re: [idm] Merck and Schematic/Diamond Ice/Outside of IDM
│ └─ 2004-11-02 18:34andrew jones Re: [idm] Merck and Schematic/Diamond Ice/Outside of IDM
└─ 2004-11-02 18:13StaticBeats [idm] Warp's still got it
└─ 2004-11-02 19:15Alan Lucas Re: [idm] Warp's still got it
expand allcollapse allclick any summary to toggle that message
2004-10-24 20:49Albers, BrianI think I'm finally gonna break down and pick me up an Ipod. Anybody know any websites wit
From:
Albers, Brian
To:
Date:
Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:49:12 -0500
Subject:
[idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <AF5AEE873B4E5B44BCFCAAD5F1A96373BBF9A2@SATMAIL03.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com>
I think I'm finally gonna break down and pick me up an Ipod. Anybody know any websites with a good price for a 40G? I was gonna go Ebay, but they end up being $375US or so, which is only slightly less than the $400 price at the stores. I'm new to all this- What's the difference between 3rd and 4th generation? I'm not gonna wait for the 60G because as it is now I've got 35G in my Mac which is only about 1/2 my cds (encoded as AAC which is slightly smaller than mp3), so I'll end up needing two eventually. Any accessories that I should consider? Thanks for the advice. Brian.
2004-10-25 00:21Alan LucasHeh... you should consider a PC and a Creative player. I have a Zen that was initially a 3
From:
Alan Lucas
To:
incidental derogatory mnemonics
Date:
Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:21:40 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
[idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <5e21321c0410241721cbc5b6a@mail.gmail.com>
Heh... you should consider a PC and a Creative player. I have a Zen that was initially a 30gb HD (purchased new last year for $255, now you can get the 60gb model for just $319), but I threw a 60gb drive in there for only another $115. And I can swap the battery myself. The Creative players are slightly bigger, and admittedly not as stylish, but the sound quality is better and they're infinitely easier to mess around with. I read somewhere about getting them to work on a Mac (on nomadness.net, I think), but I can't find drivers anywhere. Geez. A 60gb iPod will probably run... $600? On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:49:12 -0500, Albers, Brian <balbers@premiereradio.com> wrote:
quoted 11 lines I think I'm finally gonna break down and pick me up an Ipod.> I think I'm finally gonna break down and pick me up an Ipod. > > Anybody know any websites with a good price for a 40G? I was gonna go Ebay, but they end up being $375US or so, which is only slightly less than the $400 price at the stores. > > I'm new to all this- What's the difference between 3rd and 4th generation? I'm not gonna wait for the 60G because as it is now I've got 35G in my Mac which is only about 1/2 my cds (encoded as AAC which is slightly smaller than mp3), so I'll end up needing two eventually. > > Any accessories that I should consider? > > Thanks for the advice. Brian. > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-25 00:30Adam PiontekI have an iPod mini and it's a breeze. I have no complaints. Can't give advice on where to
From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Date:
Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:30:40 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <192F27D2-261D-11D9-92C3-000D9329098A@damek.org>
I have an iPod mini and it's a breeze. I have no complaints. Can't give advice on where to get cheaper prices, but if you're interested in accessory suggestions, I can't live without my Griffin iTrip to broadcast on FM... I also use it instead of a USB flash drive to carry my files around, since I always have it with me anyway. -adam piontek On Oct 24, 2004, at 8:21 PM, Alan Lucas wrote:
quoted 37 lines Heh... you should consider a PC and a Creative player. I have a Zen> Heh... you should consider a PC and a Creative player. I have a Zen > that was initially a 30gb HD (purchased new last year for $255, now > you can get the 60gb model for just $319), but I threw a 60gb drive in > there for only another $115. And I can swap the battery myself. > > The Creative players are slightly bigger, and admittedly not as > stylish, but the sound quality is better and they're infinitely easier > to mess around with. I read somewhere about getting them to work on a > Mac (on nomadness.net, I think), but I can't find drivers anywhere. > > Geez. A 60gb iPod will probably run... $600? > > > On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:49:12 -0500, Albers, Brian > <balbers@premiereradio.com> wrote: >> I think I'm finally gonna break down and pick me up an Ipod. >> >> Anybody know any websites with a good price for a 40G? I was gonna go >> Ebay, but they end up being $375US or so, which is only slightly less >> than the $400 price at the stores. >> >> I'm new to all this- What's the difference between 3rd and 4th >> generation? I'm not gonna wait for the 60G because as it is now I've >> got 35G in my Mac which is only about 1/2 my cds (encoded as AAC >> which is slightly smaller than mp3), so I'll end up needing two >> eventually. >> >> Any accessories that I should consider? >> >> Thanks for the advice. Brian. >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-25 01:19John/SlackonomicsOn Oct 24, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Alan Lucas wrote: > Heh... you should consider a PC and a Cre
From:
John/Slackonomics
To:
Date:
Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:19:34 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <EE5DEA2C-2623-11D9-9E49-000502B18FAA@slackonomics.com>
On Oct 24, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Alan Lucas wrote:
quoted 11 lines Heh... you should consider a PC and a Creative player. I have a Zen> Heh... you should consider a PC and a Creative player. I have a Zen > that was initially a 30gb HD (purchased new last year for $255, now > you can get the 60gb model for just $319), but I threw a 60gb drive in > there for only another $115. And I can swap the battery myself. > > The Creative players are slightly bigger, and admittedly not as > stylish, but the sound quality is better and they're infinitely easier > to mess around with. I read somewhere about getting them to work on a > Mac (on nomadness.net, I think), but I can't find drivers anywhere. > > Geez. A 60gb iPod will probably run... $600?
The top-of-the-line iPod is only $399. Secondly, the rumored 60 gb iPod is supposed to have video/color screen, which will affect the cost, and no, it won't be $600. It will probably be $499, but that's speculation. Thirdly, the Creative players do not have better sound quality (Tom's Hardware gave them about an even: http://www20.tomshardware.com/mobile/20041007/creative_labs_zen_touch -03.html ). Nor do they have as good an interface/ease-of-use (no scrollwheel?? yeck.. oh, and the layout looks like a complete ripoff of the iPod to boot). I don't think there is anything that comes close to the iTunes/iPod combo in terms of ease-of-use with regard to cataloging, playing, burning, importing, ripping and especially synchronizing on either platform. Combine this with the fact that iTunes Music Store is built-in, and is by far the most popular legal music store (with something around 60-70% of the market!)... there's a *reason* the iPod and iTunes Music Store are the most popular in their respective categories. Oh, and the iPod battery is user-swappable as well. -- Mr. Tangent [the binary police] www.mrtangent.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-25 15:51John/SlackonomicsOn Oct 24, 2004, at 10:03 PM, Alan Lucas wrote: > Sorry, but there's just no arguing the s
From:
John/Slackonomics
To:
Date:
Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:51:58 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <CD92CF97-269D-11D9-9E4A-000502B18FAA@slackonomics.com>
On Oct 24, 2004, at 10:03 PM, Alan Lucas wrote:
quoted 4 lines Sorry, but there's just no arguing the sound quality. The Creative> Sorry, but there's just no arguing the sound quality. The Creative > players have better sound quality than iPods. It's not a question of > opinion. The hardware is just better. The Creative's are 98db SNR. > Apple doesn't provide that information. I wonder why that might be...
Heh, you say it's not a question of opinion yet you don't even know the SNR of the Apple. Without knowing the SNR of the iPod, you're simply stating your opinion. The choice of headphones also are a consideration. Several other review sites give them equal reviews with regard to sound quality, so I'm inclined to believe them. -- Mr. Tangent [the binary police] www.mrtangent.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-25 21:49Shane HuddlestonHow do all the iPod fans tolerate the lack of gapless playback? I consider iPods to be bro
From:
Shane Huddleston
To:
John/Slackonomics
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:49:17 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <c2dd664b0410251449cc138e3@mail.gmail.com>
How do all the iPod fans tolerate the lack of gapless playback? I consider iPods to be broken out of the box for that reason alone and simply couldn't use one without throwing it out the bus window within 5 or 10 minutes. Or, has Apple fixed that recently? My money's on the Rio Karma. It has it's flaws (doesn't everything) but has perfect gapless playback for MP3 and WMA and fully supports all features of OGG and FLAC formats. Also cool is that the docking station supports ethernet so you can just pop your player on any standing network and access from any machine. Complaints: can't mount it as a drive in Windows Explorer (or OSX/Linux): non-music file transfers have to be done with proprietary RioTaxi software. Also, there's only a 20GB version so far. Something bigger is on the way, but probably not until 2005. -Shane --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-25 23:16Adam PiontekIt's really not that big a deal (to me). The ease of use (iTunes, hardware design, easy cr
From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Date:
Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:16:00 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <D587EBE8-26DB-11D9-9B1D-000D9329098A@damek.org>
It's really not that big a deal (to me). The ease of use (iTunes, hardware design, easy cross-platform external storage) makes it up for me. It'd be nice if they'd do gapless, but I just plain don't really care. And I had actually thought I'd be too annoyed by it, but I'm not. Ogg/FLAC? Don't have any. Well, OK, I have some Oggs from when I went through my Ogg phase a couple years ago, but I just transcode them to m4a. In fact, I transcode all my MP3s that are greater than 128k too, because they get much smaller and I can fit more music on my puny mini. Sure, Ogg can be small, too, but I think even if every other player supported Ogg, I'd still go with an iPod for the ease of use and iTunes. Until the competitors' software was as good as it. As of now, I don't think there's anybody that matches iTunes for goodness. The Rio Karma seems like one of the best of the competitors, but it lacks too much, if you ask me. The complaints you mention are deal-breakers for me, and I'd add the interface design as being pretty lacking, too. That all being said, I'd love for somebody to release a real valid competitor to the iPod just so Apple has some good competition. The key is matching iTunes, and making file transfers easy. And probably the click-wheel at this point... seems the only way to go. Aside from "style", I think those are the real reasons people buy the iPod. -adamp On Oct 25, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Shane Huddleston wrote:
quoted 22 lines How do all the iPod fans tolerate the lack of gapless playback? I> How do all the iPod fans tolerate the lack of gapless playback? I > consider iPods to be broken out of the box for that reason alone and > simply couldn't use one without throwing it out the bus window within > 5 or 10 minutes. Or, has Apple fixed that recently? > > My money's on the Rio Karma. It has it's flaws (doesn't everything) > but has perfect gapless playback for MP3 and WMA and fully supports > all features of OGG and FLAC formats. Also cool is that the docking > station supports ethernet so you can just pop your player on any > standing network and access from any machine. > > Complaints: can't mount it as a drive in Windows Explorer (or > OSX/Linux): non-music file transfers have to be done with proprietary > RioTaxi software. Also, there's only a 20GB version so far. Something > bigger is on the way, but probably not until 2005. > > -Shane > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-25 23:26Shane HuddlestonInteresting. Different strokes, I guess. I think the Rio Karma interface is great, for wha
From:
Shane Huddleston
To:
Date:
Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:26:28 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <c2dd664b04102516267eea324e@mail.gmail.com>
Interesting. Different strokes, I guess. I think the Rio Karma interface is great, for what it's worth. Maybe it's not as "intuitive" but after 10 minutes of fiddling with it you get past that. This question derails the thread a tad, but what exactly is the point/coolness of iTunes? Isn't it just a store where you can buy AACs/MP3s? I've never bothered to install it because I wanted to be able to browse the selection of music before installing such a huge program. I've learned the hard way from installing crap like RealOne and having it take over my computer. Maybe I'm totally missing out on something important. I'm not being ironic here... seriously, what would I want iTunes for? Especially if I don't have an iPod. -Shane --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 00:58Tim MooreOn Oct 25, 2004, at 7:26 PM, Shane Huddleston wrote: > Interesting. Different strokes, I g
From:
Tim Moore
To:
Shane Huddleston
Cc:
IDM List
Date:
Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:58:05 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <185BE586-26EA-11D9-9000-000A9578A04E@Moore.name>
On Oct 25, 2004, at 7:26 PM, Shane Huddleston wrote:
quoted 15 lines Interesting. Different strokes, I guess. I think the Rio Karma> Interesting. Different strokes, I guess. I think the Rio Karma > interface is great, for what it's worth. Maybe it's not as "intuitive" > but after 10 minutes of fiddling with it you get past that. > > This question derails the thread a tad, but what exactly is the > point/coolness of iTunes? Isn't it just a store where you can buy > AACs/MP3s? I've never bothered to install it because I wanted to be > able to browse the selection of music before installing such a huge > program. I've learned the hard way from installing crap like RealOne > and having it take over my computer. > > Maybe I'm totally missing out on something important. I'm not being > ironic here... seriously, what would I want iTunes for? Especially if > I don't have an iPod. >
I don't really buy stuff from the iTunes store, so I don't even think of the program in that way. For me, the appeal is that it is simply the best tool I have found for managing a large library of music. I know that a lot of people have cobbled together custom scripts to do this themselves, and if you've got the expertise, time and inclination, that may offer you more power. But iTunes makes it really easy off the shelf, and gives you a decent amount of power with things like Smart Playlists and the ability to use AppleScripts or COM automation to fill in the gaps. I think the whole experience is a lot better on the Mac, where it's really well integrated with the rest of the system, than on Windows where it doesn't fit in as well. But even on Windows, I haven't found a better program for managing large libraries. I used to dislike tools that tried to take ownership of my music collection (organizing the file structure, tags, etc) because they didn't do it very well. Now with iTunes I wouldn't have it any other way. -- Tim Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-27 01:13xenlab.ezrpmI second iTunes for managing a large music collection. You can even turn off the iTunes mu
From:
xenlab.ezrpm
To:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:13:39 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <417EF643.7090306@ezrpm.com>
I second iTunes for managing a large music collection. You can even turn off the iTunes music store so it doesn't take screen realestate. I also use a plugin called now playing that dumps my current song in iTunes to an XML file. It even uploads a copy to my web server. I then read the xml file into my blog template and amuse myself by seeing what I'm playing show up on my site. I'm still looking for an easy way to shoutcast what I'm playing in iTunes so that you can click the name of the track on my site and start listenting to my stream instantly. I found a free shoutcast server on AnalogX.com but from what I can tell it only works with Winamp. Give iTunes a shot at your collection - it's the fucking bee's knees and pollen stuck there in. mad love, .eric * * *xenlab (music) { * / .nfo + d.load =/ http://xenlab.ezrpm.com/ <http://xenlab.ezrpm.com> *}* Tim Moore wrote:
quoted 35 lines On Oct 25, 2004, at 7:26 PM, Shane Huddleston wrote:> > On Oct 25, 2004, at 7:26 PM, Shane Huddleston wrote: > >> Interesting. Different strokes, I guess. I think the Rio Karma >> interface is great, for what it's worth. Maybe it's not as "intuitive" >> but after 10 minutes of fiddling with it you get past that. >> >> This question derails the thread a tad, but what exactly is the >> point/coolness of iTunes? Isn't it just a store where you can buy >> AACs/MP3s? I've never bothered to install it because I wanted to be >> able to browse the selection of music before installing such a huge >> program. I've learned the hard way from installing crap like RealOne >> and having it take over my computer. >> >> Maybe I'm totally missing out on something important. I'm not being >> ironic here... seriously, what would I want iTunes for? Especially if >> I don't have an iPod. >> > > I don't really buy stuff from the iTunes store, so I don't even think > of the program in that way. For me, the appeal is that it is simply > the best tool I have found for managing a large library of music. I > know that a lot of people have cobbled together custom scripts to do > this themselves, and if you've got the expertise, time and > inclination, that may offer you more power. But iTunes makes it really > easy off the shelf, and gives you a decent amount of power with things > like Smart Playlists and the ability to use AppleScripts or COM > automation to fill in the gaps. I think the whole experience is a lot > better on the Mac, where it's really well integrated with the rest of > the system, than on Windows where it doesn't fit in as well. But even > on Windows, I haven't found a better program for managing large > libraries. I used to dislike tools that tried to take ownership of my > music collection (organizing the file structure, tags, etc) because > they didn't do it very well. Now with iTunes I wouldn't have it any > other way.
