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RE: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs, hair bands too! HEROIN!!!!!

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◇ merged from 2 subjects: art by assholes - miles davis and drugs · art by assholes - miles davis and drugs, hair bands too! heroin!!!!!
2000-09-14 18:43Gause, Brian RE: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs
2000-09-14 21:48Re: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs
└─ 2000-09-14 22:08Ian Pojman RE: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs, hair bands too! HEROIN!!!!!
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2000-09-14 18:43Gause, Brianhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0714529419/o/qid=968955931/sr=8-1/ref =aps_sr_b_1_3
From:
Gause, Brian
To:
Date:
Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:43:50 -0700
Subject:
RE: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs
permalink · <8F4C99C66D04D4118F580090272A7A2325D7D9@SECTORBASE1>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0714529419/o/qid=968955931/sr=8-1/ref =aps_sr_b_1_3/002-3571947-8192003 For those of you really curious about the role of drugs and disease in art, go read this book...brilliant stuff. Even an appendix with a list of composers, artists, writers, etc., listed by affliction/addiction. The list is more comprehensive than you think... Essentially, what most of history considers great art (whether it be picasso, dostoevsky, nietzsche or beethoven) comes from a place that isn't like everyday reality. Sometimes your brain just works differently and, in many ways, has the ability to create what so-called 'ordinary' people cannot see/hear/envision. It's true that you don't need drugs or disease to create beautiful things (whether they be books, music or paintings), but given the wealth of history, it's undeniable that both addiction and affliction can have massive creative side effects. As for drugs 'wasting' talent...you just can't get away with saying that Miles' talent was wasted with alcohol. First of all, it was his talent to waste, so it's not your business. Second of all, have you heard "Kind of Blue"? What more do you want? When you begin to think of the world in terms of quantity, rather than quality, you miss the genius of individual moments in time. I still don't understand how people can continue to look at the world like this, passing judgment from the superior knowledge of hindsight as if these matters were completely obvious all along. For those of you who believe the world is black and white, take a moment to consider that not everyone agrees with you. The world isn't as simple as it seems...especially from the outside. ---brian ------------------------ Brian W. Gause Senior Technical Writer SECTORBASE.com 568 Howard Street First Floor San Francisco, CA 94105 Direct: (415) 365-8203 Fax: (415) 365-8263 -----Original Message----- From: andrei@world.std.com [mailto:andrei@world.std.com] Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 11:17 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs Ian Pojman wrote:
quoted 2 lines this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind> this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind > everyone that Mozart died cause he was a massive alcoholic...
I thought he died of tuberculosis (or maybe I should say of "consumption") or one of those 18th century type illnesses.
quoted 1 line Look what drugs have done for music, and appreciate it.> Look what drugs have done for music, and appreciate it.
Yeah, you _should_ look at what drugs have done for music and look at all the wasted talent throughout history. Sure drugs can have certain effects on the creation of music (not speaking from personal experience), but artists compose amazing music because they're extremely talented, not because they were stoned or drunk while composing. And I think it's funny that some of the most zonked out music I know was composed by some pretty square people like all those post-WWII composers and people working at INA-GRM and what have you. That stuff sounds a lot more fucked up to me than any psychedelic nonsense I've heard. Check out Heinz Holliger's "Scardanelli-Zyklus", which deals with poet Friedrich Holderlin's descent into madness, if you wanna hear some real unearthly music. And if you see a picture of Holliger you'll see what a damn nerd he is. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-14 21:48andrei@world.std.com"Gause, Brian" wrote: > As for drugs 'wasting' talent...you just can't get away with sayin
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Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:48:21 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs
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"Gause, Brian" wrote:
quoted 3 lines As for drugs 'wasting' talent...you just can't get away with saying that> As for drugs 'wasting' talent...you just can't get away with saying that > Miles' talent was wasted with alcohol. First of all, it was his talent to > waste, so it's not your business.
Whateva...
quoted 1 line Second of all, have you heard "Kind of Blue"? What more do you want?> Second of all, have you heard "Kind of Blue"? What more do you want?
About a million fucking times, so what (no pun intended) ? Is that supposed to show me the amazing effects addiction can have on the creative act ? I think Miles had actually kicked his heroin habit a few years prior to making "Kind Of Blue". Miles made lots of other amazing albums and who knows what sort of mental/health state he was in when he recorded them. Listen to Blue Haze if you wanna hear Miles dealing with addiction. I was watching an interview with "jazz legend" and ex-drug consumer Lee Konitz recently and he was saying that music created under the influence needs to be listened to under the influence for it to sound as good as it did while you were creating it and that it usually sounds terrible when you listen back to it and you're not stoned.
quoted 7 lines When you begin to think of the world in terms of quantity, rather than quality, you> When you begin to think of the world in terms of quantity, rather than quality, you > miss the genius of individual moments in time. > I still don't understand how people can continue to look at the world like > this, passing judgment from the superior knowledge of hindsight as if these > matters were completely obvious all along. For those of you who believe the > world is black and white, take a moment to consider that not everyone agrees > with you. The world isn't as simple as it seems...especially from the outside.
You have much insight, wise one. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-14 22:08Ian Pojman> I was watching an interview with "jazz legend" and ex-drug > consumer Lee Konitz > recen
From:
Ian Pojman
To:
Date:
Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:08:43 -0500
Subject:
RE: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs, hair bands too! HEROIN!!!!!
Reply to:
Re: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs
permalink · <GNENLFEHEAMCLLIMHOOHIEPLCAAA.ian@webice.net>
quoted 9 lines I was watching an interview with "jazz legend" and ex-drug> I was watching an interview with "jazz legend" and ex-drug > consumer Lee Konitz > recently and he was saying that music created under the influence > needs to be > listened to under the influence for it to sound as good as it did > while you were > creating it and that it usually sounds terrible when you listen > back to it and you're > not stoned.
interesting point, but I strongly disagree and have already decided not to back myself up. when I'm stoned I feel as sober as ever. what difference, once again I implore, does it make how high you are? how drunk you are? how sober you are? I loathe heroin, absolutely LOATHE it. but you know what, digable planets are one of my favorite hip-hop groups, I dont care if they sell razor blades to fuckin 8 yo's. Trent Reznor SUCKED after he kicked heroin (ahah no attacks please). Im not trying to prove a point, im trying to point out something. btw. all you people talking about hair bands, seriously watch cannibal corpse play, other than on ace ventura. :DD peace, ian/delphi/// --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org