IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 1 line I think its kind of interesting how Venetian Snares came to be part

>I think its kind of interesting how Venetian Snares came to be part

of

quoted 2 lines "IDM".

>"IDM". >Because really before snares's stuff came out on planet-mu, not

much

quoted 1 line hardcore was really included in the realm of "IDM". Snares was

>hardcore was really included in the realm of "IDM". Snares was

just

quoted 1 line some new variant from the hardcore scene.

>some new variant from the hardcore scene.

i don't know what influences VS actually has, but to me and the people i've conversed with, they're regarded as being in the "distorted electro" camp that could be considered the next generation of industrial dance, centered around labels like ant-zen, hymen, spectrew, and hands. i'm guessing these artists are people who grew up liking nitzer ebb, meat beat manifesto, and skinny puppy's 'vivisect vi' as much as they do throbbing gristle and merzbow.

quoted 2 lines But now, alot of kids will

>But now, alot of kids will >say they like idm..."you know, like venetian snares, aphex,

autechre".

quoted 1 line Its just an interesting shift.

>Its just an interesting shift.

with aphex twin's "come to daddy" and his remixes for NIN and a few others, james attracted the attention of the industrial/ebm crowd i mentioned above. he certainly caught my attention. prior to the chris cunningham video, my impression of AT was a stylised logo which said "slick soulless cold electronic" and the knowledge that everyone and his brother was namedropping 'ambient v2'. james has also dabbled in hardcore-ish, gabba-influenced insanity, and some people just like their music hard-sounding, whatever form that may take. i'd also submit that autechre's beats and glitches have gotten a lot harder-sounding over the years, the so-called "number-crunching" and glitchy sounds could very well appeal to the same types of ears that enjoy the clanking metal of einsturzende neubauten or bring to mind a hyper-edited version of the electroacoustic soundscapes of nurse with wound and organum. d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I was going to say, the appeal to VS is the industrial-ish sound and it's always nice to find artists in the "IDM" genre who are playing with similar sound. Kill Memory Crash released a neat 6 song cd/ep on ghostly earlier this yeah that has some of the similar sounds, although more ebmish or what have you. also, interviewed in the current issue of "industrial nation" otto von schirach said he would be working with skinny puppy on their new release. (I'm not sure if this is old news for anyone out there so i figured i would throw it out there) cevin key of skinny puppy was really into wat otto von schirach was doing and got in contact etc. most of key's stuff has always had overlap in the idm/industrial realms, especially what he did as plateau. his most recent release "the dragon experience" is also worth checking out. peace. gir. --------------------------------------------------- | ___ ___ | | \ \_/ / | | | | I don't have to explain my art to you.| | | O | | | / o_o \ www.angstmonster.org | | \/|| ||\/ | | "" "" | --------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, chthonic wrote:

quoted 51 lines I think its kind of interesting how Venetian Snares came to be part

> > >I think its kind of interesting how Venetian Snares came to be part > of > >"IDM". > >Because really before snares's stuff came out on planet-mu, not > much > >hardcore was really included in the realm of "IDM". Snares was > just > >some new variant from the hardcore scene. > > i don't know what influences VS actually has, but to me and the > people i've conversed with, they're regarded as being in the > "distorted electro" camp that could be considered the next > generation of industrial dance, centered around labels like > ant-zen, hymen, spectrew, and hands. i'm guessing these artists > are people who grew up liking nitzer ebb, meat beat manifesto, > and skinny puppy's 'vivisect vi' as much as they do throbbing gristle > and merzbow. > > > >But now, alot of kids will > >say they like idm..."you know, like venetian snares, aphex, > autechre". > >Its just an interesting shift. > > with aphex twin's "come to daddy" and his remixes for NIN and a > few others, james attracted the attention of the industrial/ebm > crowd i mentioned above. he certainly caught my attention. prior > to the chris cunningham video, my impression of AT was a stylised > logo which said "slick soulless cold electronic" and the knowledge > that everyone and his brother was namedropping 'ambient v2'. > james has also dabbled in hardcore-ish, gabba-influenced > insanity, and some people just like their music hard-sounding, > whatever form that may take. > > i'd also submit that autechre's beats and glitches have gotten a lot > harder-sounding over the years, the so-called "number-crunching" > and glitchy sounds could very well appeal to the same types of > ears that enjoy the clanking metal of einsturzende neubauten or > bring to mind a hyper-edited version of the electroacoustic > soundscapes of nurse with wound and organum. > > > d. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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quoted 13 lines I think its kind of interesting how Venetian Snares came to be part

> >I think its kind of interesting how Venetian Snares came to be part > of "IDM".Because really before snares's stuff came out on planet-mu, not > much hardcore was really included in the realm of "IDM". Snares was > just some new variant from the hardcore scene. > > i don't know what influences VS actually has, but to me and the > people i've conversed with, they're regarded as being in the > "distorted electro" camp that could be considered the next > generation of industrial dance, centered around labels like > ant-zen, hymen, spectrew, and hands. i'm guessing these artists > are people who grew up liking nitzer ebb, meat beat manifesto, > and skinny puppy's 'vivisect vi' as much as they do throbbing gristle > and merzbow.