2004-10-28 19:09dj piei have a dell digital jukebox, and i love it. it was far cheaper than the comparable 20gb
From:
dj pie
To:
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:09:53 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <3394bfe0041028120925d6c7cf@mail.gmail.com>
i have a dell digital jukebox, and i love it. it was far cheaper than the comparable 20gb ipod, and with the $20 3rd party software from red chair (dudebox), it works fantastically with my PCs. i can update ID3 tags and recategorize music just by dragging and dropping into folders with the explorer-type interface. also, it fits perfectly in my robot cupholder, and works with either the FM transmitter or the cassette adapter in the car. it is shiny matte aluminum, and feels good and solid, nearly indestructible. ipods are pretty, but i personally didn't like the jogwheel, it confused me. i prefer the little scrollywheel that the jukebox has. -rachel -- [gilmore] i think Kerry could win if he just promised to get Halo2 out on time. http://piesarenice.net funkier than you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-29 16:44jessicaA program you can use to broadcast your iTunes: http://www.rogueamoeba.com/nicecast/ it ev
From:
jessica
To:
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:44:54 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <41827386.9030904@undef.net>
A program you can use to broadcast your iTunes: http://www.rogueamoeba.com/nicecast/ it even has a built in streaming server so you can use it to broadcast directly from your Mac, or you can broadcast to another Shoutcast or Icecast server. I've been using it since February for my webcast, and have had no complaints thus far. Jessica -- http://junkast.org xenlab.ezrpm wrote:
quoted 65 lines I second iTunes for managing a large music collection. You can even turn> I second iTunes for managing a large music collection. You can even turn > off the iTunes music store so it doesn't take screen realestate. I also > use a plugin called now playing that dumps my current song in iTunes to > an XML file. It even uploads a copy to my web server. I then read the > xml file into my blog template and amuse myself by seeing what I'm > playing show up on my site. I'm still looking for an easy way to > shoutcast what I'm playing in iTunes so that you can click the name of > the track on my site and start listenting to my stream instantly. I > found a free shoutcast server on AnalogX.com but from what I can tell it > only works with Winamp. > > Give iTunes a shot at your collection - it's the fucking bee's knees and > pollen stuck there in. > > > > > > mad love, > .eric > * * *xenlab (music) { > * / .nfo + d.load =/ http://xenlab.ezrpm.com/ <http://xenlab.ezrpm.com> > *}* > > > Tim Moore wrote: > >> >> On Oct 25, 2004, at 7:26 PM, Shane Huddleston wrote: >> >>> Interesting. Different strokes, I guess. I think the Rio Karma >>> interface is great, for what it's worth. Maybe it's not as "intuitive" >>> but after 10 minutes of fiddling with it you get past that. >>> >>> This question derails the thread a tad, but what exactly is the >>> point/coolness of iTunes? Isn't it just a store where you can buy >>> AACs/MP3s? I've never bothered to install it because I wanted to be >>> able to browse the selection of music before installing such a huge >>> program. I've learned the hard way from installing crap like RealOne >>> and having it take over my computer. >>> >>> Maybe I'm totally missing out on something important. I'm not being >>> ironic here... seriously, what would I want iTunes for? Especially if >>> I don't have an iPod. >>> >> >> I don't really buy stuff from the iTunes store, so I don't even think >> of the program in that way. For me, the appeal is that it is simply >> the best tool I have found for managing a large library of music. I >> know that a lot of people have cobbled together custom scripts to do >> this themselves, and if you've got the expertise, time and >> inclination, that may offer you more power. But iTunes makes it really >> easy off the shelf, and gives you a decent amount of power with things >> like Smart Playlists and the ability to use AppleScripts or COM >> automation to fill in the gaps. I think the whole experience is a lot >> better on the Mac, where it's really well integrated with the rest of >> the system, than on Windows where it doesn't fit in as well. But even >> on Windows, I haven't found a better program for managing large >> libraries. I used to dislike tools that tried to take ownership of my >> music collection (organizing the file structure, tags, etc) because >> they didn't do it very well. Now with iTunes I wouldn't have it any >> other way. > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 12:31Robert FeuchtlShane Huddleston wrote: >Interesting. Different strokes, I guess. I think the Rio Karma >i
From:
Robert Feuchtl
To:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:31:45 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <417E43B1.5080305@groove.de>
Shane Huddleston wrote:
quoted 5 lines Interesting. Different strokes, I guess. I think the Rio Karma>Interesting. Different strokes, I guess. I think the Rio Karma >interface is great, for what it's worth. Maybe it's not as "intuitive" >but after 10 minutes of fiddling with it you get past that. > >
they all work with clients.. i guess for security issues. iTunes in europe is crap, only commercial music available until now.. and apple is really trying hard to get full control over all rights management and is behaving like a bitch to indie-labels. we´ll see if it gets any better, apple now is not like apple 10 years ago. managment is taking far too much cocaine.. leads to egocentric mental states... try www.finetunes.de if you are into better music anyway and if you are located in europe .. the only annoying problem I see is that the "pre-listening music"-function plays the first 15 seconds or so only.. so I know whats all the intros of the tracks, but not the track itself :) robert
quoted 21 lines This question derails the thread a tad, but what exactly is the>This question derails the thread a tad, but what exactly is the >point/coolness of iTunes? Isn't it just a store where you can buy >AACs/MP3s? I've never bothered to install it because I wanted to be >able to browse the selection of music before installing such a huge >program. I've learned the hard way from installing crap like RealOne >and having it take over my computer. > >Maybe I'm totally missing out on something important. I'm not being >ironic here... seriously, what would I want iTunes for? Especially if >I don't have an iPod. > >-Shane > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >
-- B O B H U M I D @ G R O O V E M A G A Z I N E ( t e c h n o l o g i c a l _ e d i t o r ) c/o robert feuchtl aachener strasse 72 50674 köln germany +49 (0)221 42 333 42 +49 (0)163 514 85 35 servicelinks: http://www.groove.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-25 23:28Alan LucasI will say that Redchair Software's Notmad Explorer makes using the Zen with the PC pure e
From:
Alan Lucas
To:
Adam Piontek
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:28:51 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <5e21321c041025162815d97796@mail.gmail.com>
I will say that Redchair Software's Notmad Explorer makes using the Zen with the PC pure easy. I don't even touch any of the Creative stuff. I know they also have versions for iPods, Dell DJs, Rios, and maybe the iRiver, but of course I haven't used any of those, but I'd expect the features to be similar. I can edit multiple tags for files already on the player, do easy syncs, all kinds of stuff that the included Creative software either couldn't do, or was just so obtuse about. And here's something that I consider an advantage over the iPod - the buttons for the Zen are on the side of the player, so when it's in my pocket, I don't have to look at it, or take it out of my pocket to adjust volume, play/pause, or switch tracks. It seems like some of that would be more difficult for a device where the controls are all on the front. obIDM - a good portion of my IDM collection resides on my Zen. Later, Alan np: DJ /Rupture - Special Gunpowder On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:16:00 -0400, Adam Piontek <adam@damek.org> wrote:
quoted 30 lines It's really not that big a deal (to me). The ease of use (iTunes,> It's really not that big a deal (to me). The ease of use (iTunes, > hardware design, easy cross-platform external storage) makes it up for > me. It'd be nice if they'd do gapless, but I just plain don't really > care. And I had actually thought I'd be too annoyed by it, but I'm > not. > > Ogg/FLAC? Don't have any. Well, OK, I have some Oggs from when I went > through my Ogg phase a couple years ago, but I just transcode them to > m4a. In fact, I transcode all my MP3s that are greater than 128k too, > because they get much smaller and I can fit more music on my puny mini. > > Sure, Ogg can be small, too, but I think even if every other player > supported Ogg, I'd still go with an iPod for the ease of use and > iTunes. Until the competitors' software was as good as it. As of now, > I don't think there's anybody that matches iTunes for goodness. > > The Rio Karma seems like one of the best of the competitors, but it > lacks too much, if you ask me. The complaints you mention are > deal-breakers for me, and I'd add the interface design as being pretty > lacking, too. > > That all being said, I'd love for somebody to release a real valid > competitor to the iPod just so Apple has some good competition. The > key is matching iTunes, and making file transfers easy. And probably > the click-wheel at this point... seems the only way to go. Aside from > "style", I think those are the real reasons people buy the iPod. > -adamp > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 13:48Adam PiontekYeah, if you're not using a music library program like iTunes, and you're still dealing wi
From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:48:36 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <417E55B4.30407@damek.org>
Yeah, if you're not using a music library program like iTunes, and you're still dealing with your music files directly, having some integrated way of accessing the files on your portable probably would be a big bonus. As far as iTunes, what Tim Moore said. It's really just a program for managing your music library, you don't need an iPod to use it. In fact, I used it for over half a year without having an iPod. I suppose it's what convinced me to get one. One trick I didn't learn for a while - the listing of your library really is a direct interface to the files; you can drag songs out of iTunes to anywhere on the filesystem and it'll copy them there. So you have the benefit of a well-designed interface to a database of your music, plus still working "directly" with your files. I very quickly stopped worrying about where the files themselves were stored. It just doesn't matter. As long as they're backed up when I first get them so I can restore my library if it ever comes to that. It's just really been a load off my mind. As for editing tags on the player, well, your player shows up in iTunes and you can edit files on the player. It also shows up in your file system and you can access files that way, too. The music files are "hidden", but A) there's really no need to see them, you work with them in iTunes, and B) if you really need to get at them (because iTunes doesn't let you copy *from* the iPod), just have hidden files & folders visble in your file browser and you can go into the iPod_Control folder and search for the track you want. Buttons? I always reach into my pocket and adjust the volume switch tracks without looking at it. Believe me, it's at least just as easy an interface to master as any other player, if not easier. Volume? Reach into pocket, unlock it, slide finger on wheel, re-lock it if you're done. Switch tracks? Reach into pocket, unlock it, press forward, re-lock it if you're done. Same for play/pause. Why does "all the controls on the front" matter? What matters is knowing what part of the interface you're touching. Easy. It's a wheel. It's closer to one end of the rectangle than the other. You know bottom is play/pause, left is back, right is next, and sliding on the wheel changes the volume. That's enough. However, I am concerned about Apple's behavior of late. I think they have an obligation to be excellent corporate citizens and treat musicians with the utmost care, at least as far as their store goes. Personally, I don't use the store, although I have browsed it for some suggestions, much like I sometimes browse Amazon to try new music. There are a lot of things I wish Apple would do, but nothing yet has turned me off of the iPod. Inevitably their superiority (my opinion) will fall and they'll be the evil company or the shoddy product. Look at Sony, they used to be king of the world but a lot of what they make these days is pretty shoddy, and they don't know what they're doing at all with regards to strict rights and rules and stuff. All companies screw up or disappear eventually. But for the time being I love my iPod, and when somebody else is king of the heap in 2 or 5 or 10 years, I'll move on without looking back. And I don't see how by then I wouldn't be able to play my AAC audio files ... given the ubiquity of the iPod, it would seem any future iPod-killer would really have to be able to play AAC files. At the very least I could re-rip my collection and transcode what I don't have on CD. Which I wouldn't mind having to do if it's sufficiently distant in time (around that 10 year marker). That all being said, if someone thinks another portable will be better for them, by all means, go for it! I in no way think the iPod is some holy, wonderful, amazingly best-of-everything device. Just as much as other people are tired of seeing it everywhere and tired of hearing how amazing it's supposed to be, I'm also tired of hearing a lot of the baseless criticism of it that gets bandied about for no apparent reason. If you see it all of the place, it isn't just because of Apple's ad campaign. It really is quite a good product. -adam piontek Alan Lucas wrote:
quoted 61 lines I will say that Redchair Software's Notmad Explorer makes using the> I will say that Redchair Software's Notmad Explorer makes using the > Zen with the PC pure easy. I don't even touch any of the Creative > stuff. I know they also have versions for iPods, Dell DJs, Rios, and > maybe the iRiver, but of course I haven't used any of those, but I'd > expect the features to be similar. I can edit multiple tags for files > already on the player, do easy syncs, all kinds of stuff that the > included Creative software either couldn't do, or was just so obtuse > about. > > And here's something that I consider an advantage over the iPod - the > buttons for the Zen are on the side of the player, so when it's in my > pocket, I don't have to look at it, or take it out of my pocket to > adjust volume, play/pause, or switch tracks. It seems like some of > that would be more difficult for a device where the controls are all > on the front. > > obIDM - a good portion of my IDM collection resides on my Zen. > > Later, > Alan > > np: DJ /Rupture - Special Gunpowder > > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:16:00 -0400, Adam Piontek <adam@damek.org> wrote: > >>It's really not that big a deal (to me). The ease of use (iTunes, >>hardware design, easy cross-platform external storage) makes it up for >>me. It'd be nice if they'd do gapless, but I just plain don't really >>care. And I had actually thought I'd be too annoyed by it, but I'm >>not. >> >>Ogg/FLAC? Don't have any. Well, OK, I have some Oggs from when I went >>through my Ogg phase a couple years ago, but I just transcode them to >>m4a. In fact, I transcode all my MP3s that are greater than 128k too, >>because they get much smaller and I can fit more music on my puny mini. >> >>Sure, Ogg can be small, too, but I think even if every other player >>supported Ogg, I'd still go with an iPod for the ease of use and >>iTunes. Until the competitors' software was as good as it. As of now, >>I don't think there's anybody that matches iTunes for goodness. >> >>The Rio Karma seems like one of the best of the competitors, but it >>lacks too much, if you ask me. The complaints you mention are >>deal-breakers for me, and I'd add the interface design as being pretty >>lacking, too. >> >>That all being said, I'd love for somebody to release a real valid >>competitor to the iPod just so Apple has some good competition. The >>key is matching iTunes, and making file transfers easy. And probably >>the click-wheel at this point... seems the only way to go. Aside from >>"style", I think those are the real reasons people buy the iPod. >> -adamp >> >> >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 14:14John/SlackonomicsOn Oct 26, 2004, at 8:48 AM, Adam Piontek wrote: > And I don't see how by then I wouldn't
From:
John/Slackonomics
To:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:14:34 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <5C8D8F4A-2759-11D9-9E4A-000502B18FAA@slackonomics.com>
On Oct 26, 2004, at 8:48 AM, Adam Piontek wrote:
quoted 6 lines And I don't see how by then I wouldn't be able to play my AAC audio> And I don't see how by then I wouldn't be able to play my AAC audio > files ... given the ubiquity of the iPod, it would seem any future > iPod-killer would really have to be able to play AAC files. At the > very least I could re-rip my collection and transcode what I don't > have on CD. Which I wouldn't mind having to do if it's sufficiently > distant in time (around that 10 year marker).
