IDM Mailing Archive

that's what I meant, yes. of course PiL is lydon's band/brand .. but for that album, the musicians are all laswell-associates. e

quoted 12 lines p.i.l. - album (or "CD" or "Cassette")

> > >p.i.l. - album (or "CD" or "Cassette") > > >.not credited on the record anywhere, I don't think, but the band is > > >laswell's, with tony williams, jonas hellborg, malachi favors, steve > > >turre, ryuichi sakamoto & others. > > > > P.I.L is Bill Laswell's band?!?!? No, sahib, you are sadly mistaken. > > I was always under the impression that PIL was just John Lydon, and that > the musicians varied from album to album. So I took the above to mean > that Lydon worked with Laswell's band for that particular PIL album. > > Anig Browl

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On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Ethan Clauset wrote:

quoted 2 lines that's what I meant, yes. of course PiL is lydon's band/brand .. but for

> that's what I meant, yes. of course PiL is lydon's band/brand .. but for > that album, the musicians are all laswell-associates.

It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are considered to be "Laswell associates" (though I guess they brought it on themselves in some way). -rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are

> It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are > considered to be "Laswell associates" (though I guess they brought it on > themselves in some way).

I heartily agree with your first point (the sin of ignorance of one of the greatest drummers there's been and of a great bassist is almost unforgivable) and strenuously disagree with you on your second Rob - have you never got mixed up with the wrong people? Never held a dodgy opinion? My partner's car was written off recently when someone smashed into the back of her when she was waiting stationary at a red light - was it her fault just because she was sitting in a car? (...) All the best, Colin. _____________________________ "... and life is a song sung low and cool to rouse the gentle spirit." (Jeff Noon)

quoted 10 lines From: "R. Lim" <rlim@escape.com>

> From: "R. Lim" <rlim@escape.com> > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:47:13 -0400 (EDT) > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Re: bill laswell > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Ethan Clauset wrote: > >> that's what I meant, yes. of course PiL is lydon's band/brand .. but for >> that album, the musicians are all laswell-associates. >

quoted 8 lines -rob

> > -rob > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Colin Buttimer wrote:

quoted 7 lines It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are

> > It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are > > considered to be "Laswell associates" (though I guess they brought it on > > themselves in some way). > I heartily agree with your first point (the sin of ignorance of one of the > greatest drummers there's been and of a great bassist is almost > unforgivable) and strenuously disagree with you on your second Rob - have > you never got mixed up with the wrong people? Never held a dodgy opinion? My

Settle down, lad. Whatever their reasons for getting mixed up with the Laz, I'm sure they are men enough to accept responsibility for their decisions (as well they should). I never said that their associations in the 80s detracted from their considerable contributions to the existing body of music (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s unscathed?) -rob ps- for the record, I have in fact, NEVER held a dodgy opinion. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hello Rob

quoted 1 line Settle down, lad.

> Settle down, lad.

Er. I thought the '(...)' at the bottom of my email would happily signify irony - can't bring myself to use emoticons, you see.

quoted 2 lines (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s

> (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s > unscathed?)

Ooh um. Ronald Shannon Jackson? John Zorn? Ornette Coleman? Anthony Braxton? Miles Davis (except DooBop)? Herbie Hancock (er except Dis is Da Drum), Sun Ra?

quoted 1 line ps- for the record, I have in fact, NEVER held a dodgy opinion.

> ps- for the record, I have in fact, NEVER held a dodgy opinion.

Now I'd have to say your question definitely indicates a dodgy opinion... _____________________________ "... and life is a song sung low and cool to rouse the gentle spirit." (Jeff Noon) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Colin Buttimer wrote:

quoted 5 lines (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s

> > (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s > > unscathed?) > Ooh um. Ronald Shannon Jackson? John Zorn? Ornette Coleman? Anthony Braxton? > Miles Davis (except DooBop)? Herbie Hancock (er except Dis is Da Drum), Sun > Ra?

I think your exceptions kind of illustrate my point, which is that the 80s were a time in which a lot of jazz musicians got involved in rather dodgy endeavors (it was also the decade of the saxophone quartet fad, but that's neither here there- and yes, I know that a handful of musicians made some fairly good records in this style; I personally feel Braxton should be credited with inspiring this, just as he was for the late 70s burst of unbearable solo saxophone records). At any rate, take for example most jazz records on Gramavision, or the bulk of the Soul Note and Black Saint discographies of the middle-late part of the decade. On the underground front, the 80s marked the emergence of the "downtown" scene and related satellites, which had some good ideas (c.f. the early releases on the Bay Area Metalanguage label) that were promptly run into the ground in favor of pan-everything eclecticism and the dreaded world-beat influence. By the way, using auteurs like Braxton, Sun Ra and Ornette as paragons of a jazz trend is a little misleading, don't you think? (and by the way, I don't like Zorn). It's like using Confield as an example of why IDM isn't dead (when in fact, it demonstrates that IDM is dead by virtue of its existence, because it's not really recognizably IDM). -rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Well it's like using Email as an example of why the WEB isn't dead (when in fact, it demonstrates that the WEB is dead by virtue of its existence, because it's not really recognized as the WEB) hardy har har.... Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil" <gyaker@fragment.com> To: "IDM list" <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [idm] Re: bill laswell stole my mojo

quoted 13 lines the hell??

> > the hell?? > > > > On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, R. Lim wrote: > > > It's like using Confield as an example of why IDM isn't > > dead (when in fact, it demonstrates that IDM is dead by virtue of its > > existence, because it's not really recognizably IDM). > > > > -rob > >

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