Interesting even more that you have that perspective. Releasing on hymen snares also got the connection to the power noise scene. But really before that there weren't any breakcore/hardcore artists associated with that scene... I know aaron likes alot of different music, but before he blew up he was most connected to the midwest hardcore scene - his first releases were on isolate, history of the future, addict, and before that he made alot of .mod music that you might loosely consider hardcore. Hardcore as in Delta9, Tron, Industrial Strength... In my experience, the hardcore scene was definitely interested and influenced by 80's "industrial", but it wasn't culturally a continuation of it. Its one of those things that rose out of many influences, but isn't the direct child of any of them. Of course, by the end of the 90's, hardcore had its own tired forms that people who were into that scene were getting tired of and trying to break out of. Which actually has been a great thing for the "hardsounds" scene in the past few years. The degree of mutation, and incorporation of different sounds, from breakbeats, to heavy processing, to more abstract structures and more melody - from people like doormouse, snares, tarmvred, emotional joystick, curtis chip... has really been its saving grace. When it comes down to it, aaron is an individual, and not really bound by any kind of limits of a scene.

quoted 9 lines with aphex twin's "come to daddy" and his remixes for NIN and a

> with aphex twin's "come to daddy" and his remixes for NIN and a > few others, james attracted the attention of the industrial/ebm > crowd i mentioned above. he certainly caught my attention. prior > to the chris cunningham video, my impression of AT was a stylised > logo which said "slick soulless cold electronic" and the knowledge > that everyone and his brother was namedropping 'ambient v2'. > james has also dabbled in hardcore-ish, gabba-influenced > insanity, and some people just like their music hard-sounding, > whatever form that may take.

this is true. the thread has come up here and other places many times that people got into idm through aphex twin, remixes of nin particular and the come to daddy video. its funny how something thats really a minor blip in popular culture can have a big effect on a small subculture.

quoted 6 lines i'd also submit that autechre's beats and glitches have gotten a lot

> i'd also submit that autechre's beats and glitches have gotten a lot > harder-sounding over the years, the so-called "number-crunching" > and glitchy sounds could very well appeal to the same types of > ears that enjoy the clanking metal of einsturzende neubauten or > bring to mind a hyper-edited version of the electroacoustic > soundscapes of nurse with wound and organum.

most definitely, in theory. i think alot of people into abstract/noisy beats have at the very least flirted with the stuff you mention, if not been big instrial heads in a previous life. although i find that younger folks (i'm 26) very likely have never been exposed to it. its funny, because in the world of the internet, antzen/hymen, hands etc is the continuation of the industrial scene. but most if the self described industrial kids are more into trancy ebm, or some ever-repeating early 90's flavor aggro. its sort of a time warp that never really progresses. - cutups --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines I know aaron likes alot of different music,

>I know aaron likes alot of different music, >he made alot of .mod music that you might loosely consider

hardcore.

quoted 1 line Hardcore as in Delta9, Tron, Industrial Strength...

>Hardcore as in Delta9, Tron, Industrial Strength...

hardcore "techno" you mean. i assumed in this context you meant that. normally when someone says hardcore i think of hardcore punk.

quoted 3 lines In my experience, the hardcore scene was definitely interested

>In my experience, the hardcore scene was definitely interested >and influenced by 80's "industrial", but it wasn't culturally >a continuation of it.

fair enough. i'd assumed it was a continuation of harsher forms of techno that arose as ecstasy began to contain more amphetemines (and even heroin). as a result, many techno clubs got meaner and uglier, so did the music. that was what i heard anyway. i wasn't at those clubs, so i don't know.

quoted 6 lines Which actually has been a great thing for the "hardsounds" scene

>Which actually has been a great thing for the "hardsounds" scene >in the past few years. The degree of mutation, and incorporation >of different sounds, from breakbeats, to heavy processing, to >more abstract structures and more melody - from people like >doormouse, snares, tarmvred, emotional joystick, curtis chip... >has really been its saving grace.

i actually dislike a lot of jungle and breakbeat and related stuff, but the other genres it's influenced and splintered into have been really interesting.

