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Re: [idm] long live idm

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◇ merged from 2 subjects: lifejackets for lemmings · long live idm
2000-05-11 13:09: ruaridh : [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
2000-05-11 16:21Rjyan Kidwell Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
├─ 2000-05-11 17:01Bill Wright Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
└─ 2000-05-11 18:49Alex Reynolds [idm] long live idm
2000-05-11 19:00Re: [idm] long live idm
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2000-05-11 13:09: ruaridh :Well, i had hoped that since most arguments of this type on the IDM list degenerate into n
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Thu, 11 May 2000 14:09:55 BST
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[idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
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Well, i had hoped that since most arguments of this type on the IDM list degenerate into name-calling and petty bickering, i might get to use some of my choicer insulting epithets. But if you do insist on responding with well-thought out replies... :)
quoted 3 lines Because:>Because: > > -- the white vinyl is stamped with a black label
I agree this was, as i siad previously, *at the very least* bad judgement. Thus i cannot answer; personally i would be interested to hear VVMs justification. I believe they're on the list, or at least have access to it....
quoted 1 line -- the label notes read like some kid auditioning to be a VJ> -- the label notes read like some kid auditioning to be a VJ
Well forgive my pre-conceptions, but i was under the impression that this was just Kid 606s way. Maybe it was meant to be satire, but i didnt even consider it until i read your post. Not everyone expresses themsleves in the same way.
quoted 2 lines -- the music itself seems pretty tame, in comparison with the >original> -- the music itself seems pretty tame, in comparison with the >original >(and that's a statement of a kind in its own right)
Well sure, if you dont like it. But i do think, although nothing close to the originals raw power, that this is his attempt to capture some of it. It is "angry-sounding", for want of a better metaphor. For me, its sufficient to indicate his reverence.
quoted 4 lines Feel free to read my reviews in Grooves and on the list archives if >you're>Feel free to read my reviews in Grooves and on the list archives if >you're >truly interested in what I write when I do like something. If >anything, I >could be accused of over-analyzing everything, good or bad. And I >tend to >give more thumbs up than down.
I'm well aware of your reviews, articles etc., and in the main enjoy them, if not always agreeing. But my point still remains; would you even have *considered* the possibility that this record was something other than tribute if you had actually liked it? Thats not a critique of you reviewing style, merely a genuinely puzzled question.
quoted 3 lines Yes, I think it is a highly relevant issue in this era of well-paid,>Yes, I think it is a highly relevant issue in this era of well-paid, >multi-platinum, hyphenated, guitar-rap acts. If this NWA remix is a >satirical work, my hat goes off to Mr. Depedro.
Well, i would agree if this were the first few bars of "Straight Outta.." looped with "Mr. Depedro" copying the lyrics over the top, on a major label with lots of publicity. Then it would be much easier to assume a cynical stance. But i think that as this is a limited run record on an obscure label, on 7" vinyl, that the release is really just a fan thing; out of love, not manipulation. I hardly see it, or any other similar release for that matter, soundtracking the next Gap ad.
quoted 4 lines It's ironic that an independent like V/VM inspires this kind of >worship.>It's ironic that an independent like V/VM inspires this kind of >worship. >Didn't they promise to burn a bunch of IDM rareties awhile back in a >blaze >of righteous fire? I just dislike hypocrisy. More importantly, I do >not >respect the musical content of their stuff.
Once again, i offer no kind of worship. I like a good record. (And i apologise for being childishly pedantic, but it was Diskono who were going to burn the rarities). If you dont like it, then fine. But simply saying "i dont like it" should be enough without having to create laborious justifications.
quoted 6 lines I did not decide to buy (or decide not to buy) Kid606's "Straight >Outta>I did not decide to buy (or decide not to buy) Kid606's "Straight >Outta >Compton" based on whether it was on V/VM. In fact, I didn't know it >was >published through V/VM until I had it in my hands and looked at it. I >bought it because it was an NWA remix project that sounded like a >good >idea >on paper.
My point was that the strength of your critiscism was perhaps based on the apparent "hype" surrounding the label.
quoted 3 lines Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them >Warp>Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them >Warp >copycats. Yes, they owe a debt to their forerunners across the pond. >But >they have their own voice.
I didnt say they were Warp copycats. I've listened to all their releases since the first PBO 12" and, that release aside, have disliked most of them as i fell they, like the less imaginative MAS releases, owe more than a debt to Autechre.
quoted 6 lines I'll agree that there is a much wider range of artists putting out >good>I'll agree that there is a much wider range of artists putting out >good >releases, and Schematic's artists are only a few among the bunch.> > >"Lily.." >was a real treat, certainly. I was really impressed with Phoenicia, >Delarosa+Asora, and 09's tracks, which sounded nothing like Autechre >of >any era.