Just for the record, AAC isn't entirely Apple's invention. It's part of the MPEG (motion pictures expert group) consortium's industry-standard codec. It is the successor to MP3. It's part of the MPEG-4 standard, actually. Since it's a standard, you'll have little fear of the AAC files not playing. A lot of the other players haven't adopted the standard yet, which is inexplicable since AAC is truly a standard with the MPEG group behind it, but it's just a matter of time before they do. Especially considering AACPlus is coming out very soon. I personally went the Apple Lossless route since no audio is compressed, and I can transcode without loss of audio, too. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 16:46Dan HaskovecI have an iPod mini and love it. It would be nice to have more than 4gb capacity, but afte
From:
Dan Haskovec
To:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.33.0410260935510.20132-100000@charm>
I have an iPod mini and love it. It would be nice to have more than 4gb capacity, but after using it for about 6 months there's no way I'd get a player that is physically larger than the mini. The lack of gapless playback that someone mentioned earlier is a bit of an annoyance if you listen to a lot of live sets or multi-track mixes. I don't so it's not a big deal. It seems like most people listen to tracks on shuffle anyway. As far as sound quality, I'm pretty picky about that, and the iPod mini sounds fine to me. I did an a/b listening test with my Panasonic SL-SX460 portable CD player (this is the line that headphone.com recommends as the best sounding CD portable), and with a 192k mp3 I couldn't hear a difference. This is with a pair of $70 Grado SR-60 headphones. If course it is still mp3 so if you run it into a good amp and speakers you will hear a difference compared to a good CD player source. BTW, last week Slashdot had a link to a two-part article called "iPod killers for Christmas": http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/17/1459209 It's a good overview of the loads of new players coming out in the next few months. On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Adam Piontek wrote:
quoted 139 lines Yeah, if you're not using a music library program like iTunes, and> Yeah, if you're not using a music library program like iTunes, and > you're still dealing with your music files directly, having some > integrated way of accessing the files on your portable probably would be > a big bonus. As far as iTunes, what Tim Moore said. It's really just a > program for managing your music library, you don't need an iPod to use > it. In fact, I used it for over half a year without having an iPod. I > suppose it's what convinced me to get one. One trick I didn't learn for > a while - the listing of your library really is a direct interface to > the files; you can drag songs out of iTunes to anywhere on the > filesystem and it'll copy them there. So you have the benefit of a > well-designed interface to a database of your music, plus still working > "directly" with your files. I very quickly stopped worrying about where > the files themselves were stored. It just doesn't matter. As long as > they're backed up when I first get them so I can restore my library if > it ever comes to that. > > It's just really been a load off my mind. > > As for editing tags on the player, well, your player shows up in iTunes > and you can edit files on the player. It also shows up in your file > system and you can access files that way, too. The music files are > "hidden", but A) there's really no need to see them, you work with them > in iTunes, and B) if you really need to get at them (because iTunes > doesn't let you copy *from* the iPod), just have hidden files & folders > visble in your file browser and you can go into the iPod_Control folder > and search for the track you want. > > Buttons? I always reach into my pocket and adjust the volume switch > tracks without looking at it. Believe me, it's at least just as easy an > interface to master as any other player, if not easier. Volume? Reach > into pocket, unlock it, slide finger on wheel, re-lock it if you're > done. Switch tracks? Reach into pocket, unlock it, press forward, > re-lock it if you're done. Same for play/pause. > > Why does "all the controls on the front" matter? What matters is > knowing what part of the interface you're touching. Easy. It's a > wheel. It's closer to one end of the rectangle than the other. You > know bottom is play/pause, left is back, right is next, and sliding on > the wheel changes the volume. That's enough. > > However, I am concerned about Apple's behavior of late. I think they > have an obligation to be excellent corporate citizens and treat > musicians with the utmost care, at least as far as their store goes. > Personally, I don't use the store, although I have browsed it for some > suggestions, much like I sometimes browse Amazon to try new music. > > There are a lot of things I wish Apple would do, but nothing yet has > turned me off of the iPod. Inevitably their superiority (my opinion) > will fall and they'll be the evil company or the shoddy product. Look > at Sony, they used to be king of the world but a lot of what they make > these days is pretty shoddy, and they don't know what they're doing at > all with regards to strict rights and rules and stuff. All companies > screw up or disappear eventually. But for the time being I love my > iPod, and when somebody else is king of the heap in 2 or 5 or 10 years, > I'll move on without looking back. And I don't see how by then I > wouldn't be able to play my AAC audio files ... given the ubiquity of > the iPod, it would seem any future iPod-killer would really have to be > able to play AAC files. At the very least I could re-rip my collection > and transcode what I don't have on CD. Which I wouldn't mind having to > do if it's sufficiently distant in time (around that 10 year marker). > > That all being said, if someone thinks another portable will be better > for them, by all means, go for it! I in no way think the iPod is some > holy, wonderful, amazingly best-of-everything device. Just as much as > other people are tired of seeing it everywhere and tired of hearing how > amazing it's supposed to be, I'm also tired of hearing a lot of the > baseless criticism of it that gets bandied about for no apparent reason. > If you see it all of the place, it isn't just because of Apple's ad > campaign. It really is quite a good product. > -adam piontek > > Alan Lucas wrote: > > I will say that Redchair Software's Notmad Explorer makes using the > > Zen with the PC pure easy. I don't even touch any of the Creative > > stuff. I know they also have versions for iPods, Dell DJs, Rios, and > > maybe the iRiver, but of course I haven't used any of those, but I'd > > expect the features to be similar. I can edit multiple tags for files > > already on the player, do easy syncs, all kinds of stuff that the > > included Creative software either couldn't do, or was just so obtuse > > about. > > > > And here's something that I consider an advantage over the iPod - the > > buttons for the Zen are on the side of the player, so when it's in my > > pocket, I don't have to look at it, or take it out of my pocket to > > adjust volume, play/pause, or switch tracks. It seems like some of > > that would be more difficult for a device where the controls are all > > on the front. > > > > obIDM - a good portion of my IDM collection resides on my Zen. > > > > Later, > > Alan > > > > np: DJ /Rupture - Special Gunpowder > > > > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:16:00 -0400, Adam Piontek <adam@damek.org> wrote: > > > >>It's really not that big a deal (to me). The ease of use (iTunes, > >>hardware design, easy cross-platform external storage) makes it up for > >>me. It'd be nice if they'd do gapless, but I just plain don't really > >>care. And I had actually thought I'd be too annoyed by it, but I'm > >>not. > >> > >>Ogg/FLAC? Don't have any. Well, OK, I have some Oggs from when I went > >>through my Ogg phase a couple years ago, but I just transcode them to > >>m4a. In fact, I transcode all my MP3s that are greater than 128k too, > >>because they get much smaller and I can fit more music on my puny mini. > >> > >>Sure, Ogg can be small, too, but I think even if every other player > >>supported Ogg, I'd still go with an iPod for the ease of use and > >>iTunes. Until the competitors' software was as good as it. As of now, > >>I don't think there's anybody that matches iTunes for goodness. > >> > >>The Rio Karma seems like one of the best of the competitors, but it > >>lacks too much, if you ask me. The complaints you mention are > >>deal-breakers for me, and I'd add the interface design as being pretty > >>lacking, too. > >> > >>That all being said, I'd love for somebody to release a real valid > >>competitor to the iPod just so Apple has some good competition. The > >>key is matching iTunes, and making file transfers easy. And probably > >>the click-wheel at this point... seems the only way to go. Aside from > >>"style", I think those are the real reasons people buy the iPod. > >> -adamp > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 17:19Alan LucasMan, none of those players really impress me. It amazes me that no one can come up with a
From:
Alan Lucas
To:
Dan Haskovec
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:19:52 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <5e21321c04102610197a6a9306@mail.gmail.com>
Man, none of those players really impress me. It amazes me that no one can come up with a design that even comes close to rivaling the looks of the iPod. Lots of ugly models. Although that Archos 20gb player isn't too bad looking. On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:46:50 -0700 (PDT), Dan Haskovec <dan@pry.com> wrote:
quoted 9 lines BTW, last week Slashdot had a link to a two-part article called "iPod> BTW, last week Slashdot had a link to a two-part article called "iPod > killers for Christmas": > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/17/1459209 > > It's a good overview of the loads of new players coming out in the next > few months. > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 18:19Dave Watson--Alan Lucas <alucas@gmail.com> [041025 16:34]: > And here's something that I consider an
From:
Dave Watson
To:
Alan Lucas
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:19:21 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <20041026181921.GA209@elephantride.org>
--Alan Lucas <alucas@gmail.com> [041025 16:34]:
quoted 6 lines And here's something that I consider an advantage over the iPod - the> And here's something that I consider an advantage over the iPod - the > buttons for the Zen are on the side of the player, so when it's in my > pocket, I don't have to look at it, or take it out of my pocket to > adjust volume, play/pause, or switch tracks. It seems like some of > that would be more difficult for a device where the controls are all > on the front.
My iPod came with a tiny sleek little remote that attaches to the headphone cable that lets you control it. It conveniently clips to your shirt or the top of your pocket etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 18:21Adam PiontekI forget who prognosticated that a 60gb iPod would probably cost $600 - but they were righ
From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:21:08 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod - new ipods today
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <417E9594.1000700@damek.org>
I forget who prognosticated that a 60gb iPod would probably cost $600 - but they were right. Apple just released a new 60gb "photo iPod" today with a color screen. Costs $599. They also have a 40gb version at $499. I guess you'd really have to be into digital photos... I'd mention the black/red U2 iPod, but U2 is soooo not IDM! ;-) -adam piontek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 09:32Neil WalshI wouldn't call iPod "cross-platform". Neil On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:16:00 -0400, Adam Piont
From:
Neil Walsh
To:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:32:59 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <64e028a204102602326289763b@mail.gmail.com>
I wouldn't call iPod "cross-platform". Neil On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:16:00 -0400, Adam Piontek <adam@damek.org> wrote:
quoted 60 lines It's really not that big a deal (to me). The ease of use (iTunes,> It's really not that big a deal (to me). The ease of use (iTunes, > hardware design, easy cross-platform external storage) makes it up for > me. It'd be nice if they'd do gapless, but I just plain don't really > care. And I had actually thought I'd be too annoyed by it, but I'm > not. > > Ogg/FLAC? Don't have any. Well, OK, I have some Oggs from when I went > through my Ogg phase a couple years ago, but I just transcode them to > m4a. In fact, I transcode all my MP3s that are greater than 128k too, > because they get much smaller and I can fit more music on my puny mini. > > Sure, Ogg can be small, too, but I think even if every other player > supported Ogg, I'd still go with an iPod for the ease of use and > iTunes. Until the competitors' software was as good as it. As of now, > I don't think there's anybody that matches iTunes for goodness. > > The Rio Karma seems like one of the best of the competitors, but it > lacks too much, if you ask me. The complaints you mention are > deal-breakers for me, and I'd add the interface design as being pretty > lacking, too. > > That all being said, I'd love for somebody to release a real valid > competitor to the iPod just so Apple has some good competition. The > key is matching iTunes, and making file transfers easy. And probably > the click-wheel at this point... seems the only way to go. Aside from > "style", I think those are the real reasons people buy the iPod. > -adamp > > > > On Oct 25, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Shane Huddleston wrote: > > > How do all the iPod fans tolerate the lack of gapless playback? I > > consider iPods to be broken out of the box for that reason alone and > > simply couldn't use one without throwing it out the bus window within > > 5 or 10 minutes. Or, has Apple fixed that recently? > > > > My money's on the Rio Karma. It has it's flaws (doesn't everything) > > but has perfect gapless playback for MP3 and WMA and fully supports > > all features of OGG and FLAC formats. Also cool is that the docking > > station supports ethernet so you can just pop your player on any > > standing network and access from any machine. > > > > Complaints: can't mount it as a drive in Windows Explorer (or > > OSX/Linux): non-music file transfers have to be done with proprietary > > RioTaxi software. Also, there's only a 20GB version so far. Something > > bigger is on the way, but probably not until 2005. > > > > -Shane > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 09:36muffinOn 26 Oct 2004, at 10:32, Neil Walsh wrote: > I wouldn't call iPod "cross-platform". I've
From:
muffin
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:36:36 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <87D98AB3-2732-11D9-A5A3-000A95D0D70C@signmytits.com>
On 26 Oct 2004, at 10:32, Neil Walsh wrote:
quoted 1 line I wouldn't call iPod "cross-platform".> I wouldn't call iPod "cross-platform".
I've managed to put audio onto mine - the hard way - from Linux and FreeBSD. Much more cross platform than a lot of things I've seen that are called that. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 10:02Neil WalshI think the iRiver is the only hard disk mp3 player that can be truely called "cross platf
From:
Neil Walsh
To:
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:02:06 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <64e028a204102603026f833cea@mail.gmail.com>
I think the iRiver is the only hard disk mp3 player that can be truely called "cross platform" Neil On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:36:36 +0100, muffin <muffin@signmytits.com> wrote:
quoted 16 lines On 26 Oct 2004, at 10:32, Neil Walsh wrote:> > On 26 Oct 2004, at 10:32, Neil Walsh wrote: > > > I wouldn't call iPod "cross-platform". > > I've managed to put audio onto mine - the hard way - from Linux and > FreeBSD. Much more cross platform than a lot of things I've seen that > are called that. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-26 18:23Dave Watson--Neil Walsh <walsh.neil@gmail.com> [041026 02:39]: > I wouldn't call iPod "cross-platform
From:
Dave Watson
To:
Neil Walsh
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:23:58 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <20041026182358.GB209@elephantride.org>
--Neil Walsh <walsh.neil@gmail.com> [041026 02:39]:
quoted 1 line I wouldn't call iPod "cross-platform".> I wouldn't call iPod "cross-platform".
I often use my iPod as a convenient means of moving music from my Mac at home to my PC at work. That's cross-platform enough for me. I've even used my iPod as a backup hard drive for my PC. The biggest cross-platform issue I've run into is that PC's never seem to have a firewire port. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-29 05:58seek----- Original Message ----- From: "dj pie" > i have a dell digital jukebox, and i love it
From:
seek
To:
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:58:37 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <249301c4bd7c$55c90bd0$7db1a943@obelisk>
----- Original Message ----- From: "dj pie"
quoted 12 lines i have a dell digital jukebox, and i love it. it was far cheaper than> i have a dell digital jukebox, and i love it. it was far cheaper than > the comparable 20gb ipod, and with the $20 3rd party software from red > chair (dudebox), it works fantastically with my PCs. i can update ID3 > tags and recategorize music just by dragging and dropping into folders > with the explorer-type interface. > also, it fits perfectly in my robot cupholder, and works with either > the FM transmitter or the cassette adapter in the car. it is shiny > matte aluminum, > and feels good and solid, nearly indestructible. > ipods are pretty, but i personally didn't like the jogwheel, it > confused me. i prefer the little scrollywheel that the jukebox has. > -rachel
Great review: Dell oughta send you another one, free of charge. ;) I'm checking them out (based on your excellent review), and the listed ship date is November 30th, 2004: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DDJ20M&s=dhs Are they already available and this info is in error, or is yours an entirely different Dell model? tia, seek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-30 16:40dj pieOn Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:58:37 -0700, seek <eclectics@comcast.net> wrote: > ----- Original M
From:
dj pie
To:
seek
Cc:
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:40:27 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <3394bfe004103009406b37cb57@mail.gmail.com>
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:58:37 -0700, seek <eclectics@comcast.net> wrote:
quoted 21 lines ----- Original Message -----> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dj pie" > > i have a dell digital jukebox, and i love it. it was far cheaper than > > the comparable 20gb ipod, and with the $20 3rd party software from red > > chair (dudebox), it works fantastically with my PCs. i can update ID3 > > tags and recategorize music just by dragging and dropping into folders > > with the explorer-type interface. > > also, it fits perfectly in my robot cupholder, and works with either > > the FM transmitter or the cassette adapter in the car. it is shiny > > matte aluminum, > > and feels good and solid, nearly indestructible. > > ipods are pretty, but i personally didn't like the jogwheel, it > > confused me. i prefer the little scrollywheel that the jukebox has. > > -rachel > > > Great review: Dell oughta send you another one, free of charge. ;) > I'm checking them out (based on your excellent review), and the > listed ship date is November 30th, 2004: > http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DDJ20M&s=dhs > Are they already available and this info is in error, or is yours an entirely different Dell model?
