IDM Mailing Archive

Another consideration... Indie labels are not adverse to ripping artists off. They are unfortunately not all as uncorrupt as we'd perhaps ike to believe. We (Portal) have lost more revenue through being ripped off by small indie labels than we ever have by file sharing, mp3 etc. Honestly, how many bands that are discussed on this list are effected by "pirating"? Not many, I'd imagine. Speaking as a musician, if anyone cares enough about our music to copy and distribute it more widely, then I'm pleased that more people may get to hear it. I heard most music I got into by taping things from my local record library. It opened my eyes to music like Coil, Kraftwerk and Cindytalk - bands whose records I simply couldn't afford to buy when I was 14 or 15. Also, mass "illegal" copying and duplication I'm sure has sod all impact on the likes of Sony, EMI, Virgin. Arguably, the "pirates" need the money more... Scott PORTAL www.portal.freeuk.com MAKE MINE MUSIC portal*yellow6*schengen*epic 45*innerise*july skies*avrocar www.makeminemusic.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Sinfield <portal@freeuk.com>

quoted 2 lines Honestly, how many bands that are discussed on this list are effected by

> Honestly, how many bands that are discussed on this list are effected by > "pirating"? Not many, I'd imagine.

huh? you nuts? you know how many people i know that download complete albums as mp3s from idm artists on every label from planet-u to warp to plug research and never buy a damn thing? a lot. i personally don't download shit, i buy everything, but i've always been like that.... i also would rather wait to buy a release than to download it two months early as an mp3, but that's a different story... -kiya iamacopierltd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

kiya "i am a copier" babzani wrote:

quoted 15 lines ----- Original Message -----

>----- Original Message ----- >From: Scott Sinfield <portal@freeuk.com> > > > >>Honestly, how many bands that are discussed on this list are effected by >>"pirating"? Not many, I'd imagine. >> >> > >huh? >you nuts? >you know how many people i know that download complete albums as mp3s from idm artists on every >label from planet-u to warp to plug research and never buy a damn thing? a lot. >

so what? if i download every album ever released, it still affects noone's bottom line. i buy what i can afford and the number of mp3z i download doesnt impact that at all. thereis a compelling argument that in fact it strengthens many artists bottom line since i dont randomly buy cd's of music i dont already know anymore (having been burned too many tiems by crappy "product") ... i can't even count how many albums i've bought purely because i downloaded *gasp* whole albums from slsk. i am not alone.

quoted 4 lines i personally don't download shit, i buy everything, but i've always been like th

>i personally don't download shit, i buy everything, but i've always been like that.... >i also would rather wait to buy a release than to download it two months early as an mp3, but that's >a different story... >

cool, more power to ya :)

quoted 11 lines -kiya

> >-kiya >iamacopierltd. > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

-- ____________________________________________________ independent u.s. drum'n'bass -- http://vitriolix.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i hate to wade into this flame-war mid-thread, but this is one point from the anti-mp3 argument that bugs me. On Tue, Mar 11, 2003 at 07:54:52PM -0600, c wrote:

quoted 1 line every copy you download is the equivalent of what you would have otherwise purchased

> every copy you download is the equivalent of what you would have otherwise purchased

i believe this line above is untrue. i think that, for a lot of people, if the mp3s weren't available, the music simply wouldn't be listened to. from an artist's persective, doesn't it make more sense to not sell an album and have a listener than to not sell an album and not have a listener? after all, with the music we listen to, oftentimes if you're not a listener in the first place you're not going to buy an album period. (i'm not saying that all artists use the above line of reasoning... i mean, i'm not an artist and i definitely wouldn't be willing to put the above logic into anyone's mouth... but it doesn't kinda make sense, doesn't it?) the way i look at things, i, like many (all?) others on this list have a very finite (not just finite, _very_ finite) cd budget. but i like to listen to a lot of music... so i download mp3s. some of what i download i like a lot, so i go out of my way to buy at least one real, physical album from that artist. but i still listen to mp3s by artists that i haven't bought albums from... i know that without some cd buying on my part, i'm "starving the artist"... however, one can only support a $30-bucks-an-import cd-buying habit for so long. so, i use a certain amount of moral flexibility (and i use that in a good way) and listen to music that i like while paying for as much as i can. i figure that's a good way of maintaining an optimal happiness-level for all involved. n'est-ce pas? of course, you will still have people that pay for everything they listen to, and those that pay nothing. i figure that with a good balance of all three types of people, good music will continue to be made and listened to. and isn't that what this is all about? (<- "won't someone think of the fricken' children?) __michal

quoted 26 lines the bottom line is less physical copies sold. hurts the artist, and label.