As it happens the 09 and R Devine tracks on "Lily.." were much more to my taste than usual. I just loathed the other tracks with a passion. ________________________________________________________ "I believe in the modern world. I believe in the automobile, and the Charleston, and the dry martini. I represent Invisibilism and *my* Gods have electric light bulbs for eyes. My Gods run on internal combustion engines." - Lady Edith Manning, 1924 R xx thevillageorchestra@hotmail.com Marcia Blaine Industries / Metal-On-Metal Records http://websites.ntl.com/~metal-on-metal/ __________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-11 16:21Rjyan Kidwellcheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... this is a great conversation. > >Just because they p
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Rjyan Kidwell
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: ruaridh : , , Rjyan Kidwell
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Thu, 11 May 2000 12:21:14 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <004a01bfbb64$ef1333c0$6725dc80@RES.JHU.EDU>
cheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... this is a great conversation.
quoted 6 lines Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them >Warp> >Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them >Warp > >copycats. Yes, they owe a debt to their forerunners across the pond. >But > >they have their own voice. > > I didnt say they were Warp copycats. I've listened to all their releases > since the first PBO 12" and, that release aside, have disliked most of
them
quoted 1 line as i fell they, like the less imaginative MAS releases, owe more than a> as i fell they, like the less imaginative MAS releases, owe more than a
debt
quoted 1 line to Autechre.> to Autechre.
now, i'm sorry to throw another post into the fray on this but... my particular problem with this whole "Ae clone" business is that almost everyone levels this criticism inconsistently. as you said, alex, they "owe more than a debt to Autechre," but they don't get the dreaded label of "Autechre clones." a lot of people on this list seem to agree with you, i think. which sort of puzzles me... it seems that the only time people really voice their angst against the "autechre clones" is whenever someone wants to 1) rail against how shitty "the list's tastes" are or how shitty "IDM is nowadays," in order to feel self-righteous or cutting-edge in their own musical taste, or 2) explain how great X label or group (sometimes their OWN group our label) is because they DON'T sound like "Autechre clones." that makes the whole thing suspect to begin with, for me. it seems like the giveaway way to build up yourself/someone else on the list nowadays... most often i see people just blindly attacking "Ae clones" with no specific instances of who these "Ae clones" are. when they DO give specifics, i bet you 9 times out of 10 they mention funkstrorung. funkstorung has been dissed by autechre, and for a long time has caught heat on this list for sounding like Autechre. and not without a certain amount of justification, of course.. they, as alex has put it, "owe more than a debt to Autechre." but most importantly, i think it's the precedent set on this list that has people cutting on them for being an Ae clone left and right. and i seriously think it's mostly the vocal elite on this list who have such a huge problem with funkstorung. i mean,... Funkstorung sell records. lots of records. so who else goes on this supposedly endless list of "ae clones?" the people using this phrase might be referring to the many artists on mp3.com with the "mxkkr.tolop" track titles and admitted influence by Autechre, but no one is seriously going to harp on that crazy circus which is mp3.com, it makes you seem kind of pathetic. Boards were brought up recently, but quickly dispelled. Boards are too respected, so their debt/similarity/whatever to Ae is irrelevant, apparently. While was very quickly brought up and put down when "lock" came out... i figure since he was an unsigned, unproven artist he was fair game for getting the "Scarlet A," but the fact that he's on Choc Ind, a label you just don't dis around here, that complicated the situation. same goes for Schematic/Phoenecia/Richard Devine... you just DONT talk smack about those guys on the list, at least not to imply they are an "ae clone" in the vindictive way people say it about Funkstorung or any of these other eh. just my idea. i'm sure this isn't a 100% correct explanation of the "Ae clone" witch trials going on here, but maybe something to be considered. -rk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-11 17:01Bill WrightWhy aren't there any "Aphex clones"? Don't tell me that there aren't more people out there
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Bill Wright
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Thu, 11 May 2000 13:01:19 -0400
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Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <4.2.2.20000511125504.00b7e8a0@mail.clemson.edu>
Why aren't there any "Aphex clones"? Don't tell me that there aren't more people out there who respect Aphex Twin a whole lot more than Autechre (maybe in the narrow mindset of this list, we may not think it is true, but in general I think it is very true). Maybe because what Aphex is doing is impossible to even hint at, much less copy. Same deal with Boards of Canada--I don't think their will be any "BoC clones". Why? Because Autechre is a lot easier to copy simply because they focus on the technical rather than emotional side of their music--or at least this is what people who think there are "Autechre Clones" seem to notice.
quoted 6 lines now, i'm sorry to throw another post into the fray on this but...>now, i'm sorry to throw another post into the fray on this but... >my particular problem with this whole "Ae clone" business is that almost >everyone levels this criticism inconsistently. as you said, alex, they "owe >more than a debt to Autechre," but they don't get the dreaded label of >"Autechre clones." a lot of people on this list seem to agree with you, i >think. which sort of puzzles me...