ooh, that one looks sleeker than mine, but still has the aforementioned scrollywheel. i got mine last christmas, and it is wider looking. if you get this one, please post and let us know whether you like it! and again, i thoroughly recommend the red chair software 'dudebox' interface software over the included musicmatch crap. musicmatch is fine for ripping, but terrible for management. -rachel -- [gilmore] i think Kerry could win if he just promised to get Halo2 out on time. http://piesarenice.net funkier than you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-30 16:47dj pieOn Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:40:27 -0700, dj pie <djpiebob@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, 28 Oct 20
From:
dj pie
To:
seek
Cc:
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:47:14 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <3394bfe00410300947110ae4b1@mail.gmail.com>
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:40:27 -0700, dj pie <djpiebob@gmail.com> wrote:
quoted 1 line On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:58:37 -0700, seek <eclectics@comcast.net> wrote:> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:58:37 -0700, seek <eclectics@comcast.net> wrote:
[snipped review]
quoted 12 lines Great review: Dell oughta send you another one, free of charge. ;)> > Great review: Dell oughta send you another one, free of charge. ;) > > I'm checking them out (based on your excellent review), and the > > listed ship date is November 30th, 2004: > > http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DDJ20M&s=dhs > > Are they already available and this info is in error, or is yours an entirely different Dell model? > > ooh, that one looks sleeker than mine, but still has the > aforementioned scrollywheel. i got mine last christmas, and it is > wider looking. if you get this > one, please post and let us know whether you like it! and again, i thoroughly > recommend the red chair software 'dudebox' interface software over the included > musicmatch crap. musicmatch is fine for ripping, but terrible for management.
here's the one i have: http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dj_20?c=us&cs=&l=en&s=dfh& (they're selling refurbished ones, so i guess the original model isn't made anymore--but there aren't any in stock, which would indicate that they don't tend to get returned.) -rachel -- [gilmore] i think Kerry could win if he just promised to get Halo2 out on time. http://piesarenice.net funkier than you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-30 17:37seek----- Original Message ----- From: "dj pie" > > ooh, that one looks sleeker than mine, but
From:
seek
To:
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:37:20 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <4c3901c4bea7$1be95970$7db1a943@obelisk>
----- Original Message ----- From: "dj pie"
quoted 6 lines ooh, that one looks sleeker than mine, but still has the> > ooh, that one looks sleeker than mine, but still has the > > aforementioned scrollywheel. i got mine last christmas, and it is > > wider looking. if you get this > > one, please post and let us know whether you like it! and again, i thoroughly > > recommend the red chair software 'dudebox' interface software over the included > > musicmatch crap. musicmatch is fine for ripping, but terrible for management.
quoted 6 lines here's the one i have:> here's the one i have: > http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dj_20?c=us&cs=&l=en&s=dfh& > (they're selling refurbished ones, so i guess the original model isn't > made anymore--but there aren't any in stock, which would indicate that > they don't tend to get returned.) > -rachel
Cool beans. Thank you for all of the info, and for the 'dudebox' recommendation. I'm still undecided, but the Dell is more of interest to me than is the Apple (not of my eye). And the ship date is now December lst: they've pushed it back another day. I'm perusing the Nomad Jukebox, too, subsequent to this thread. They've a 60GB model: http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=9288&nav=technicalSpecifications or http://tinyurl.com/6bshc 60GB hard drive* holds 2000 hrs of WMA or 1000 hrs of MP3 Songs** And the NOMAD Jukebox Zen Xtra doubles up as an external hard drive for storing all your photos, documents and other data files. Simply open NOMAD Explorer (integrated into Microsoft® Windows® Explorer) and drag and drop data files into the data folder or music files into the music library. The Zen Xtra also is priced at up to 30% less than the Apple iPod! Advanced Features Enhance your Digital Music Experience Create and customize playlists for any occasion anywhere Music files are automatically arranged by artist, album, genre or track Handy Find Feature locates any song, album or artist in seconds Powerful icon-driven interface with Quick Scroller Navigation Removable, high-capacity Li-ion battery - up to 14hrs continuous playback per charge Sleep Timer and Wake to Music Feature Personalize your player with 6 different Profile settings that let you customize screen savers, skins, idle timers and more! Customize Your Audio Playback with Innovative EAXT Technologies Advanced EQ lets you customize your music playback with Equalizer presets or set your own using the 4-band custom equalizer Smart Volume ManagementT adjusts the playback volume of all the tracks on your playlist so they will remain at the same level without you reaching for the volume control between songs! Time Scaling speeds up or slows down an audio track with no distortion Sleep Timer and Wake to Music Feature Environmental Effects simulate audio environments such as "Concert Hall" or "Arena" Spatialization Effects expand your soundstage seek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-30 17:45Robert Feuchtlhmm.. really noone here using a PDA with audio-out and CompactFlash slot or alike? I´d pre
From:
Robert Feuchtl
To:
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:45:46 +0200
Subject:
[idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <4183D34A.1000502@groove.de>
hmm.. really noone here using a PDA with audio-out and CompactFlash slot or alike? I´d prefer something I can program to any ipod for about 300,- robert -- B O B H U M I D @ G R O O V E M A G A Z I N E ( t e c h n o l o g i c a l _ e d i t o r ) servicelinks: http://www.groove.de
2004-10-31 08:25Enquiries> hmm.. really noone here using a PDA with audio-out and CompactFlash slot > or alike? > >
From:
Enquiries
To:
idm list
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:25:47 +0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
Reply to:
[idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
permalink · <BDAA520B.822B%enquiries@eleventhvolume.com>
quoted 6 lines hmm.. really noone here using a PDA with audio-out and CompactFlash slot> hmm.. really noone here using a PDA with audio-out and CompactFlash slot > or alike? > > I´d prefer something I can program to any ipod for about 300,- > > robert
I am, though I don't programme anything - Sony Clie NX73V with a 512mb memory stick - let's me listen to music and write reviews of it while I'm on the bus, tube, etc. I can sync my docs to my Powerbook with Documents To Go and other stuff using Missing Sync via usb or bluetooth. Additionally it's got my diary, contacts, etc and I can catch up on BBC news, The Guardian and CNET via AvantGo. I can take 640x480 pics which are good enough for my blog and also use it for voice memos. Oh and I'm rereading Moby Dick using eReader. Downsides? Bigger than an iPod, limited capacity, the hack to make audio play properly crashes the unit sometimes. Sometime soon though I'm going to go with the photo iPod now that it's 60gb and can hold a decent percentage of my music ripped at 192 and I'll continue to use the Clie for the other stuff. Cheers, Colin. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-31 15:05Robert Feuchtlhey, cool.. one at least.. :) well, no thanx. no IPod for me... as soon as VBR for MP3 is
From:
Robert Feuchtl
Cc:
idm list
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:05:21 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
permalink · <4184FF31.3000608@groove.de>
hey, cool.. one at least.. :) well, no thanx. no IPod for me... as soon as VBR for MP3 is supported, I gonna get this tech_baby for me, cause it plays MP3s, movies AND emulates all kind of retro computers in the same time.. and there is an attachable keyboard available.. I don´t mind carrying a bunch of SMCs with me... http://www.gbax.com/new/gp32.html http://www.gamepark.com/ robert Enquiries wrote:
quoted 33 lines hmm.. really noone here using a PDA with audio-out and CompactFlash slot>>hmm.. really noone here using a PDA with audio-out and CompactFlash slot >>or alike? >> >>I´d prefer something I can program to any ipod for about 300,- >> >>robert >> >> >I am, though I don't programme anything - Sony Clie NX73V with a 512mb >memory stick - let's me listen to music and write reviews of it while I'm on >the bus, tube, etc. I can sync my docs to my Powerbook with Documents To Go >and other stuff using Missing Sync via usb or bluetooth. Additionally it's >got my diary, contacts, etc and I can catch up on BBC news, The Guardian and >CNET via AvantGo. I can take 640x480 pics which are good enough for my blog >and also use it for voice memos. Oh and I'm rereading Moby Dick using >eReader. Downsides? Bigger than an iPod, limited capacity, the hack to make >audio play properly crashes the unit sometimes. Sometime soon though I'm >going to go with the photo iPod now that it's 60gb and can hold a decent >percentage of my music ripped at 192 and I'll continue to use the Clie for >the other stuff. > >Cheers, Colin. > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >
-- B O B H U M I D @ G R O O V E M A G A Z I N E ( t e c h n o l o g i c a l _ e d i t o r ) c/o robert feuchtl aachener strasse 72 50674 köln germany +49 (0)221 42 333 42 +49 (0)163 514 85 35 servicelinks: http://www.groove.de
2004-11-01 17:10Ian MonroeI just got a Neuros. It's pretty cool, though it's bigger and bulkier than an Ipod. My pro
From:
Ian Monroe
To:
Date:
Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:10:39 -0500
Subject:
RE: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
permalink · <002e01c4c035$b622f340$0d0114ac@iansony>
I just got a Neuros. It's pretty cool, though it's bigger and bulkier than an Ipod. My problem is, I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything from them for my own use. However, the ipod is a pretty neat device, even if it is all messed up with DRM and whathaveyou. So I looked into it, and I bought a neuros - it's 20 GB, reads MP3's, waves, OOG, etc. It's got a line-in that will record to MP3's or wavs (up to 48khz - dat quality). It's got an FM tuner. It's got an FM transmitter built in, so you can broadcast to nearby radios instead of using a cassette adapter or whatever. It also has a mic built in for voice notes and whatnot. The firmware and the sync software are open source, so you can tinker with the guts. And the hardware has some hackability - for instance, it's got an un-implemented (because of FCC rules) RF jack that you can use to plug in an external antennea for extending the FM broadcast range, etc. Anyway, if you're thinking of the Ipod because it's cute, or because it's simple, then I invite you to pay $400 for an Ipod. But if you want a functional mp3 jukebox that is tinkerer-friendly, then I suggest the Neuros instead. And it doesn't hurt that I got mine for less than $200, including shipping. -i -----Original Message----- From: Robert Feuchtl [mailto:bobhumid@groove.de] Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 10:05 AM Cc: idm list Subject: Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone? hey, cool.. one at least.. :) well, no thanx. no IPod for me... as soon as VBR for MP3 is supported, I gonna get this tech_baby for me, cause it plays MP3s, movies AND emulates all kind of retro computers in the same time.. and there is an attachable keyboard available.. I don´t mind carrying a bunch of SMCs with me... http://www.gbax.com/new/gp32.html http://www.gamepark.com/ robert Enquiries wrote:
quoted 34 lines hmm.. really noone here using a PDA with audio-out and CompactFlash>>hmm.. really noone here using a PDA with audio-out and CompactFlash >>slot or alike? >> >>I´d prefer something I can program to any ipod for about 300,- >> >>robert >> >> >I am, though I don't programme anything - Sony Clie NX73V with a 512mb >memory stick - let's me listen to music and write reviews of it while >I'm on the bus, tube, etc. I can sync my docs to my Powerbook with >Documents To Go and other stuff using Missing Sync via usb or >bluetooth. Additionally it's got my diary, contacts, etc and I can >catch up on BBC news, The Guardian and CNET via AvantGo. I can take >640x480 pics which are good enough for my blog and also use it for >voice memos. Oh and I'm rereading Moby Dick using eReader. Downsides? >Bigger than an iPod, limited capacity, the hack to make audio play >properly crashes the unit sometimes. Sometime soon though I'm going to >go with the photo iPod now that it's 60gb and can hold a decent >percentage of my music ripped at 192 and I'll continue to use the Clie >for the other stuff. > >Cheers, Colin. > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >
-- B O B H U M I D @ G R O O V E M A G A Z I N E ( t e c h n o l o g i c a l _ e d i t o r ) c/o robert feuchtl aachener strasse 72 50674 köln germany +49 (0)221 42 333 42 +49 (0)163 514 85 35 servicelinks: http://www.groove.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-01 17:30muffin> However, the ipod is a pretty neat device, > even if it is all messed up with DRM and wh
From:
muffin
To:
incidental derogatory mnemonics
Date:
Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:30:18 +0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
Reply to:
RE: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
permalink · <B2E148F7-2C2B-11D9-A5ED-000A95D0D70C@signmytits.com>
quoted 2 lines However, the ipod is a pretty neat device,> However, the ipod is a pretty neat device, > even if it is all messed up with DRM and whathaveyou.
Um, the ipod plays MP3 and AAC files which aren't encumbered with DRM, it's the AAC files sold in iTunes Music Store which is DRM'd up ... though it's pretty easy to remove that. The only DRM on the iPod that is a 'restriction' is that you can't - easily - copy music back off the iPod. And that's pretty easy to get round, as it's all in a hidden folder which you can view through terminal or a number of other programs. 'A little knowledge...' _sigh_ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-01 18:25Jeff BirgbauerOn Nov 1, 2004, at 12:10 PM, Ian Monroe wrote: > My problem is, I just really hate Apple,
From:
Jeff Birgbauer
To:
Ian Monroe
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:25:29 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
Reply to:
RE: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
permalink · <68BA665A-2C33-11D9-8F0C-0003936E2A08@comcast.net>
On Nov 1, 2004, at 12:10 PM, Ian Monroe wrote:
quoted 2 lines My problem is, I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything> My problem is, I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything > from them for my own use.
what!?! you have sinned......:) Jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-01 20:07Robert FeuchtlJeff Birgbauer wrote: > > On Nov 1, 2004, at 12:10 PM, Ian Monroe wrote: > >> My problem i
From:
Robert Feuchtl
To:
idm list
Date:
Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:07:40 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
permalink · <4186978C.7040506@groove.de>
Jeff Birgbauer wrote:
quoted 8 lines On Nov 1, 2004, at 12:10 PM, Ian Monroe wrote:> > On Nov 1, 2004, at 12:10 PM, Ian Monroe wrote: > >> My problem is, I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything >> from them for my own use. > > > what!?! you have sinned......:)
yeah! ;-) he broke the shrine. they gonna burn him. I used to be an 8-Bit ATARI-nazi when I was 14 ... commodore 64 bashing was sooo huge fun .. lol* no. peace. I really love ALL computers... war is over and I grew up. really. robert
quoted 10 lines Jeff> > Jeff > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >
-- B O B H U M I D @ G R O O V E M A G A Z I N E ( t e c h n o l o g i c a l _ e d i t o r ) c/o robert feuchtl aachener strasse 72 50674 köln germany +49 (0)221 42 333 42 +49 (0)163 514 85 35 servicelinks: http://www.groove.de
2004-11-02 04:31Irene McCOn 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote: > I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy
From:
Irene McC
To:
Date:
Tue, 02 Nov 2004 06:31:02 +0200
Subject:
[idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
RE: [idm] Ipod Substitutes Anyone?
permalink · <418729A6.14356.2DF00@localhost>
On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote:
quoted 2 lines I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything from> I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything from > them for my own use.