> the bottom line is less physical copies sold. hurts the artist, and label. > > im an artist, and a very small one at that, and i saw where a guy was selling an mp3 copy of my cd (along > with others) for money. not only was he wrong for copying it, whoever bought it was wrong as well. > > im curious if the folks who are all for stealing artist and label music are musicians or label owners > themselves ? > > > Josh Steiner wrote: > > > > > > so what? if i download every album ever released, it still affects > > noone's bottom line. i buy what i can afford and the number of mp3z i > > download doesnt impact that at all. thereis a compelling argument that > > in fact it strengthens many artists bottom line since i dont randomly > > buy cd's of music i dont already know anymore (having been burned too > > many tiems by crappy "product") ... i can't even count how many albums > > i've bought purely because i downloaded *gasp* whole albums from slsk. > > i am not alone. > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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So, do all you silly people who think breaking copyright laws = stealing (which it doesn't; because of both the meaning of the verb 'to steal' and the fact the laws regarding theft are not the same as the laws regarding copyright) think that second hand music shops should be illegal? Before I had the means to download rare/out of print items, second hand shops in London were the only place I could get them (and being from Dublin obviously restricted my ability to get them even further). The reason they are not illegal (with respect to copyright law) is that the original owner no longer possesses the item and (with respect to theft law) I've paid the shop for the product.... But wait!! I'm now in possession of a piece of music, and the artist hasn't been paid! This is exactly the same result we get when I download an album from soulseek. So according to you (the silly people) second hand record shops are morally indefensible. The reasoning behind copyright law is so full of logical inconsistencies it needs to be replaced.

quoted 2 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: c [mailto:c@scarcelight.com]

...

quoted 3 lines every copy you download is the equivalent of what you would have otherwise purchased

> > every copy you download is the equivalent of what you would have otherwise purchased > the bottom line is less physical copies sold. hurts the artist, and label.

No it's not; in the last month alone I've downloaded roughly 5CDR's worth of music... (Half of which has been from artists who are now dead btw). I wouldn't have had the money to purchase these items, so if I didn't download them I still wouldn't have bought them... I wouldn't have bought anything, because I have no money [ poor me :( ]. When I get the money, i'll probably spend around ?150 at warpmart, which should appease my guilty conscience for a while longer... I haven't actually bought a CD since November.

quoted 6 lines im an artist, and a very small one at that, and i saw where a guy was selling an mp3

> im an artist, and a very small one at that, and i saw where a guy was selling an mp3 > copy of my cd (along with others) for money. not only was he wrong for copying it, > whoever bought it was wrong as well. > > im curious if the folks who are all for stealing artist and label music are musicians > or label owners themselves ?

First, I'll again point out your incorrect use of the word 'stealing' and then answer the question... I'm also a musician (but an even smaller one than you, I've yet to release a single track) but really wouldn't give a shit if anyone infringes my copyright as long as they don't make any money from it (in fact I probably wouldn't even copyright my work, just apply some alternative - someone posted something about this here recently). It would actually make me quite happy if I were to find out that 1000's of people had downloaded my (currently nonexistent) released music. skism... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines every copy you download is the equivalent of what you would have

> every copy you download is the equivalent of what you would have > otherwise purchased the bottom line is less physical copies sold. hurts > the artist, and label.

evry shit album prodced by somone previsly thot to be a good musicn is a theft of my hrd-earned money................mp3 d/ls allow a pre-listn and prevent my wallet from being raided by electr-0wankery --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org