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2000-05-11 18:49Alex ReynoldsAt 12:21 PM -0400 5/11/00, Rjyan Kidwell wrote: >cheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... thi
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Alex Reynolds
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Rjyan Kidwell , : ruaridh : ,
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Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:49:07 -0400
Subject:
[idm] long live idm
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <l03130308b540a645b6c9@[130.91.128.171]>
At 12:21 PM -0400 5/11/00, Rjyan Kidwell wrote:
quoted 8 lines cheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... this is a great conversation.>cheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... this is a great conversation. >... >now, i'm sorry to throw another post into the fray on this but... >my particular problem with this whole "Ae clone" business is that almost >everyone levels this criticism inconsistently. as you said, alex, they "owe >more than a debt to Autechre," but they don't get the dreaded label of >"Autechre clones." a lot of people on this list seem to agree with you, i >think. which sort of puzzles me...
I'm not sure I said what you attributed to me; I think that was ruaridh. In any case, I don't think Schematic owes a debt to Autechre specifically, although Ae certainly counts as a major influence. I think Schematic artists, and all current North American electronic musicians for that matter, owe a great deal to the pioneering work done by the whole lot of UK artists that had their turn in Warp/Skam/Clear/Ninja Tune's history. In turn, those fellows owe a lot to the Eno, Kraftwerk, Stockhausen, and Krautrock era of the 60s and 70s. This has been said before. Art is an interpretive, evolving organic process, and this is no different. So these guys all put electronic sound on the map for the benefit of the American audience, but I wouldn't say that Aphex is a blatant carbon copy of Eno, any more than I would say Devine is a xerox of Ae. I mean, that's silly. I can't and won't comment on Funkstoerung as I only have a couple of their releases and I can't say I'm too impressed. To prevent a "why are you baggin' on my deutschboys" flame war from starting, I'll just leave it at that.
quoted 3 lines DON'T sound like "Autechre clones." that makes the whole thing suspect to>DON'T sound like "Autechre clones." that makes the whole thing suspect to >begin with, for me. it seems like the giveaway way to build up >yourself/someone else on the list nowadays...
I'll reiterate my former proposal to the list, a little more seriously now: Take a day off the IDM list for reflective meditation. You guys are lucky enough to be born in a time period when you have enough money and enough sense to appreciate this music for what it is. Relax and enjoy. I think I'll start a rock band -- I'll call it, "The Autechre Clones". I can almost see the ladies in the front row sigh in unison as I pull off yet another fractal-based air guitar solo, all while grimacing melodically in a 7/8 time signature.
quoted 3 lines seem kind of pathetic. Boards were brought up recently, but quickly>seem kind of pathetic. Boards were brought up recently, but quickly >dispelled. Boards are too respected, so their debt/similarity/whatever to Ae >is irrelevant, apparently.
Hey, wow, hold on just a second. How do Boards sound like Autechre? This is all shocking news to me. Their "hiscores" album came out around the same time as Gescom's "Key Nell" EP -- both were groundbreaking and totally dissimilar. (?) Yrs, Alex Alex Reynolds SAS Computing / Biology University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104-6228 V +1 215 573.2818 / F +1 215 898.8780 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~reynolda/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-11 19:00Cichli@aol.com> I think I'll start a rock band -- I'll call it, "The Autechre Clones". I > can almost se
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Thu, 11 May 2000 15:00:26 EDT
Subject:
Re: [idm] long live idm
permalink · <22.5a7818d.264c5d4a@aol.com>
quoted 4 lines I think I'll start a rock band -- I'll call it, "The Autechre Clones".> I think I'll start a rock band -- I'll call it, "The Autechre Clones". I > can almost see the ladies in the front row sigh in unison as I pull off yet > another fractal-based air guitar solo, all while grimacing melodically in a > 7/8 time signature.
wouldn't that be a sight. you make it sound so cheesy that now i almost dont want to say that i do stuff like that. well i use 7/8 time sig and mathematically-based guitar lines at least. i do wanna try a cover of "corc" off lp5 with a live band though. :jason (ecux http:www.zenapolae.com) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org