What's with hating Apple??? I'm aware of a hate campaign against Windoze & all things Gates, but sitting here in South Africa I haven't been aware of Apple being painted the Bad Guy. Please elucidate. I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 04:39SatanOn Nov 1, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Irene McC wrote: > On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote:
From:
Satan
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:39:23 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
[idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <2B8D3494-2C89-11D9-8673-000A95854476@cox.net>
On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Irene McC wrote:
quoted 11 lines On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote:> On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote: > >> I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything from >> them for my own use. > > What's with hating Apple??? I'm aware of a hate campaign against > Windoze & all things Gates, but sitting here in South Africa I > haven't been aware of Apple being painted the Bad Guy. > > Please elucidate. >
This appears to be from an elite group of haters. Also would like to hear the reason behind such a statement....maybe it has something to do with compatability issues? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 00:19Nicholas BolibruchOn Mon, 2004-11-01 at 22:39 -0600, Satan wrote: > On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Irene McC w
From:
Nicholas Bolibruch
To:
idm mailing list
Date:
Mon, 01 Nov 2004 19:19:38 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <1099354778.6329.33.camel@localhost>
On Mon, 2004-11-01 at 22:39 -0600, Satan wrote:
quoted 23 lines On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Irene McC wrote:> On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Irene McC wrote: > > > On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote: > > > >> I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything from > >> them for my own use. > > > > What's with hating Apple??? I'm aware of a hate campaign against > > Windoze & all things Gates, but sitting here in South Africa I > > haven't been aware of Apple being painted the Bad Guy. > > > > Please elucidate. > > > > This appears to be from an elite group of haters. Also would like to > hear the reason behind such a statement....maybe it has something to do > with compatability issues? > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
I dislike the fanboy/girls need to respond to every negative comment about Apple or Steve Jobs. I dislike Apple for compatibility reasons. I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a mission to crush evil Microsoft. But if they were in a similiar situation as Microsoft, they would be acting in a similiar manner - just like every company does. (if not even worse - since Steve Jobs is somewhat fucked up, if the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley portrays him accurately at all) I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products that do not provide any additional functionality than commodity products. (this can be very subjective obviously - but really I have no personal use for the apparent advantages OS X provides, or any other Apple product) This is especially true for the fact that I cannot afford to pay a premium on any of their products - I would much rather go with a cheaper unpopular competitive product. Technology and consumer devices are expensive and if I can "trim the fat" I will certainly do so. I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the only innovative company in the world and that everyone is simply copying them. I dislike Apple for their support of DRM. I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field". http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/R/reality-distortion-field.html and finally I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple on every negative comment about Apple or Steve Jobs. NOTE: I dislike Microsoft even more and for completely different reasons than Apple, and I would probably encourage people who have the money to purchase an Apple computer if they weren't using it to just play games. I even like OS X! The above reasons are similiar reasons to why I also hate the whole nVidia vs. ATi fanboyism. I personally use Linux on commodity PC hardware - but I'm not going to preach to you about it - especially since I know there's hundreds of other Linux geeks who have lost touch with reality long ago that feel the need to preach anyway. So if someone hates company XYZ without stating any reason and are not on the subject of attacking company XYZ, please just accept it and move on with your lives. How's that? :-) -- Nicholas Bolibruch <nboli@cogeco.ca>
2004-11-02 08:35John/SlackonomicsOn Nov 1, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Nicholas Bolibruch wrote: > I dislike Apple for compatibility
From:
John/Slackonomics
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 02:35:40 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <2DE17786-2CAA-11D9-BED1-000502B18FAA@slackonomics.com>
On Nov 1, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Nicholas Bolibruch wrote:
quoted 1 line I dislike Apple for compatibility reasons.> I dislike Apple for compatibility reasons.
Name me some of your "compatibility reasons", please. I use both Windows and Macintosh and frankly I haven't really come across any of your "compatibility reasons" yet. In fact, I find that Windows (or rather, Microsoft software) is generally less compatible than Macintosh and *Nix is. More Microsoft formats are closed-source, proprietary than Apple. Especially now that Apple's operating system is based on Unix and runs atop an open source platform.
quoted 7 lines I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a> I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a > mission to crush evil Microsoft. But if they were in a similiar > situation as Microsoft, they would be acting in a similiar manner - > just > like every company does. (if not even worse - since Steve Jobs is > somewhat fucked up, if the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley portrays him > accurately at all)
The only theme of "Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a mission to crush evil Microsoft" is in your head. Nowhere has Apple stated that that's their "theme". You have a problem with a certain minority of vocal Apple users, not Apple itself, it sounds.
quoted 10 lines I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products> I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products > that do not provide any additional functionality than commodity > products. (this can be very subjective obviously - but really I have no > personal use for the apparent advantages OS X provides, or any other > Apple product) This is especially true for the fact that I cannot > afford > to pay a premium on any of their products - I would much rather go with > a cheaper unpopular competitive product. Technology and consumer > devices are expensive and if I can "trim the fat" I will certainly do > so.
The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in to the monitor). The Apple iBook starts at only $999. What was this premium you were referring to again? :)
quoted 4 lines I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the> I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the > only > innovative company in the world and that everyone is simply copying > them.
There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or larger platform just because a few users are idiots. I don't think that's very fair, do you?
quoted 1 line I dislike Apple for their support of DRM.> I dislike Apple for their support of DRM.
Every online music store to my knowledge uses DRM. Except maybe some marginal ones. DRM is unfortunately a necessary evil. Because, as we see with stuff like Kazaa and Soulseek, a lot of people will ruin a good thing. Apple wasn't the one that wanted to use DRM, it was the labels. Do you REALLY think the labels would let the music be released without DRM? Secondly, the DRM is mostly transparent. You can burn unlimited CD-Rs of the music you buy on iTunes Music Store. You can copy the tracks to an unlimited amount of iPods. You can also copy the music to up to FIVE computers you own (or your work computers), including both Mac or PC. You can stream the music to your friends/family on your network. I don't find the store that restrictive at all (although to be honest, I don't use it much since I still prefer to buy music on CD). If you don't like DRM, then don't use the music store. Simple as that. It's just one small aspect of Apple as a business.
quoted 1 line I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field".> I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field".
He's a salesman. I think his "reality-distortion field" is kinda funny myself. If nothing else, you gotta admit that Steve Jobs has changed the computer industry... numerous times.
quoted 3 lines I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple> I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple > on > every negative comment about Apple or Steve Jobs.
Just like you're making disparaging comments about Apple just now? And for the record, I'm a Windows user, too... so don't try lumping me in to your little categories.
quoted 12 lines NOTE:> NOTE: > I dislike Microsoft even more and for completely different reasons than > Apple, and I would probably encourage people who have the money to > purchase an Apple computer if they weren't using it to just play games. > I even like OS X! The above reasons are similiar reasons to why I also > hate the whole nVidia vs. ATi fanboyism. I personally use Linux on > commodity PC hardware - but I'm not going to preach to you about it - > especially since I know there's hundreds of other Linux geeks who have > lost touch with reality long ago that feel the need to preach anyway. > So if someone hates company XYZ without stating any reason and are not > on the subject of attacking company XYZ, please just accept it and move > on with your lives.
Well said. I enjoyed your post, btw. I mean no disrespect or animosity in my reply. I just though I'd clarify a different point of view. I respect your opinion on the matter and you're certainly entitled to everything you said. -- Mr. Tangent [the binary police] www.mrtangent.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 07:36Nicholas BolibruchOn Tue, 2004-11-02 at 02:35 -0600, John/Slackonomics wrote: > On Nov 1, 2004, at 6:19 PM,
From:
Nicholas Bolibruch
To:
idm mailing list
Date:
Tue, 02 Nov 2004 02:36:40 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <1099381000.6329.54.camel@localhost>
On Tue, 2004-11-02 at 02:35 -0600, John/Slackonomics wrote:
quoted 11 lines On Nov 1, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Nicholas Bolibruch wrote:> On Nov 1, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Nicholas Bolibruch wrote: > > > I dislike Apple for compatibility reasons. > > Name me some of your "compatibility reasons", please. I use both > Windows and Macintosh and frankly I haven't really come across any of > your "compatibility reasons" yet. In fact, I find that Windows (or > rather, Microsoft software) is generally less compatible than Macintosh > and *Nix is. More Microsoft formats are closed-source, proprietary > than Apple. Especially now that Apple's operating system is based on > Unix and runs atop an open source platform.
Mostly hardware related. It's not like I can pick up every piece of hardware out there plug it into a Mac and watch it automagically work. Software I understand is mostly platform specific anyway ...
quoted 13 lines I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a> > > I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a > > mission to crush evil Microsoft. But if they were in a similiar > > situation as Microsoft, they would be acting in a similiar manner - > > just > > like every company does. (if not even worse - since Steve Jobs is > > somewhat fucked up, if the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley portrays him > > accurately at all) > > The only theme of "Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a > mission to crush evil Microsoft" is in your head. Nowhere has Apple > stated that that's their "theme". You have a problem with a certain > minority of vocal Apple users, not Apple itself, it sounds.
You got it. :-)
quoted 16 lines I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products> > > I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products > > that do not provide any additional functionality than commodity > > products. (this can be very subjective obviously - but really I have no > > personal use for the apparent advantages OS X provides, or any other > > Apple product) This is especially true for the fact that I cannot > > afford > > to pay a premium on any of their products - I would much rather go with > > a cheaper unpopular competitive product. Technology and consumer > > devices are expensive and if I can "trim the fat" I will certainly do > > so. > > The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in to > the monitor). The Apple iBook starts at only $999. What was this > premium you were referring to again? :) >
That's still expensive considering the performance you would get from similiarly priced PC commodity hardware. I consider notebook computers still a premium product in general due to the level of integration.
quoted 9 lines I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the> > I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the > > only > > innovative company in the world and that everyone is simply copying > > them. > > There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or > larger platform just because a few users are idiots. I don't think > that's very fair, do you? >
Oh I think that's entirely fair - since I don't want to be even associated to the community surrounding them. I excuse Linux fanboys due to the fact Linux fits into some sort of anarchist/communist model of the world that I would prefer to see exist. :-)
quoted 20 lines I dislike Apple for their support of DRM.> > I dislike Apple for their support of DRM. > > Every online music store to my knowledge uses DRM. Except maybe some > marginal ones. DRM is unfortunately a necessary evil. Because, as we > see with stuff like Kazaa and Soulseek, a lot of people will ruin a > good thing. Apple wasn't the one that wanted to use DRM, it was the > labels. Do you REALLY think the labels would let the music be released > without DRM? > > Secondly, the DRM is mostly transparent. You can burn unlimited CD-Rs > of the music you buy on iTunes Music Store. You can copy the tracks to > an unlimited amount of iPods. You can also copy the music to up to > FIVE computers you own (or your work computers), including both Mac or > PC. You can stream the music to your friends/family on your network. > I don't find the store that restrictive at all (although to be honest, > I don't use it much since I still prefer to buy music on CD). > > If you don't like DRM, then don't use the music store. Simple as that. > It's just one small aspect of Apple as a business. >
See, I have no problems watching copyright get crushed due to rampant online piracy. Apple supporting DRM is simply another act of attempting to entrench copyright enforcement back onto the internet. Plus, I still consider DRM'd audio an inferior product to non-DRM'd audio. Hence I have an incentive to continue using Soulseek and to try and find a non- DRM'd CD. (I refuse to buy copyprotected CD's since I always rip my CD's onto my computer because I DJ at the local radio station using mp3s, and I prefer them cateloged on my computer that way) If I remember correctly Warp Records offers tracks for download without DRM bullshit.
quoted 6 lines I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field".> > I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field". > > He's a salesman. I think his "reality-distortion field" is kinda funny > myself. If nothing else, you gotta admit that Steve Jobs has changed > the computer industry... numerous times. >
Yeah - and I hate salemen.
quoted 8 lines I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple> > I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple > > on > > every negative comment about Apple or Steve Jobs. > > Just like you're making disparaging comments about Apple just now? And > for the record, I'm a Windows user, too... so don't try lumping me in > to your little categories. >
Doesn't mean you can't be a fanboy. :-)
quoted 18 lines NOTE:> > NOTE: > > I dislike Microsoft even more and for completely different reasons than > > Apple, and I would probably encourage people who have the money to > > purchase an Apple computer if they weren't using it to just play games. > > I even like OS X! The above reasons are similiar reasons to why I also > > hate the whole nVidia vs. ATi fanboyism. I personally use Linux on > > commodity PC hardware - but I'm not going to preach to you about it - > > especially since I know there's hundreds of other Linux geeks who have > > lost touch with reality long ago that feel the need to preach anyway. > > So if someone hates company XYZ without stating any reason and are not > > on the subject of attacking company XYZ, please just accept it and move > > on with your lives. > > Well said. I enjoyed your post, btw. I mean no disrespect or > animosity in my reply. I just though I'd clarify a different point of > view. I respect your opinion on the matter and you're certainly > entitled to everything you said. >
Thank you. This was actually years of anti-Appleness in me that has been building up due to reading too much Slashdot.org I really only started to hate Steve Jobs after seeing Pirates of Silicon Valley. :-)
quoted 10 lines --> -- > > Mr. Tangent [the binary police] > www.mrtangent.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
-- Nicholas Bolibruch <nboli@cogeco.ca>
2004-11-02 13:21chthonic streams> > The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in to >> the monitor).
From:
chthonic streams
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:21:49 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with speed
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <p05210602bdad3911b7a7@[64.63.223.198]>
quoted 8 lines The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in to> > The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in to >> the monitor). The Apple iBook starts at only $999. What was this >> premium you were referring to again? :) >> > >That's still expensive considering the performance you would get from >similiarly priced PC commodity hardware. I consider notebook computers >still a premium product in general due to the level of integration.
what do you mean by "performance"? i ask because i had heard that the whole question of speed, touted in specs as "1.5Ghz" and so forth, is different on each platform. i.e. a 1.5Ghz processor on an IBM-compatible is not actually as fast or efficient as the same "speed" on a mac. thus PCs (if we must call them that, because apples are PCs too you know - wink wink) are always playing the one-upmanship game with apple - "our computer is faster, look at the specs!" but as any gearheads here who make music should know, specs often blur the truth. anyone know about this? d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 13:24muffinOn 2 Nov 2004, at 13:21, chthonic streams wrote: >> > The Apple eMac is $799, including mo
From:
muffin
To:
incidental derogatory mnemonics
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:24:27 +0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with speed
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with speed
permalink · <853CEDFE-2CD2-11D9-BBAC-000A95D0D70C@signmytits.com>
On 2 Nov 2004, at 13:21, chthonic streams wrote:
quoted 19 lines The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in>> > The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in >> to >>> the monitor). The Apple iBook starts at only $999. What was this >>> premium you were referring to again? :) >>> >> >> That's still expensive considering the performance you would get from >> similiarly priced PC commodity hardware. I consider notebook computers >> still a premium product in general due to the level of integration. > > what do you mean by "performance"? i ask because i had heard that the > whole question of speed, touted in specs as "1.5Ghz" and so forth, is > different on each platform. i.e. a 1.5Ghz processor on an > IBM-compatible is not actually as fast or efficient as the same > "speed" on a mac. thus PCs (if we must call them that, because apples > are PCs too you know - wink wink) are always playing the one-upmanship > game with apple - "our computer is faster, look at the specs!" but as > any gearheads here who make music should know, specs often blur the > truth.