quoted 2 lines When it comes down to it, aaron is an individual,

>When it comes down to it, aaron is an individual, >and not really bound by any kind of limits of a scene.

the best way to be.

quoted 5 lines the thread has come up here and other places many

>the thread has come up here and other places many >times that people got into idm through aphex twin, remixes of nin >particular and the come to daddy video. its funny how something >thats really a minor blip in popular culture can have a big effect >on a small subculture.

in addition to the aphex connection, i actually heard autechre's 'amber' on cassette(!) in a car back in '94 and really liked it but forgot about it for the next 7 years.

quoted 1 line i'd also submit that autechre's beats and glitches have gotten a

>> i'd also submit that autechre's beats and glitches have gotten a

lot

quoted 1 line harder-sounding over the years, the so-called

>> harder-sounding over the years, the so-called

"number-crunching"

quoted 9 lines and glitchy sounds could very well appeal to the same types of

>> and glitchy sounds could very well appeal to the same types of >> ears that enjoy the clanking metal of einsturzende neubauten or >> bring to mind a hyper-edited version of the electroacoustic >> soundscapes of nurse with wound and organum. > >most definitely, in theory. i think alot of people into abstract/noisy >beats >have at the very least flirted with the stuff you mention, if not been >big instrial heads in a previous life. although i find that younger

folks

quoted 1 line (i'm 26) very likely have never been exposed to it.

>(i'm 26) very likely have never been exposed to it.

it depends on who you talk to. some stuff transcends age and generations blur. X or Y? who gives a rats' arse.

quoted 1 line its funny, because in the world of the internet, antzen/hymen,

>its funny, because in the world of the internet, antzen/hymen,

hands etc

quoted 1 line is the continuation of the industrial scene. but most if the self

>is the continuation of the industrial scene. but most if the self

described

quoted 3 lines industrial kids are more into trancy ebm, or some ever-repeating

>industrial kids are more into trancy ebm, or some ever-repeating >early 90's flavor aggro. its sort of a time warp that never really >progresses.

that's probably true. *someone* must be buying all those apoptygma berzerk and wumpscut CDs. not i. it also goes to show the narrowness of anyone who is a "self-described" follower of a particular genre or subcluture and little (if anything) else. d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"N. Graham Worthington" <nworth1@gl.umbc.edu> said:

quoted 3 lines the part about music being

>the part about music being >so drastically affected by it is total bunk. I suppose Mr. Simon >Reynolds' appearance in "Modulations" is partly to blame, since

he

quoted 1 line reiterated (fabricated?) it there.

>reiterated (fabricated?) it there.

i had already read that in a few articles, in particular one about the rave scene in england in the early 90's. i could see it happening, it doesn't seem totally out of the realm of possibility. of course, that's assuming the musicians are actually going to the clubs and a) seeing things get nastier and that people were going for harder, faster tracks, and/or b) the musicians were taking this crappier version of e (or x) themselves. it's just as possible that neither of those things ever happened, hence my disclaimer (although i do own a copy of 'modulations' the book).

quoted 2 lines And for the record I think X is crap. Whether or not it made music

>And for the record I think X is crap. Whether or not it made music >"meaner and uglier."

never tried it, wouldn't know. d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Friday, September 12, 2003, at 05:22 PM, chthonic wrote:

quoted 18 lines "N. Graham Worthington" <nworth1@gl.umbc.edu> said:

> "N. Graham Worthington" <nworth1@gl.umbc.edu> said: > > >> the part about music being >> so drastically affected by it is total bunk. I suppose Mr. Simon >> Reynolds' appearance in "Modulations" is partly to blame, since >> he reiterated (fabricated?) it there. > > i had already read that in a few articles, in particular one about the > rave scene in england in the early 90's. i could see it happening, it > doesn't seem totally out of the realm of possibility. of course, > that's > assuming the musicians are actually going to the clubs and a) > seeing things get nastier and that people were going for harder, > faster tracks, and/or b) the musicians were taking this crappier > version of e (or x) themselves. it's just as possible that neither of > those things ever happened, hence my disclaimer (although i do > own a copy of 'modulations' the book).

I think it's more likely that everyone killed their serotonin reserves by chomping ecstasy in the early 90s, and by the mid-90s the drugs didn't work anymore and they had a nice mental imbalance to make them irritable and depressed all the time. That's my theory anyway. It seems to happen to every new generation of ravers/clubbers in a nice, predictable cycle. So happy hardcore gave way to jungle, epic trance to "progressive", hard house to hard techno. Funny that. -- Tim Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org