Apple have talked about this "The Mhz Myth" on their website, but this is also what I recall from my CS degree: Mhz isn't a straight measurement as different processor architecture work in different ways. Intel Processors (and I assumed AMD?) are CISC : Complex Instruction Set Computer. These have a wide range of in built processor instructions which can do a lot of complex things, but they also run instructions through a pipeline to carry out instructions, which is comparatively quite long to that used on RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computers) such as the Motorola PowerPC chips used in Macs. In layman terms this difference means that whilst instructions are piped through quicker on a faster (MHZ) machine when you come to doing some things the shorted pipeline is more efficient, as the longer pipeline means that sometimes code which is partially run has to be abandoned because of logic changes further down the pipeline. The longer your pipeline becomes the more that increasing the processor speed will have little effect on actual performance. However, that isn't always the case. So it turns out that RISC processors are better for some things, and CISC are better for others. RISC are better for multi-processor set ups IIRC - which is why a lot of grids and super computers seem to be RISC orientated - but it's been a while and I'm welcome for someone to tell me I'm wrong. Whatever - this does mean that straight Mhz performance comparisons between different processor types are bunk. You are better to use MegaFlops or GigaFlops (a measurement of processor instructions executed per seconds). Across processors of the same chip architecure (ie i686 vs i686 or Celeron Vs Celeron or PowerPC 'G5' vs PowerPC 'G5') it can be a useful measurement. Though this is a bit academic, because no matter what the speed of your processor, if the Operating System doesn't allow you to take advantage of that it's not really any use, and if your operating system is bloated in anyway (like, say, I feel Aqua is on OS X compared to OS 9s windowing interface, but also so is Windows XP). --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 15:29adam@damek.orgQuoting Nicholas Bolibruch <nboli@cogeco.ca>: > Thank you. This was actually years of anti
From:
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:29:06 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <1099409346.4187a7c253074@www.damek.org>
Quoting Nicholas Bolibruch <nboli@cogeco.ca>:
quoted 5 lines Thank you. This was actually years of anti-Appleness in me that has> Thank you. This was actually years of anti-Appleness in me that has > been building up due to reading too much Slashdot.org > > I really only started to hate Steve Jobs after seeing Pirates of Silicon > Valley. :-)
Unfortunately, hate is not like mud. It doesn't well up, spill over, empty out and then it's gone. Hate is more like love. The more you put out, the more you have, the more you get back, and the more there is in the world... -Adam Piontek damek.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 12:48chthonic streams> >There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or >larger platform just
From:
chthonic streams
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:48:55 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with music
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <p05210601bdad31b0fb8f@[64.63.223.198]>
quoted 4 lines There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or> >There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or >larger platform just because a few users are idiots. I don't think >that's very fair, do you?
kind of like disliking a label or an artist because of the bahavior of their fans...for example, "warp records is elitist because that's what the people are like on the idm list" ; ) d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 17:27Ian MonroeNow, see, this is what I'm talking about. The Cult of Mac - the Cult of Jobs. I use both A
From:
Ian Monroe
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:27:13 -0500
Subject:
RE: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <009d01c4c101$3101dbf0$0d0114ac@iansony>
Now, see, this is what I'm talking about. The Cult of Mac - the Cult of Jobs. I use both Apple and PC machines, in a variety of capacities, and I've used every windows version since 3.1, every macOS version since 7.0, and a wide variety of *nix OS's. I currently support a mixed platform network that's about 70% PC, 20% mac, and about 10% Debian. The fact of the matter is that Nicholas pointed out valid problems with the Mac platform, and immediately the evangleical mac users rush to argue. I know, from personal experience, that there are large incompatabilities, particularly with pre-OSX macs, and other computers. There were huge network problems. The Appletalk protocol is one of the ugliest, least effiecient protocols around. There's even incompatabilites with file systems - Try using a PC to burn a CD of files that are stored on an HFS partition. Can't be done. There IS a premium for apple hardware - you're essentially paying for design. And while that may be fine for some people, I find it grossly inefficent. The "affordable" eMacs and entry level powerbooks you mention are so far back on the hardware curve as to be ridiculous. Your $999 powerbook is going to need to be replaced in 2 years, if you hope to use anything more computationally advanced that word processing and interweb. Your $999 commodity PC laptop has twice that life. And there are whole categories of problems that come up with Macs that simply have no solution, ever. I could name a litany of them that I've encountered personally, but I don't want to bore you any further than I have already. But here's the thing that gets me the most. 20% of the machines that I support are Macs, and they demand well over half of the support time. But every mac user I talk to tries to tell me Macs don't crash. Well, they do. All the time. Not as much with OSX, but as far as I'm concerned, it's too little too late. I've wasted too much of my life troubleshooting arcane Mac problems to be fooled by the rhetoric. And what rhetoric! I know a half a dozen people with Apple logos TATOOED on their bodies! I don't know any pc users dumb enough to have Microsoft's logo indelibly etched into their flesh, do you? So yeah, I don't like macs. I've got a computer science degree, I use and support macs every single day, I know how they work, I understand why people like them, but it's all smoke and mirrors as far as I'm concerned. I'll be happy to support them, for a premium. But I will never, ever buy Apple products for my own use. My .02 -Ian PS - DRM, no matter how transparent, no matter how well meaning, no matter how or why it's implemented, is a tool of the Devil. IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: John/Slackonomics [mailto:slack@slackonomics.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:36 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple On Nov 1, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Nicholas Bolibruch wrote:
quoted 1 line I dislike Apple for compatibility reasons.> I dislike Apple for compatibility reasons.
Name me some of your "compatibility reasons", please. I use both Windows and Macintosh and frankly I haven't really come across any of your "compatibility reasons" yet. In fact, I find that Windows (or rather, Microsoft software) is generally less compatible than Macintosh and *Nix is. More Microsoft formats are closed-source, proprietary than Apple. Especially now that Apple's operating system is based on Unix and runs atop an open source platform.
quoted 5 lines I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with> I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with > a mission to crush evil Microsoft. But if they were in a similiar > situation as Microsoft, they would be acting in a similiar manner - > just like every company does. (if not even worse - since Steve Jobs is > somewhat fucked up, if the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley portrays
him
quoted 1 line accurately at all)> accurately at all)
The only theme of "Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a mission to crush evil Microsoft" is in your head. Nowhere has Apple stated that that's their "theme". You have a problem with a certain minority of vocal Apple users, not Apple itself, it sounds.
quoted 1 line I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products> I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products
quoted 5 lines that do not provide any additional functionality than commodity> that do not provide any additional functionality than commodity > products. (this can be very subjective obviously - but really I have > no personal use for the apparent advantages OS X provides, or any > other Apple product) This is especially true for the fact that I > cannot afford to pay a premium on any of their products - I would much
quoted 3 lines rather go with a cheaper unpopular competitive product. Technology> rather go with a cheaper unpopular competitive product. Technology > and consumer devices are expensive and if I can "trim the fat" I will > certainly do so.
The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in to the monitor). The Apple iBook starts at only $999. What was this premium you were referring to again? :)
quoted 4 lines I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the> I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the > only > innovative company in the world and that everyone is simply copying > them.
There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or larger platform just because a few users are idiots. I don't think that's very fair, do you?
quoted 1 line I dislike Apple for their support of DRM.> I dislike Apple for their support of DRM.
Every online music store to my knowledge uses DRM. Except maybe some marginal ones. DRM is unfortunately a necessary evil. Because, as we see with stuff like Kazaa and Soulseek, a lot of people will ruin a good thing. Apple wasn't the one that wanted to use DRM, it was the labels. Do you REALLY think the labels would let the music be released without DRM? Secondly, the DRM is mostly transparent. You can burn unlimited CD-Rs of the music you buy on iTunes Music Store. You can copy the tracks to an unlimited amount of iPods. You can also copy the music to up to FIVE computers you own (or your work computers), including both Mac or PC. You can stream the music to your friends/family on your network. I don't find the store that restrictive at all (although to be honest, I don't use it much since I still prefer to buy music on CD). If you don't like DRM, then don't use the music store. Simple as that. It's just one small aspect of Apple as a business.
quoted 1 line I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field".> I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field".
He's a salesman. I think his "reality-distortion field" is kinda funny myself. If nothing else, you gotta admit that Steve Jobs has changed the computer industry... numerous times.
quoted 3 lines I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple> I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple > on > every negative comment about Apple or Steve Jobs.
Just like you're making disparaging comments about Apple just now? And for the record, I'm a Windows user, too... so don't try lumping me in to your little categories.
quoted 5 lines NOTE:> NOTE: > I dislike Microsoft even more and for completely different reasons > than Apple, and I would probably encourage people who have the money > to purchase an Apple computer if they weren't using it to just play > games. I even like OS X! The above reasons are similiar reasons to why
quoted 7 lines I also hate the whole nVidia vs. ATi fanboyism. I personally use> I also hate the whole nVidia vs. ATi fanboyism. I personally use > Linux on commodity PC hardware - but I'm not going to preach to you > about it - especially since I know there's hundreds of other Linux > geeks who have lost touch with reality long ago that feel the need to > preach anyway. So if someone hates company XYZ without stating any > reason and are not on the subject of attacking company XYZ, please > just accept it and move on with your lives.
Well said. I enjoyed your post, btw. I mean no disrespect or animosity in my reply. I just though I'd clarify a different point of view. I respect your opinion on the matter and you're certainly entitled to everything you said. -- Mr. Tangent [the binary police] www.mrtangent.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 17:39Robert Feuchtl:D can I hug you?? .... * * * . . . .. but, I do admit was considering tatooing an ATARI-l
From:
Robert Feuchtl
To:
idm list
Date:
Tue, 02 Nov 2004 18:39:06 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
RE: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <4187C63A.8030302@groove.de>
:D can I hug you?? .... * * * . . . .. but, I do admit was considering tatooing an ATARI-logo on my forhead. seriously. /!\ATARI - power without the price robert Ian Monroe wrote:
quoted 235 lines Now, see, this is what I'm talking about.>Now, see, this is what I'm talking about. > >The Cult of Mac - the Cult of Jobs. > >I use both Apple and PC machines, in a variety of capacities, and I've >used every windows version since 3.1, every macOS version since 7.0, and >a wide variety of *nix OS's. I currently support a mixed platform >network that's about 70% PC, 20% mac, and about 10% Debian. > >The fact of the matter is that Nicholas pointed out valid problems with >the Mac platform, and immediately the evangleical mac users rush to >argue. > >I know, from personal experience, that there are large >incompatabilities, particularly with pre-OSX macs, and other computers. >There were huge network problems. The Appletalk protocol is one of the >ugliest, least effiecient protocols around. There's even >incompatabilites with file systems - Try using a PC to burn a CD of >files that are stored on an HFS partition. Can't be done. > >There IS a premium for apple hardware - you're essentially paying for >design. And while that may be fine for some people, I find it grossly >inefficent. The "affordable" eMacs and entry level powerbooks you >mention are so far back on the hardware curve as to be ridiculous. Your >$999 powerbook is going to need to be replaced in 2 years, if you hope >to use anything more computationally advanced that word processing and >interweb. Your $999 commodity PC laptop has twice that life. > >And there are whole categories of problems that come up with Macs that >simply have no solution, ever. I could name a litany of them that I've >encountered personally, but I don't want to bore you any further than I >have already. > >But here's the thing that gets me the most. 20% of the machines that I >support are Macs, and they demand well over half of the support time. >But every mac user I talk to tries to tell me Macs don't crash. Well, >they do. All the time. Not as much with OSX, but as far as I'm >concerned, it's too little too late. I've wasted too much of my life >troubleshooting arcane Mac problems to be fooled by the rhetoric. And >what rhetoric! I know a half a dozen people with Apple logos TATOOED on >their bodies! I don't know any pc users dumb enough to have Microsoft's >logo indelibly etched into their flesh, do you? > >So yeah, I don't like macs. I've got a computer science degree, I use >and support macs every single day, I know how they work, I understand >why people like them, but it's all smoke and mirrors as far as I'm >concerned. I'll be happy to support them, for a premium. But I will >never, ever buy Apple products for my own use. > >My .02 > >-Ian > > >PS - DRM, no matter how transparent, no matter how well meaning, no >matter how or why it's implemented, is a tool of the Devil. IMHO. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: John/Slackonomics [mailto:slack@slackonomics.com] >Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:36 AM >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple > > >On Nov 1, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Nicholas Bolibruch wrote: > > > >>I dislike Apple for compatibility reasons. >> >> > >Name me some of your "compatibility reasons", please. I use both >Windows and Macintosh and frankly I haven't really come across any of >your "compatibility reasons" yet. In fact, I find that Windows (or >rather, Microsoft software) is generally less compatible than Macintosh >and *Nix is. More Microsoft formats are closed-source, proprietary >than Apple. Especially now that Apple's operating system is based on >Unix and runs atop an open source platform. > > > >>I dislike the theme of Apple being the god-send of a corporation with >>a mission to crush evil Microsoft. But if they were in a similiar >>situation as Microsoft, they would be acting in a similiar manner - >>just like every company does. (if not even worse - since Steve Jobs is >>somewhat fucked up, if the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley portrays >> >> >him > > >>accurately at all) >> >> > >The only theme of "Apple being the god-send of a corporation with a >mission to crush evil Microsoft" is in your head. Nowhere has Apple >stated that that's their "theme". You have a problem with a certain >minority of vocal Apple users, not Apple itself, it sounds. > > > >>I dislike Apple because I associate their products to premium products >> >> > > > >>that do not provide any additional functionality than commodity >>products. (this can be very subjective obviously - but really I have >>no personal use for the apparent advantages OS X provides, or any >>other Apple product) This is especially true for the fact that I >>cannot afford to pay a premium on any of their products - I would much >> >> > > > >>rather go with a cheaper unpopular competitive product. Technology >>and consumer devices are expensive and if I can "trim the fat" I will >>certainly do so. >> >> > >The Apple eMac is $799, including monitor (well, it's all built-in to >the monitor). The Apple iBook starts at only $999. What was this >premium you were referring to again? :) > > > >>I dislike Apple for the fanboy/girls need to act as if Apple is the >>only >>innovative company in the world and that everyone is simply copying >>them. >> >> > >There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or >larger platform just because a few users are idiots. I don't think >that's very fair, do you? > > > >>I dislike Apple for their support of DRM. >> >> > >Every online music store to my knowledge uses DRM. Except maybe some >marginal ones. DRM is unfortunately a necessary evil. Because, as we >see with stuff like Kazaa and Soulseek, a lot of people will ruin a >good thing. Apple wasn't the one that wanted to use DRM, it was the >labels. Do you REALLY think the labels would let the music be released >without DRM? > >Secondly, the DRM is mostly transparent. You can burn unlimited CD-Rs >of the music you buy on iTunes Music Store. You can copy the tracks to >an unlimited amount of iPods. You can also copy the music to up to >FIVE computers you own (or your work computers), including both Mac or >PC. You can stream the music to your friends/family on your network. >I don't find the store that restrictive at all (although to be honest, >I don't use it much since I still prefer to buy music on CD). > >If you don't like DRM, then don't use the music store. Simple as that. > It's just one small aspect of Apple as a business. > > > >>I dislike Steve Jobs for his "reality-distortion field". >> >> > >He's a salesman. I think his "reality-distortion field" is kinda funny >myself. If nothing else, you gotta admit that Steve Jobs has changed >the computer industry... numerous times. > > > >>I dislike Apple for their fanboy/girls and their need to defend Apple >>on >>every negative comment about Apple or Steve Jobs. >> >> > >Just like you're making disparaging comments about Apple just now? And >for the record, I'm a Windows user, too... so don't try lumping me in >to your little categories. > > > >>NOTE: >>I dislike Microsoft even more and for completely different reasons >>than Apple, and I would probably encourage people who have the money >>to purchase an Apple computer if they weren't using it to just play >>games. I even like OS X! The above reasons are similiar reasons to why >> >> > > > >>I also hate the whole nVidia vs. ATi fanboyism. I personally use >>Linux on commodity PC hardware - but I'm not going to preach to you >>about it - especially since I know there's hundreds of other Linux >>geeks who have lost touch with reality long ago that feel the need to >>preach anyway. So if someone hates company XYZ without stating any >>reason and are not on the subject of attacking company XYZ, please >>just accept it and move on with your lives. >> >> > >Well said. I enjoyed your post, btw. I mean no disrespect or >animosity in my reply. I just though I'd clarify a different point of >view. I respect your opinion on the matter and you're certainly >entitled to everything you said. > >-- > >Mr. Tangent [the binary police] >www.mrtangent.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >
-- B O B H U M I D @ G R O O V E M A G A Z I N E ( t e c h n o l o g i c a l _ e d i t o r ) servicelinks: http://www.groove.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-03 04:25Irene McCWhew!!! Asked and answered ::: thank you ALL for the deluge of comments regarding Apple; m
From:
Irene McC
To:
Date:
Wed, 03 Nov 2004 06:25:57 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <418879F5.32671.40EA4@localhost>
Whew!!! Asked and answered ::: thank you ALL for the deluge of comments regarding Apple; my innocent little question sparked off quite an avalanch there :-) Regards from hot and windy Cape Town I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-03 14:57Robert FeuchtlIrene McC wrote: >Whew!!! > >Asked and answered ::: thank you ALL for the deluge of commen
From:
Robert Feuchtl
To:
idm list
Date:
Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:57:52 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <4188F1F0.5010901@groove.de>
Irene McC wrote:
quoted 7 lines Whew!!!>Whew!!! > >Asked and answered ::: thank you ALL for the deluge of comments >regarding Apple; my innocent little question sparked off quite an >avalanch there :-) > >
itz always like that with religious issues ;-) robert p.s. all this discussions might end when we all have 15 GHz computers being able to emulate almost every other computer platform with a breeze... so you just click on whatever you want to use on one day.. we might be able to download complete images of turn-on computer systems and the content too.. _*click here*_ if you want to download a complete G5 2x1500 1024MB RAM, 100GB HD graphic designer´s system, all relevant software installed.... and so on... phew.. i am sure that´ll come
quoted 14 lines Regards from hot and windy Cape Town>Regards from hot and windy Cape Town > >I >* > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >
-- B O B H U M I D @ G R O O V E M A G A Z I N E ( t e c h n o l o g i c a l _ e d i t o r ) servicelinks: http://www.groove.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 18:05muffinHello, > Now, see, this is what I'm talking about. > > The Cult of Mac - the Cult of Jobs.
From:
muffin
To:
incidental derogatory mnemonics
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:05:53 +0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
RE: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <D6437B2B-2CF9-11D9-AF92-000A95D0D70C@signmytits.com>
Hello,
quoted 13 lines Now, see, this is what I'm talking about.> Now, see, this is what I'm talking about. > > The Cult of Mac - the Cult of Jobs. > > I use both Apple and PC machines, in a variety of capacities, and I've > used every windows version since 3.1, every macOS version since 7.0, > and > a wide variety of *nix OS's. I currently support a mixed platform > network that's about 70% PC, 20% mac, and about 10% Debian. > > The fact of the matter is that Nicholas pointed out valid problems with > the Mac platform, and immediately the evangleical mac users rush to > argue.
Or if you point out problems with the Windows problems, evangelical Windows users rush to argue ... Or everytime you point out the problems with Islam loads of evangelical Muslims rush in to argue. or every time you point out the problems with Christianity loads of evangelical Christians rush in. Or every time you point out the problems with the Bush Administration no one rushes in to deny it...
quoted 4 lines I know, from personal experience, that there are large> I know, from personal experience, that there are large > incompatabilities, particularly with pre-OSX macs, and other computers. > There were huge network problems. The Appletalk protocol is one of the > ugliest, least effiecient protocols around.
Yep. It was designed for something completely different to what it ended up being, and not for a mixed use environment. NetBEUI or whatever it is was pretty damn ugly too.
quoted 3 lines There's even> There's even > incompatabilites with file systems - Try using a PC to burn a CD of > files that are stored on an HFS partition. Can't be done.
Because no one cares to implement HFS drivers for winodws? Try using a mac to burn a CD of files that are stored on an NTFS partition. This is silly however, why should Macs try to be windows compatible? Hell if you want to pick problems with Macs then we could just all say "Email Virus" and I think we'd have countered it.
quoted 8 lines There IS a premium for apple hardware - you're essentially paying for> There IS a premium for apple hardware - you're essentially paying for > design. And while that may be fine for some people, I find it grossly > inefficent. The "affordable" eMacs and entry level powerbooks you > mention are so far back on the hardware curve as to be ridiculous. > Your > $999 powerbook is going to need to be replaced in 2 years, if you hope > to use anything more computationally advanced that word processing and > interweb. Your $999 commodity PC laptop has twice that life.
Only if your operating system bloats. OS.X has by all reports been getting faster in the last few years as it's matured. can't say that for windows (or gnome ;-) KDE is so much better)
quoted 2 lines And there are whole categories of problems that come up with Macs that> And there are whole categories of problems that come up with Macs that > simply have no solution, ever.
That's the same with any computer platformin my experience. some it's easier to fix some things on, other it's not. I've had total nightmare with certain things on Linux or on Windows or on FreeBSD. shit happens.
quoted 5 lines But here's the thing that gets me the most. 20% of the machines that I> But here's the thing that gets me the most. 20% of the machines that I > support are Macs, and they demand well over half of the support time. > But every mac user I talk to tries to tell me Macs don't crash. Well, > they do. All the time. Not as much with OSX, but as far as I'm > concerned, it's too little too late.
So, because something was once problematic it should never be used again? If this is Mac Users Anonymous can I stand up and say "I've got a Mac and it Crashes". Can I also add "I've got a FreeBSD box, and it crashes" and "I've got a WinXP machine and it crashes". And "I've got a Nokia 6600 and it crashes". Big shit. If you are stupid enough to listen to drivel people say and believe it, or people are stupid enough to say it, that's no reason to discount a platform.
quoted 7 lines I've wasted too much of my life> I've wasted too much of my life > troubleshooting arcane Mac problems to be fooled by the rhetoric. And > what rhetoric! I know a half a dozen people with Apple logos TATOOED > on > their bodies! I don't know any pc users dumb enough to have > Microsoft's > logo indelibly etched into their flesh, do you?
Tatoos are stupid whatever, so that's not really a fair argument ;-)
quoted 5 lines So yeah, I don't like macs. I've got a computer science degree, I use> So yeah, I don't like macs. I've got a computer science degree, I use > and support macs every single day, I know how they work, I understand > why people like them, but it's all smoke and mirrors as far as I'm > concerned. I'll be happy to support them, for a premium. But I will > never, ever buy Apple products for my own use.
all computer platforms are smoke and mirrors. Taste is personal. I've got a CS and AI degree - if that's any qualification - and I prefer Macs. I've been using (and supporting users) for 12 years now, and I'd say I've had shitty problems with Mac, Linux, Windows, BBC model B's, Atari STs, Amigas, Psions, Symbian Series 60 phones, Cray supercomputers, Vax VMS's, Sun Sparcs and various others. I can't say that I despise one more than any other, I've just chosen to use a Mac as in my experience they do what I want. I still switch to Linux or FreeBSD when that's the right task (my servers) or windows when that's the right task like running hardware which is closed source and only has drivers for windows ;-) The thing which would be nice to admit is that all computers, in fact, all technology sucks as it's evolving to our needs, but our needs are evolving. For some people one thing is going to be good, for some another, whatever it is Macs are better PCs is kind of like saying Catholics are better than Jews. Stupid. They are just something different. Now get over it and start talking about music. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 20:04John/SlackonomicsOn Nov 2, 2004, at 11:27 AM, Ian Monroe wrote: > The fact of the matter is that Nicholas p
From:
John/Slackonomics
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:04:06 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
RE: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <59B4463E-2D0A-11D9-BED1-000502B18FAA@slackonomics.com>
On Nov 2, 2004, at 11:27 AM, Ian Monroe wrote:
quoted 3 lines The fact of the matter is that Nicholas pointed out valid problems with> The fact of the matter is that Nicholas pointed out valid problems with > the Mac platform, and immediately the evangleical mac users rush to > argue.
I didn't bring it up, I just don't like FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) being spread about something (in this case, Apple) I use and actually enjoy.
quoted 6 lines I know, from personal experience, that there are large> I know, from personal experience, that there are large > incompatabilities, particularly with pre-OSX macs, and other computers. > There were huge network problems. The Appletalk protocol is one of the > ugliest, least effiecient protocols around. There's even > incompatabilites with file systems - Try using a PC to burn a CD of > files that are stored on an HFS partition. Can't be done.
You don't have to use Appletalk. Apple, as far as I can remember, was the first computer company to implement TCP/IP in mainstream computers. They use almost every networking protocol, so Appletalk is a mute point. Secondly, it sounds like the problem you mentioned is with PCs, not Macs. I can burn (and read/open/modify) files from the PC. Why can't the PC do the same? I can connect to a Samba/SMB share without any third-party apps, as well.
quoted 8 lines There IS a premium for apple hardware - you're essentially paying for> There IS a premium for apple hardware - you're essentially paying for > design. And while that may be fine for some people, I find it grossly > inefficent. The "affordable" eMacs and entry level powerbooks you > mention are so far back on the hardware curve as to be ridiculous. > Your > $999 powerbook is going to need to be replaced in 2 years, if you hope > to use anything more computationally advanced that word processing and > interweb. Your $999 commodity PC laptop has twice that life.
I mentioned iBooks, not Powerbooks. I think you're smoking crack though because I'm using a G3 PowerMac that is over five years old and it still does everything I need it to do (including doing audio). My Cube is also several years old and runs very nicely. Obsolescence is a thing that all computers are affected by, not just Apple. But I categorically deny that these Macs are going to be "useless" in a few years time. An argument can also be made that Apple computers simply last longer. If my personal experience is any indication then this is very true. I know people who are using Apple IIs and the original Macs STILL (sad, but true... they're older folks at a Macintosh User Group I visit). Tell me how many 286s or 386s you see still being used every day. I haven't seen one or even heard of one in years.
quoted 2 lines But here's the thing that gets me the most. 20% of the machines that I> But here's the thing that gets me the most. 20% of the machines that I > support are Macs, and they demand well over half of the support time.
This is your personal experience, and I won't tell you that you're a liar. However, one reason this could be is because Apple caters as being an "easy to use" computer (they're more easy to use, imo, than Windows, by far) and as such, a lot of Apple users are not technically-inclined. Therefore they just expect the computer "to work". The Macintosh works remarkably well, but every system has problems occasionally (far less in my experience than with Windows), and these users need their hands held.
quoted 5 lines But every mac user I talk to tries to tell me Macs don't crash. Well,> But every mac user I talk to tries to tell me Macs don't crash. Well, > they do. All the time. Not as much with OSX, but as far as I'm > concerned, it's too little too late. I've wasted too much of my life > troubleshooting arcane Mac problems to be fooled by the rhetoric. And > what rhetoric!
I've personally gone upwards of six months without a crash. OS X is built on *BSD Unix and I've found it's remarkably stable. Contrast that to the billions (okay, not billions but easily thousands) of blue screens I've seen over my decade+ Windows-using experience.
quoted 4 lines I know a half a dozen people with Apple logos TATOOED on> I know a half a dozen people with Apple logos TATOOED on > their bodies! I don't know any pc users dumb enough to have > Microsoft's > logo indelibly etched into their flesh, do you?
How is it any different to have a tattoo of an Apple logo than having a Harley-Davidson logo tattooed? Or a silly cartoon character? Or anything else for that matter? Obviously those people LOVE their computers and wanted to express that love/connection. You can't denigrate someone else's experience simply because you don't either understand or agree with it. It *means* something to them and they get enjoyment out of both using the Mac and identifying with the culture. What you fail to understand is that it *is* culture.
quoted 5 lines So yeah, I don't like macs. I've got a computer science degree, I use> So yeah, I don't like macs. I've got a computer science degree, I use > and support macs every single day, I know how they work, I understand > why people like them, but it's all smoke and mirrors as far as I'm > concerned. I'll be happy to support them, for a premium. But I will > never, ever buy Apple products for my own use.
So tell me... what is your thoughts on the multitudes of security flaws that are found in Windows on a nearly daily basis? How about the over 70,000 viruses that affect Windows (there are *zero* viruses thus far for OS X, btw)? How about getting a virus, worm or spyware simply by going to a website if you're using Windows? How about all the spyware and adware (there is no adware/spyware for Mac OS X to my knowledge)? One of the reasons I don't use my Windows PC as much anymore is because of the enormity and severity of the virus/spyware/adware problem. I'm actually scared to use it on the internet. They say the average Windows PC is infected with a virus within 45 seconds of it being connected to the internet! And this is without user intervention... simply going to a rogue website can infect your machine. I'm very technically adept, having used computers now for over twenty years... but using Windows on a (inter)networked connection without a LOT of precautions and extra (expensive) software/firewalls/virus-checkers/ad-aware/etc., is truly asking for trouble. -- Mr. Tangent [the binary police] www.mrtangent.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 04:53Rick Strom> This appears to be from an elite group of haters. Also would like to > hear the reason b
From:
Rick Strom
To:
Date:
Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:53:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <3043.66.63.160.188.1099371235.squirrel@66.63.160.188>
quoted 3 lines This appears to be from an elite group of haters. Also would like to> This appears to be from an elite group of haters. Also would like to > hear the reason behind such a statement....maybe it has something to do > with compatability issues?
Hard to gripe on Apple after OS X, but if someone told me the source of their hate was the exclusionary nature of the Mac's user interface, it would not shock me. Nor if it were the multitudes of users who insist (incorrectly) that their Mac does something a Windoze box don't. Not an excuse for "hate," as it were, but neither is _hating_ M$ for the barrage of assaults its OS suffers, viral or otherwise. -- V, ~Rick Strom http://www.rick-strom.com http://www.glowdot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 05:14Satan> Hard to gripe on Apple after OS X, but if someone told me the source of > their hate was
From:
Satan
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 1 Nov 2004 23:14:14 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <0979F30A-2C8E-11D9-8673-000A95854476@cox.net>
quoted 5 lines Hard to gripe on Apple after OS X, but if someone told me the source of> Hard to gripe on Apple after OS X, but if someone told me the source of > their hate was the exclusionary nature of the Mac's user interface, it > would not shock me. Nor if it were the multitudes of users who insist > (incorrectly) that their Mac does something a Windoze box don't. >
Not certain what you mean by 'the exclusionary nature of the Mac's user interface'........ also what is a Windoze Box? Since i have a Mac i'm unfamiliar with this. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 06:22andrew jonesThis has probably already been brought up, but a lot of ppl aren't terribly happy with App
From:
andrew jones
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 01:22:59 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <A44D85CA-2C97-11D9-A459-0003934AA8EE@mac.com>
This has probably already been brought up, but a lot of ppl aren't terribly happy with Apple's consistent squashing of 3rd party itunes and ipod software: http://www.boingboing.net/2004/10/31/more_on_apples_break.html Peace, A On Nov 1, 2004, at 11:53 PM, Rick Strom wrote:
quoted 25 lines This appears to be from an elite group of haters. Also would like to>> This appears to be from an elite group of haters. Also would like to >> hear the reason behind such a statement....maybe it has something to >> do >> with compatability issues? > > Hard to gripe on Apple after OS X, but if someone told me the source of > their hate was the exclusionary nature of the Mac's user interface, it > would not shock me. Nor if it were the multitudes of users who insist > (incorrectly) that their Mac does something a Windoze box don't. > > Not an excuse for "hate," as it were, but neither is _hating_ M$ for > the > barrage of assaults its OS suffers, viral or otherwise. > > -- > V, > ~Rick Strom > http://www.rick-strom.com > http://www.glowdot.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
Andrew Jones 912 Euclid Ave. Birmingham, AL, 35213 407-927-7607 aim: liminal18 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 07:51John/SlackonomicsOn Nov 1, 2004, at 10:53 PM, Rick Strom wrote: > Nor if it were the multitudes of users wh
From:
John/Slackonomics
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 01:51:44 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <0A4B6188-2CA4-11D9-90DE-000502B18FAA@slackonomics.com>
On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:53 PM, Rick Strom wrote:
quoted 2 lines Nor if it were the multitudes of users who insist> Nor if it were the multitudes of users who insist > (incorrectly) that their Mac does something a Windoze box don't.
I can recompile *Nix apps and use the multitude of free open source apps on my Mac... let me see you try that on Windows. :) -- Mr. Tangent [the binary police] www.mrtangent.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 08:49Rick Strom> I can recompile *Nix apps and use the multitude of free open source > apps on my Mac...
From:
Rick Strom
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 00:49:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <33347.68.70.46.43.1099385392.squirrel@68.70.46.43>
quoted 2 lines I can recompile *Nix apps and use the multitude of free open source> I can recompile *Nix apps and use the multitude of free open source > apps on my Mac... let me see you try that on Windows. :)
Or you could just run them on x86 architecture like they were meant to, and have a glorious experience from day 1. I see your point, but... -- V, ~Rick Strom http://www.rick-strom.com http://www.glowdot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 08:59John/SlackonomicsOn Nov 2, 2004, at 2:49 AM, Rick Strom wrote: >> I can recompile *Nix apps and use the mul
From:
John/Slackonomics
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 02:59:09 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <75AC8FD0-2CAD-11D9-BED1-000502B18FAA@slackonomics.com>
On Nov 2, 2004, at 2:49 AM, Rick Strom wrote:
quoted 7 lines I can recompile *Nix apps and use the multitude of free open source>> I can recompile *Nix apps and use the multitude of free open source >> apps on my Mac... let me see you try that on Windows. :) > > Or you could just run them on x86 architecture like they were meant to, > and have a glorious experience from day 1. > > I see your point, but...
Most (original) Unix apps weren't designed on x86 architecture. Unix was around way before x86 was even in existence. Not to mention the Sun, SPARC, etc. architectures. -- Mr. Tangent [the binary police] www.mrtangent.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-03 02:43xenlab.ezrpmmost anything can be compiled on windows as well, with cygwin (http://www.cygwin.com/). Wh
From:
xenlab.ezrpm
To:
IDM list
Date:
Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:43:17 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <418845C5.8080700@ezrpm.com>
most anything can be compiled on windows as well, with cygwin (http://www.cygwin.com/). While it may be difficult, and perhaps buggy at times, there are plenty of solid implementations of traditionally *nix software that can be (re)packaged for windows deployements. given that os x is a bsd variant, you're not streaching that far. and for every package you need from *nix / open source world - there is bound to be a windows equivalent. couple that with the ease of pirating windows software, and your argument is not as strong as you might think. but don't get me wrong. i'm in the market for a new laptop and am leaning strongly towards a powerbook. mad love, .eric * * *xenlab (music) { * / .nfo + d.load =/ http://xenlab.ezrpm.com/ <http://xenlab.ezrpm.com> *}* John/Slackonomics wrote:
quoted 22 lines On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:53 PM, Rick Strom wrote:> On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:53 PM, Rick Strom wrote: > >> Nor if it were the multitudes of users who insist >> (incorrectly) that their Mac does something a Windoze box don't. > > > I can recompile *Nix apps and use the multitude of free open source > apps on my Mac... let me see you try that on Windows. :) > > -- > > Mr. Tangent [the binary police] > www.mrtangent.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > >
2004-11-02 14:41Robert FeuchtlIrene McC wrote: >On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote: > > > >>I just really hate App
From:
Robert Feuchtl
To:
idm list
Date:
Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:41:14 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
[idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <41879C8A.9090504@groove.de>
Irene McC wrote:
quoted 16 lines On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote:>On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote: > > > >>I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything from >>them for my own use. >> >> > >What's with hating Apple??? I'm aware of a hate campaign against >Windoze & all things Gates, but sitting here in South Africa I >haven't been aware of Apple being painted the Bad Guy. > >Please elucidate. > >
ppl of earth.. :) microsoft sucks too, of course. even my grandmother is aware of that :) its just that every company that gets to a certain size will start to smell funny. capitalism has no niches for dedicated company philosophy. with the effort to control the MP3-gadgetry market the philosphy of apple has reached a ridiculous point. the APPLE is growing unnaturally due to iPod sales and now it is not possible any more to preserve the avantgarde-philosophy.. anyway the iPod is a superb product, very cleverly designed and desereves its popularity. BUT IT IS also very much a status item rather then superlatest technology. if you dig deep in the internet you´ll find more advanced stuff. BUT usally with the negative side that the optical design is weak or cheesy.. a lot of iPod users do not want the best sounding PortaPro headphones on their IPods, they prefer the ugly "sticky-in-your-ears"-quatsch that simply offers NO bass to the sense of hearing.. cause it looks sooo techy and slick :) (dont kill me now, pleeasse. its the truth... you know it) regarding iTunes: today apple´s legal activities equals the behaviour of microsoft´in other issues.. monopolism as its best. apple is trying hard to push iTunes in its own way without actually adopting to other content providers / distributors needs or philosophy. they just don´t fucking care. I believe music-industry has to absoluetely reinvent again and most indie-labels in europe are aware of that. but apple is like: "so what?" we´ll see where it ends. i am actually quite curious... there is no difference anymore between apples and pears. apple just looks more sleek as usual... its this thing with growth.. "unnatural growth" is the traditional chinese medicinal term for "cancer" .. fuck capitalism (when it gets too big) - kudos to capitalism (when it stays small) bob humid p.s. HAIL ATARI!!!!!!!!!
quoted 12 lines I>I >* > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >
-- B O B H U M I D @ G R O O V E M A G A Z I N E ( t e c h n o l o g i c a l _ e d i t o r ) c/o robert feuchtl aachener strasse 72 50674 köln germany +49 (0)221 42 333 42 +49 (0)163 514 85 35 servicelinks: http://www.groove.de
2004-11-02 15:25Fisk IndustriesThis 'thread' about Apple/iPod is getting pretty boring; its a bit like people arguing wha
From:
Fisk Industries
To:
Cc:
idm list
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:25:28 +0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <6CEE4532-2CE3-11D9-8F63-000A95A66932@fisk-industries.co.uk>
This 'thread' about Apple/iPod is getting pretty boring; its a bit like people arguing what the best colour is and trying to persuade everyone else that they're right...next topic please....preferably IDM related. On 2 Nov 2004, at 14:41, Robert Feuchtl wrote: Irene McC wrote:
quoted 13 lines On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote:> On 1 Nov 2004 at 12:10, Ian Monroe wrote: > > >> I just really hate Apple, and I refuse to buy anything from >> them for my own use. >> > > What's with hating Apple??? I'm aware of a hate campaign against > Windoze & all things Gates, but sitting here in South Africa I haven't > been aware of Apple being painted the Bad Guy. > > Please elucidate. >
2004-11-02 15:32adam@damek.orgQuoting Robert Feuchtl <bobhumid@groove.de>: > its just that every company that gets to a
From:
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:32:12 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with Apple
permalink · <1099409532.4187a87ccf874@www.damek.org>
Quoting Robert Feuchtl <bobhumid@groove.de>:
quoted 3 lines its just that every company that gets to a certain size will start to> its just that every company that gets to a certain size will start to > smell funny. > capitalism has no niches for dedicated company philosophy.
No, it's the laws we allow to govern capitalism. We could redefine corporations and their responsibilities any way we want. The laws are molded by the people. Well, the wealthy people, but that just means it's an uphill battle. -Adam "redirect corporate hate" Piontek damek.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-10-31 16:43dj pieOn Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:37:20 -0700, seek <eclectics@comcast.net> wrote: > > Cool beans. Th
From:
dj pie
To:
seek
Cc:
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:43:57 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
Reply to:
Re: [idm] (OT) shopping for an Ipod
permalink · <3394bfe004103108435c84d6a0@mail.gmail.com>
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:37:20 -0700, seek <eclectics@comcast.net> wrote:
quoted 12 lines Cool beans. Thank you for all of the info, and for the 'dudebox' recommendation.> > Cool beans. Thank you for all of the info, and for the 'dudebox' recommendation. > I'm still undecided, but the Dell is more of interest to me than > is the Apple (not of my eye). And the ship date is now December lst: > they've pushed it back another day. > > I'm perusing the Nomad Jukebox, too, subsequent to this thread. > They've a 60GB model: > > http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=9288&nav=technicalSpecifications > or > http://tinyurl.com/6bshc
[snip] yeah, my boyfriend (who got me the dell dj :) ) has a nomad jukebox, and he loves it, especially its ability to record as well as play. he's had his for a couple of years and it works really well, and also has recorded me at several gigs :). oh, and another nifty dell dj feature is that it has a little voice recorder built-in. -rachel -- [gilmore] i think Kerry could win if he just promised to get Halo2 out on time. http://piesarenice.net funkier than you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 13:24Alan LucasOh come one... the people on the IDM list think that Warp have really fallen off. ; ) On T
From:
Alan Lucas
To:
incidental derogatory mnemonics
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:24:22 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with music
permalink · <5e21321c041102052454b9b716@mail.gmail.com>
Oh come one... the people on the IDM list think that Warp have really fallen off. ; ) On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:48:55 -0500, chthonic streams <chthonic@chthonicstreams.com> wrote:
quoted 16 lines There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or> > > >There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or > >larger platform just because a few users are idiots. I don't think > >that's very fair, do you? > > kind of like disliking a label or an artist because of the bahavior > of their fans...for example, "warp records is elitist because that's > what the people are like on the idm list" ; ) > > d. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 13:52chthonic streams>Oh come one... the people on the IDM list think that Warp have really >fallen off. ; ) he
From:
chthonic streams
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:52:03 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with music
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's wrong with music
permalink · <p05210603bdad40ec906a@[64.63.223.198]>
quoted 2 lines Oh come one... the people on the IDM list think that Warp have really>Oh come one... the people on the IDM list think that Warp have really >fallen off. ; )
heh...i understand your joke, but technically that would only prove the point...people that are so elitist they finally even exclude the very thing that gave their elitism existence!
quoted 10 lines On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:48:55 -0500, chthonic streams>On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:48:55 -0500, chthonic streams ><chthonic@chthonicstreams.com> wrote: >> > >> >There's fanboys for every OS. You can't blame the company and or >> >larger platform just because a few users are idiots. I don't think >> >that's very fair, do you? >> >> kind of like disliking a label or an artist because of the bahavior >> of their fans...for example, "warp records is elitist because that's > > what the people are like on the idm list" ; )
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 17:10seek----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Lucas" > Oh come one... the people on the IDM lis
From:
seek
To:
incidental derogatory mnemonics
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:10:27 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] what's right with music: Merck and Schematic
permalink · <00ad01c4c0fe$d947bd00$1d45a443@obelisk>
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Lucas"
quoted 2 lines Oh come one... the people on the IDM list think that Warp have really> Oh come one... the people on the IDM list think that Warp have really > fallen off. ; )
Warp have fallen off: they've lost the beat. Listen for their new tunes in iPod commercials. ;) What's right with music of late is coming out of Florida: Merck Records and Schematic. Those two labels have both been pumping great stuff this year: must be something in the (rain)water. seek np: and now, back to your regularly scheduled program --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 17:30basura.i wholeheartedly agree with this- Miami's been doing it right. Merck, Schematic, Metatroni
From:
basura.
To:
seek , idm
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:30:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Merck and Schematic/Diamond Ice/Outside of IDM
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's right with music: Merck and Schematic
permalink · <20041102173016.58875.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com>
i wholeheartedly agree with this- Miami's been doing it right. Merck, Schematic, Metatronix, Beta Bodega- to tell you the truth, i've been kinda slowly losing interest with lots of the idm out there as of late ie. Warp [though the new Team Shadetek and Arcola releases are pretty good], except for the above mentioned labels. they haven't disappointed me yet...and let's not forget about that new narita record label. i've also been enjoying that Diamond Ice/Hamijama split on Metatronix- that Diamond Ice kinda reminds me of old minimal PBO before Chocolate Industries started dishing out mostly hip hop...can someone tell me more about this Diamond Ice? i likey alot. thanks bsra. Some great stuff i've been listening to outside of the IDM realm- -Les Georges Leningrad -Autonervous -The Vanishing all excellent. i've been really sinking my teeth into stuff that sounds like this. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a
2004-11-02 18:34andrew jonesDiamond Ice is an old school bass freak. was one of the original djs on the 90.whatever th
From:
andrew jones
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:34:17 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Merck and Schematic/Diamond Ice/Outside of IDM
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Merck and Schematic/Diamond Ice/Outside of IDM
permalink · <CDD92D4B-2CFD-11D9-A459-0003934AA8EE@mac.com>
Diamond Ice is an old school bass freak. was one of the original djs on the 90.whatever the bomb. he also raps. cool guy, well worth seeing. intense base electro. -a On Nov 2, 2004, at 12:30 PM, basura. wrote:
quoted 24 lines i wholeheartedly agree with this- Miami's been doing it right. Merck,> i wholeheartedly agree with this- Miami's been doing it right. Merck, > Schematic, Metatronix, Beta Bodega- to tell you the truth, i've been > kinda slowly losing interest with lots of the idm out there as of late > ie. Warp [though the new Team Shadetek and Arcola releases are pretty > good], except for the above mentioned labels. they haven't > disappointed me yet...and let's not forget about that new narita > record label. i've also been enjoying that Diamond Ice/Hamijama split > on Metatronix- that Diamond Ice kinda reminds me of old minimal PBO > before Chocolate Industries started dishing out mostly hip hop...can > someone tell me more about this Diamond Ice? i likey alot. thanks > > bsra. > > Some great stuff i've been listening to outside of the IDM realm- > -Les Georges Leningrad > -Autonervous > -The Vanishing > all excellent. i've been really sinking my teeth into stuff that > sounds like this. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a
Andrew Jones 912 Euclid Ave. Birmingham, AL, 35213 407-927-7607 aim: liminal18 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 18:13StaticBeatsIm gonna slide into the middle of this thread and say if you think Warp have fallen off yo
From:
StaticBeats
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:13:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
[idm] Warp's still got it
Reply to:
Re: [idm] what's right with music: Merck and Schematic
permalink · <20041102181318.81411.qmail@web54008.mail.yahoo.com>
Im gonna slide into the middle of this thread and say if you think Warp have fallen off you *must* have a listen to the new Beans album, the new Jimmy Edgar album, and the new Home Video EP. All three are excellent releases - not to mention the DVD retrospective of exceptional videos and accompanying mix CD and umm Bleep! Then again, I didnt pay attention to the original thread so maybe I'm just taking the bait... Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com Electronic Music > Digital Culture --- seek <eclectics@comcast.net> wrote:
quoted 6 lines ----- Original Message -----> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Lucas" > > > Oh come one... the people on the IDM list think > that Warp have really > > fallen off. ; )
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2004-11-02 19:15Alan LucasI've listened to the new Beans. My fave track on that is still You're Dead, Let's Disco, w
From:
Alan Lucas
To:
StaticBeats
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:15:26 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Warp's still got it
Reply to:
[idm] Warp's still got it
permalink · <5e21321c0411021115bfbe96e@mail.gmail.com>
I've listened to the new Beans. My fave track on that is still You're Dead, Let's Disco, which is of course, minus the Beans wordplay. My only gripe with Beans solo albums is that they'd sound so much better if Priest and Sayyid were contributing... Looking forward to hearing the new Home Video and Edgar releases. I really like the first Home Video 10". Later, Alan On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:13:18 -0800 (PST), StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> wrote:
quoted 29 lines Im gonna slide into the middle of this thread and say> Im gonna slide into the middle of this thread and say > if you think Warp have fallen off you *must* have a > listen to the new Beans album, the new Jimmy Edgar > album, and the new Home Video EP. All three are > excellent releases - not to mention the DVD > retrospective of exceptional videos and accompanying > mix CD and umm Bleep! > > Then again, I didnt pay attention to the original > thread so maybe I'm just taking the bait... > > Shimone/Justes > http://www.staticbeats.com > Electronic Music > Digital Culture > > --- seek <eclectics@comcast.net> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alan Lucas" > > > > > Oh come one... the people on the IDM list think > > that Warp have really > > > fallen off. ; ) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org